Trump's disrespect of military family

[normiss 718]

The President yesterday threatened he had "proof" that he didn't say what reports said he did.
Today, his chief of staff said he said it.

[DJL 232]

This is all politicizing something that shouldn't be political. The President shouldn't have to commit to what is becoming hollow political theatrics every time a soldier dies. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but soldiers die and it's not the President's place to personally reach out their families. Besides, he obviously does a shit job at it. This country has turned soldiers into political pawns and it's bullshit.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[normiss 718]

Trump created the politicizing of the Gold Star families.
I agree, it IS bullshit.
Especially the way he fumbles everything.

[normiss 718]

Although I did just realize....
GOP-controlled Congress investigated 4 dead in Benghazi for 853 days.
GOP-controlled Congress investigated 4 dead in Niger for 0 days.

I suppose it pre-dates Donny though he has embraced it as well.

[Blacksmith311 0]

If he said it or not, whats the context? There are two ways it can go.

Example 1:
"Johnny died in the war, ooh well he knew what he signed up for too bad"

Example 2:
"Johnny died in the war, he knew what he signed up for and the price could be death to defend his country, what a hero"

Without the context, and knowing trumps patriotism I bet it was more like example 2 has i have heard that exact statement before from others when someone was PRAISING a fallen warrior. That they knew the cost when they signed on the line, and was happy to die for other Americans.

Just my thoughts on it.

[mistercwood 287]

Blacksmith311

and knowing trumps patriotism

I agree that context is important, but you lost me here.

Trump is not a patriot, his entire history is about putting Trump's interest ahead of all others. The only times he demonstrates anything close to patriotism is when it will directly benefit him personally.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[jakee 1,319]

normiss

The President yesterday threatened he had "proof" that he didn't say what reports said he did.
Today, his chief of staff said he said it.

And his spokeswoman said there was no proof either way.

Could you make it up? If Armando Ianucci started writing these lines for Malcolm Tucker or Selina Meyer would he stop half way through and say no, this is just too ridiculous?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,319]

Blacksmith311

Without the context,

What about the context that a member of the immediate family said it felt disrespectful?

Quote

and knowing trumps patriotism

What do you know about Trump's patriotism? What patriotism has he ever displayed?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,679]

>Without the context, and knowing trumps patriotism

Going by his record, Trump's only "patriotism" has been to himself. Keep in mind that Trump is a draft dodger who claimed he was too debilitated by bone spurs to serve. He then went on to play baseball, tennis and squash.

>i have heard that exact statement before from others when someone was PRAISING a fallen warrior.

Except:

1) Trump didn't say it was taken out of context or that he said it but meant it as praise. He said he never said that, period. He claimed that twice. So either he is lying, or the soldier's mother is. And given that more than half of Trump's public statements have been liesfactually incorrect, I know who I am going to go with.

2) The soldier's mother gave a very clear opinion on whether he was praising her son or not. Trump "did disrespect my son and my daughter and also me and my husband." So I have to go with a family member who actually heard the conversation over you (who did not) and over Trump (who is a pathologic liar.)

Yes, if he had said "I am sorry she took it that way; I only meant to honor him" or something to that effect, then all this could have been avoided. But he didn't. He "punched back" - and this time his punch ended up in the face of a grieving mother. His supporters must be so proud.

[Blacksmith311 0]

Agreed, maybe "his false sense of patriotism for his own self image" would have been a better term.

And yes that's why I asked was I have not heard about any of this until you brought it up, and was wondering about the context of the conversation. I am completely dismissing the did he say it, or not issue and going for he straight said it, not how was it meant. This issue of him lying, well we all know he lies.

[wolfriverjoe 1,449]

DJL

This is all politicizing something that shouldn't be political. The President shouldn't have to commit to what is becoming hollow political theatrics every time a soldier dies. I'm sorry if it sounds harsh but soldiers die and it's not the President's place to personally reach out their families. Besides, he obviously does a shit job at it. This country has turned soldiers into political pawns and it's bullshit.

Since the President is the one who sent them there, it's his responsibility.

Bush knew this, as did Obama.

Since Trump has no concept of responsibility, nor of empathy, he was not capable of doing this very well.

And, as I noted a while back, the original criticism of Trump over these deaths was a complete lack of acknowledgement of them. No statement, no tweet, no nothing. I wouldn't have criticized him for not personally calling the families.

It sounds like Kelly knew that Trump wouldn't do this very well, and suggested he not call.

Quote

In fact, Kelly said he advised Trump not to phone the families of fallen soldiers because "if you're not in the family, if you've never worn the uniform, if you're not in combat, you can't even begin to imagine how to make that call."
When Trump insisted on making the calls, Kelly offered advice.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 2,071]

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And, as I noted a while back, the original criticism of Trump over these deaths was a complete lack of acknowledgement of them. No statement, no tweet, no nothing. I wouldn't have criticized him for not personally calling the families.

This gets at the heart of the matter. Trump did not call them because he wanted to relay his feelings. Trump called them because he felt that he could gain something from doing so. He only did it after he was called out for ignoring them.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[rushmc 18]

Fake news! Your favorite kind.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Blacksmith311 0]

Maybe trump should have called GWB instead and listened to this speach.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-w-bush-comes-out-of-retirement-to-deliver-a-veiled-rebuke-of-trump/2017/10/19/3b7881ea-b4ec-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.7b2ed19f307f

[Phil1111 1,050]

Blacksmith311

Maybe trump should have called GWB instead and listened to this speach.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-w-bush-comes-out-of-retirement-to-deliver-a-veiled-rebuke-of-trump/2017/10/19/3b7881ea-b4ec-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.7b2ed19f307f

Like many others he uses professional speech writers. Unlike trump who likes to go "off script".

[quade 4]

My two cents.

If a grieving mother wants to say ANYTHING about you because you put her son in harm's way and he subsequently died, for whatever reason, even the noblest on the planet, you STFU and take it.

You STFU and TAKE IT.

You don't send another grieving man who lost his son to cover for you.

You STFU and TAKE IT.

Look, I realize Trump probably originally meant no disrespect, but he could have been more eloquent. After his inability to do that, he should have at least personally apologized. But no.

What an asshole.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,799]

Was what Trump said to the mother appropriate? That's a value judgment. Obviously it's very difficult to know what to say in these circumstances.

Did Trump lie when he denied saying it? According to Kelly, he did. I am shocked, SHOCKED.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,291]

This.

It's turned into a shitstorm that makes the press look pretty small-minded (which they can be sometimes). The real story is the lying, but, there are plenty of other stories about Trump lying.

Trump is a vapid goober; he realized that he had to do something, and asked Kelly (who would be a pretty good source) what would be a good thing to say. What's appropriate for one military man to say to another (as described by Kelly) might not be for a non-military person. If a jumper goes in, do you tell the mom-jumping mother "he knew what he was doing" or "I'm so sorry."

I'm no fan of this president, but I think this is the wrong story to work on. If nothing else, it's come back to bite the press in the ass. The hard-core liberals don't care, but they're sounding more and more like the hard-core Trumpeters or truthers a lot of the time now.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,799]

"Trump lied" has become rather like "Dog bites man" as no longer newsworthy.

A sad indictment of the state of things.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[winsor 220]

kallend

"Trump lied" has become rather like "Dog bites man" as no longer newsworthy.

A sad indictment of the state of things.

When my son called someone a liar, I called him on it. I pointed out that someone is not lying if they state something that is wrong but believe it is true. They are lying only if they know what they say is false at the time.

Trump has the innate characteristic of saying whatever crosses his mind. To him the whole true vs. false thing is an incomprehensible abstraction, and crediting him with the ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is completely unfair. There is nothing to suggest that he has that capacity.

You should apologize.

[Phil1111 1,050]

winsor

***
"Trump lied" has become rather like "Dog bites man" as no longer newsworthy.

A sad indictment of the state of things.

When my son called someone a liar, I called him on it. I pointed out that someone is not lying if they state something that is wrong but believe it is true. They are lying only if they know what they say is false at the time.

Trump has the innate characteristic of saying whatever crosses his mind. To him the whole true vs. false thing is an incomprehensible abstraction, and crediting him with the ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is completely unfair. There is nothing to suggest that he has that capacity.

You should apologize.

You touch on something there. trump lying is such an everyday event that the entanglement of facts with this grieving mother. Has created a distasteful dialog that should be put to rest so to speak. Wendy is right.

PR relief efforts are a "10" according to trump. They should move to that more current lie.

[SkyDekker 1,270]

Quote

I'm no fan of this president, but I think this is the wrong story to work on

I generally agree with you. The differing point for me is that Trump started this story by claiming how he called them all and his predecessors did not. He started this shitshow by making the story all about him....as usual.

[billvon 2,679]

Quote

Trump has the innate characteristic of saying whatever crosses his mind. To him the whole true vs. false thing is an incomprehensible abstraction, and crediting him with the ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is completely unfair. There is nothing to suggest that he has that capacity.

That's a good point. And when the White House issues a statement along the lines of "there should be no expectation of veracity from the president" then it would make sense to simply ignore whatever he says, under the (safe) assumption that he is not being truthful.

But the way it stands now, he is using the power of his office to put weight behind his lies. (Or intentional mistruths, or fantasies, or alternative facts, or whatever the politically correct term for that sort of thing is nowadays.) And thus we see the spectacle of Huckabee, Kelly et al defending every stupid divorced-from-reality thing Trump says.

And for as long as that continues, people _should_ call him (and his administration) on their lies. Because they are presenting them as truth - and most of them know better. And it will take constant pressure on them to effect any change at all, due to the power of that office.

[Blacksmith311 0]

Totally agree with the comment about him lying about saying it, but it seems it was as I suspected. He said “he knew what he signed up for..., but when it happens it still hurts.

I wouldn’t have taken that the wrong way, I can see how it could by someone with a different point of view. Still does not fix the lying part though.

[Faicon9493 132]

Look back to the Central Park jogger case of 1989 and Trump's conduct. Five young men of color are arrested and convicted of a vicious crime. Trump engages in a costly and highly inflammatory media blitz calling for the return of the death penalty. After more than a few years in jail, it comes out that confessions had been coerced. It comes out that their DNA doesn't match DNA from the crime scene. The one man who actually did the crime confessed and his DNA matched crime scene DNA. Any apology or retractions from Trump? No. That's not in the playbook that he got from Roy Cohn. Don't expect him to do the right thing now and those working for him do so with the expectation that they may be called to fall on the sword one day. That's what they signed up for.