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millertime24

Environmently friendly stuff.

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So I've been improving my basement. I've done a bit of work with the drywall, flooring, new receptacles and all the shit that is involved with all that work. One thing I did was replace the lights. I purchased 100W (equivilant) LED bulbs. I figured I'd try them in the basement before I committed to the whole house.

I'm impressed!!! The bulbs are bright almost instantly and according to the package they should last around 10 years. They also only draw 15W of power so they beat incandescent bulbs there.

If the enviro people want people to get on board with "saving the planet "solutions, they should follow this route. I don't care about the environment, but when showed a cost/benefit for a consumable such as a light this makes sense.

Now I need to go murder some baby seals in CA...;)
Muff #5048

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I did similar a few years ago throughout my entire house with all the spotlights. They cost about 3 times what a normal bulb costs but I haven't had to replace a single one in 3 years and the costs on electricity is so much better!

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

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As you say the 3x cost is easily justifiable long-term, but for cheap bastards like me if you keep an eye open then occasionally Amazon or Home Depot will have sales where these aren't much more expensive than the old bulbs.
I got nuthin

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millertime24

So I've been improving my basement. I've done a bit of work with the drywall, flooring, new receptacles and all the shit that is involved with all that work. One thing I did was replace the lights. I purchased 100W (equivilant) LED bulbs. I figured I'd try them in the basement before I committed to the whole house.

I'm impressed!!! The bulbs are bright almost instantly and according to the package they should last around 10 years. They also only draw 15W of power so they beat incandescent bulbs there.

If the enviro people want people to get on board with "saving the planet "solutions, they should follow this route. I don't care about the environment, but when showed a cost/benefit for a consumable such as a light this makes sense.

Now I need to go murder some baby seals in CA...;)



I work for a commercial electrical contractor, yes LED is now the standard. Besides the low draw you're able to downsize many of the components within the system to include wiring, breakers, etc, etc and it allows much more direct control of the system with such things as dimming, occupancy sensors, and daylight sensors in perimeter space. Basically, it's way beyond feel-good environmental stuff.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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BartsDaddy

I changed over my whole house 9 months ago and have had two of the long lasting led's go out all ready. They work good but do not last as long as claimed.



You can usually get warranty replacements on them if they go bad. Just have to hold onto receipts, etc.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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DJL

***So I've been improving my basement. I've done a bit of work with the drywall, flooring, new receptacles and all the shit that is involved with all that work. One thing I did was replace the lights. I purchased 100W (equivilant) LED bulbs. I figured I'd try them in the basement before I committed to the whole house.

I'm impressed!!! The bulbs are bright almost instantly and according to the package they should last around 10 years. They also only draw 15W of power so they beat incandescent bulbs there.

If the enviro people want people to get on board with "saving the planet "solutions, they should follow this route. I don't care about the environment, but when showed a cost/benefit for a consumable such as a light this makes sense.

Now I need to go murder some baby seals in CA...;)



I work for a commercial electrical contractor, yes LED is now the standard. Besides the low draw you're able to downsize many of the components within the system to include wiring, breakers, etc, etc and it allows much more direct control of the system with such things as dimming, occupancy sensors, and daylight sensors in perimeter space. Basically, it's way beyond feel-good environmental stuff.

This is what I was most impressed with when we redid our basement. A 15 amp circuit is good for about 1800 watts and with you planning for about 80% of that you are limited to about no more than 1400 watts per circuit. That really means about 10 lights (100 watt each) at max since you figure an outlet or two on the same circuit you are approaching max. With the LED's only costing you 14 watts each you could get 70 lights per circuit or so to get to the same max loading. 200 amp panels are now total overkill for a home and you can run as many lights as you would want almost. 12 gauge wire is not needed as much either since there are fewer 20 amp circuits needing to be ran for the lights so you can run cheaper 14 gauge wires.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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Ehecatl

***I purchased 100W (equivilant) LED bulbs.



What did each bulb cost, compared to a conventional incandescent bulb?

That comparison can't be made due to the fact that none of the fixtures are rated to handle 100W incandescent bulbs. I'm getting 100W brightness for 15W of consumption. The manufacturer claims a 13 year bulb life at an average use of 3 hrs/day, but time will tell how long they last in the real world. And I paid ~$13 per 2pk.
Muff #5048

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PhreeZone

******So I've been improving my basement. I've done a bit of work with the drywall, flooring, new receptacles and all the shit that is involved with all that work. One thing I did was replace the lights. I purchased 100W (equivilant) LED bulbs. I figured I'd try them in the basement before I committed to the whole house.

I'm impressed!!! The bulbs are bright almost instantly and according to the package they should last around 10 years. They also only draw 15W of power so they beat incandescent bulbs there.

If the enviro people want people to get on board with "saving the planet "solutions, they should follow this route. I don't care about the environment, but when showed a cost/benefit for a consumable such as a light this makes sense.

Now I need to go murder some baby seals in CA...;)



I work for a commercial electrical contractor, yes LED is now the standard. Besides the low draw you're able to downsize many of the components within the system to include wiring, breakers, etc, etc and it allows much more direct control of the system with such things as dimming, occupancy sensors, and daylight sensors in perimeter space. Basically, it's way beyond feel-good environmental stuff.

This is what I was most impressed with when we redid our basement. A 15 amp circuit is good for about 1800 watts and with you planning for about 80% of that you are limited to about no more than 1400 watts per circuit. That really means about 10 lights (100 watt each) at max since you figure an outlet or two on the same circuit you are approaching max. With the LED's only costing you 14 watts each you could get 70 lights per circuit or so to get to the same max loading. 200 amp panels are now total overkill for a home and you can run as many lights as you would want almost. 12 gauge wire is not needed as much either since there are fewer 20 amp circuits needing to be ran for the lights so you can run cheaper 14 gauge wires.

Or in my case, running a 15A miter saw on the same circuit to cut flooring, trim ect.B|
Muff #5048

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We semi finished our basement as well. Love the LEDs but there is one problem...I had them install too many! I was concerned because I've seen older homes where there weren't enough can lights. Now it's almost too bright. ;)

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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LED technology really has changed my industry. We manufacture electrical signs. We used to illuminate with either neon or fluorescent. Now using LEDs we cut our fab time and the power draw of our signs.

As the license holder I would rather be responsible for a 12v power supply in the fascia of a building than a 15,000 v neon transformer. Also we have found a good market in retro fitting existing signs with the newer technology.
You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

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airdvr

We semi finished our basement as well. Love the LEDs but there is one problem...I had them install too many! I was concerned because I've seen older homes where there weren't enough can lights. Now it's almost too bright. ;)



Did you just leave it or install a dimming switch? It's a pretty easy install. I'd recommend one where you set the dim for what you like and then the on/off just goes between off and your preset. Then you still have the ability to crank it up.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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>Yes, the LEDs and dimmer need to be paired correctly.

For decades the standard way to dim bulbs was the venerable phase-control dimmer. It kept power off for some part of the AC cycle then turned it on suddenly. It worked great for incandescent lights because their filaments didn't even notice that the power was turned on and off 120 times a second - the filament didn't have time to cool down.

But with fluorescents and (now) LED's that doesn't work as well, since those forms of light can turn on and off that fast. So you can get buzzing, EMI (radio interference) and flicker.

With LED's especially that's unfortunate, because all LED's contain a drive circuit that turns the constant voltage that comes out of the AC line to a constant current that the LED's need. Adjust the current (which is easy; vary a single component value) and you can dim to whatever level you want with no flicker, EMI or noise.

The problem is - how do you get that signal to the light? There are many, many ways to get a dimming signal from dimmer switch to LED driver, but the industry has to agree on a method, and so far they haven't. So most still use the old phase control with a lot of band-aids - big capacitors (which are failure prone) and large EMI filters (which reduce efficiency.)

A few lights now give you the option of controlling the light via wireless (Bluetooth or Wifi) but that's an expensive, somewhat difficult solution. We need a better standard.

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DanG

I think it's a good commentary on the state of our nation that some people resist using new technology simply because it has been labeled "green" and therefore liberal.



I really like LED's.

First off, I like the daylight bulbs you can buy.
I have my whole house (almost) switched to LES,s
Second, I did a mass switch and my electric bill went down almost $30 per month.

Third, they evolved and are becoming popular without the government pushing them down our throats.

I am even switching my vehicles over to LED,s....
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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Quote

Third, they evolved and are becoming popular without the government pushing them down our throats.



Part of the driver to develop LED's was due to government changes - specifically the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007. This required that lightbulbs produce the same light output but were required to use 20-30% less power to be sold in the US. This basically kick started the large drive towards CFL's at the time. CFL's had a large power savings but were ugly in their designs, they tended to only be in the cool white color and had lots of toxins associated with it. As lighting companies were trying to find more options to meet this new regulation a lot of them started to settle on LED's since the were lots cheaper to work with, had fewer toxins and had the option to shift the colors to the warm light that was closer to the old style they were replacing. They also started to be delivered in ways that were just not possible like the strip lighting that has became really popular in a lot of applications. Once the price of LED's started coming down some the industry basically dropped CFL's and started only using LED's.


Lets not forget that a lot of people resisted the driver to be more energy efficient by introducing the Better Use of Light Bulbs Act and the Light Bulb Freedom of Choice Act both of which failed to get enabled. Had they passed they would have killed the driver to create these technologies.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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>Third, they evolved and are becoming popular without the government pushing
>them down our throats.

They became popular because the government "pushed them down your throat." Here's a list of government programs that pushed research, design, development and purchase of LED's in my area -

SDG&E (Electric) - Energy Efficiency Business Rebates
SDG&E - Residential Efficiency Rebate Program
Energy-Efficient Commercial Buildings Tax Deduction (fed)
Energy-Efficient New Homes Tax Credit for Home Builders (fed)
Residential Energy Efficiency Tax Credit (fed)
Tribal Energy Program Grant (fed)
Green Power Purchasing Goal for Federal Government (fed policy)
Home Energy Renovation Opportunity (HERO) Financing Program (CA)
U.S. Department of Energy - Loan Guarantee Program (fed)
Qualified Energy Conservation Bonds (QECBs) (fed)
City of San Diego - Sustainable Building Expedited Permit Program
Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Corporate) (fed)
Residential Energy Conservation Subsidy Exclusion (Personal) (fed)
Energy Efficiency Financing for Public Sector Projects (CA)
U.S. Environmental Protection Agency - ENERGY STAR Training (fed)
San Diego County - Green Building Program CA
FHA PowerSaver Loan Program (fed)
Section 179D of the Federal Tax Code (deductions for efficient lighting) (fed)

A blurb on the US Department of Energy Solid State Lighting Program:
==============
The more than 250 solid-state lighting R&D projects DOE has funded since 2000 have resulted in more than 260 patents applied for or awarded and a huge industry footprint, with literally millions of SSL products currently on the market that are based on at least some DOE-funded R&D. Those products have contributed to more than $2.8 billion in energy savings so far – a remarkable return on the total DOE SSL program investment of about $350 million.
===============

So enjoy those LED's that the government "rammed down your throat!" It's ironic that lighting products that the government helped fund give you enough light to complain about the government programs that allowed them to happen. (And that you now love them.)

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millertime24

I don't care about the environment, but when showed a cost/benefit for a consumable such as a light this makes sense.



I'm always curious how so many people grow up with no sense of social responsibility. Most people teach their kids to clean up after themselves, not to throw garbage on the ground, etc.. yet these principles seem to be lost on so many Americans. You say "the enviro people" as if it's a strange concept to want future generations to live healthy lives. Is this a completely foreign concept to you?

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