Gun Violence: Whites vs. Islamic Terror

[billvon 2,400]

>I had a friend a number of years ago who told me he was really glad that Texas
>had allowed concealed carry (1995). Because three times in the ensuing 2 years
>he'd had to take out his weapon to make it clear that he wasn't a good target.
>Interesting that in the previous 20+ years of adulthood he hadn't needed the
>weapon.

You see the same thing in skydiving. I've seen some of the more careful BASE jumpers out there go to the DZ, pack in five minutes, and have a mal every few hundred jumps.

Does that mean that parachutes just malfunction and there's nothing you can do about it? Not really - it's more that people make decisions based on their perceptions. And if a gun (or a reserve) makes you feel safer, then you are going to tend to do more risky things.

(One unfortunate difference is that gun dependency, unlike reserve dependency, can get _other_ people killed when you need it.)

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

*** I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone.

Ditto from us regarding progressive liberals. We do not want your power and control over our lives.

We're in agreement and our positions are intact. Not too shabby.

Maybe in another thread we can parse the means by which our held views are not held over each other.

[RonD1120 58]

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Phil1111 910]

billvon

>I had a friend a number of years ago who told me he was really glad that Texas
>had allowed concealed carry (1995). Because three times in the ensuing 2 years
>he'd had to take out his weapon to make it clear that he wasn't a good target.
>Interesting that in the previous 20+ years of adulthood he hadn't needed the
>weapon.

You see the same thing in skydiving. I've seen some of the more careful BASE jumpers out there go to the DZ, pack in five minutes, and have a mal every few hundred jumps.

Does that mean that parachutes just malfunction and there's nothing you can do about it? Not really - it's more that people make decisions based on their perceptions. And if a gun (or a reserve) makes you feel safer, then you are going to tend to do more risky things.

(One unfortunate difference is that gun dependency, unlike reserve dependency, can get _other_ people killed when you need it.)

Or let tempers get the better of them. Had the anesthesiologist been packing. The dispute over fallen leaves may have left poor old Rand Paul six feet under. Instead of musing with his legal council how many $100k they can divvy up. All well teaching a democrat how to control his temper.

[RonD1120 58]

kallend

***I requested my CCW permit when my son got his. When I moved to GA everyone I met had one. I received one here to be a part of the community advocates. That is the reason we moved up here. We wanted to be surrounded with Christians who hold the same values that we hold.

We are all well aware of the values you hold.

Is that a bad thing?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[skinnay 0]

RonD1120

******I requested my CCW permit when my son got his. When I moved to GA everyone I met had one. I received one here to be a part of the community advocates. That is the reason we moved up here. We wanted to be surrounded with Christians who hold the same values that we hold.

We are all well aware of the values you hold.

Is that a bad thing?

Yes.

[RonD1120 58]

skinnay

*********I requested my CCW permit when my son got his. When I moved to GA everyone I met had one. I received one here to be a part of the community advocates. That is the reason we moved up here. We wanted to be surrounded with Christians who hold the same values that we hold.

We are all well aware of the values you hold.

Is that a bad thing?

Yes.

What is your solution for the problem of us?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,400]

>What is your solution for the problem of us?

Joe said "I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone." You said "Ditto from us."

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

[RonD1120 58]

billvon

>What is your solution for the problem of us?

Joe said "I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone." You said "Ditto from us."

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

That works for me. Deal.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

Count me in as well.

Derek V

[Phil1111 910]

Hooknswoop

Quote

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

Count me in as well.

Derek V

OH! so for you guys women shouldn't have a vote on the issue.

Explaining Democratic victories: It’s gun violence, stupid[Thats the title of the editorial, I'm not calling you guys stupid]
... The election in Virginia, especially, represents an early indication of the growing importance among key voters of a critical issue: gun violence, and our elected leaders’ unwillingness to do anything about it. ...

This is significant. For years, the NRA has spent big in competitive races, investing in candidates who will vote in lock-step with their agenda. And many times, candidates fell in line — fearing the outsized voice and activism of the NRA’s most ardent supporters. The NRA tried to do the same thing in its home state of Virginia this year, spending several million dollars on Republican statewide races. But this time, they failed....

What is clear is that in the face of multiple mass shootings and the ongoing scourge of day-to-day gun violence unseen in any other developed country,
http://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/359864-explaining-democratic-victories-its-gun-violence-stupid

"Northam’s victory was propelled by white, college-educated women; voters who are concerned about health care; the robust showing among Democrats; and voters who strongly disapprove of Trump, exit polls indicated.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/polls-close-anticipation-builds-as-virginia-governors-race-results-trickle-in/2017/11/07/68d6941e-c3d4-11e7-84bc-5e285c7f4512_story.html?utm_term=.2d4693c397ad

So it looks as if white college educated women are going to take away the guns from uneducated white males who love guns.

Better stock up on those high capacity mags and Walmart AR-15's. Because trump is going to hand the senate, the house and eventually the presidency to ...no...not...HRC!!..LOL just kidding.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

***>What is your solution for the problem of us?

Joe said "I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone." You said "Ditto from us."

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

That works for me. Deal.

Neato. That didn't take long. If the market is still open I'll trade two clearies and a boulder cat's eye for a ban on bump stocks.

While I wait for takers, tell me how progressive liberalism is constraining your life. I'm hoping for examples.

To be a sport, I'll start with one from my side: science. Scratching your nose destroys millions more cells than compose a zygote or even a 100 cell unilaminar blastocyst. Christians are relentless in the politicizing of what they believe is the magical ensoulment of this pin head size formation of cells. They want women they have never met to bear children owing to their beliefs. I think that is wrong.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

******>What is your solution for the problem of us?

Joe said "I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone." You said "Ditto from us."

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

That works for me. Deal.

Neato. That didn't take long. If the market is still open I'll trade two clearies and a boulder cat's eye for a ban on bump stocks.

While I wait for takers, tell me how progressive liberalism is constraining your life. I'm hoping for examples.

To be a sport, I'll start with one from my side: science. Scratching your nose destroys millions more cells than compose a zygote or even a 100 cell unilaminar blastocyst. Christians are relentless in the politicizing of what they believe is the magical ensoulment of this pin head size formation of cells. They want women they have never met to bear children owing to their beliefs. I think that is wrong.

The evil of progressive liberalism only effects my life now on this forum. My education required me to work in that environment. I did, I handled it and I was successful. The problem was that I was phony. I did not believe in much of what I was doing but, there was that mortgage thing.

Your case for abortion is really a description of a miscarriage. Babies are well formed when they are aborted.

The Christian stance against abortion, as you know, is the belief that conception creates the soul. We attempt as best we can to save souls.

I gave my permission to abort my child, Nov 73, because my wife and I were divorced. That decision haunted and condemned me until I was forgiven at the moment of salvation, 16 Mar 81.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

*********>What is your solution for the problem of us?

Joe said "I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone." You said "Ditto from us."

So how about this:

The democrats stop trying to ban guns.
The republicans stop trying to take away the rights of women and LGBT.

Deal?

That works for me. Deal.

Neato. That didn't take long. If the market is still open I'll trade two clearies and a boulder cat's eye for a ban on bump stocks.

While I wait for takers, tell me how progressive liberalism is constraining your life. I'm hoping for examples.

To be a sport, I'll start with one from my side: science. Scratching your nose destroys millions more cells than compose a zygote or even a 100 cell unilaminar blastocyst. Christians are relentless in the politicizing of what they believe is the magical ensoulment of this pin head size formation of cells. They want women they have never met to bear children owing to their beliefs. I think that is wrong.

The evil of progressive liberalism only effects my life now on this forum. My education required me to work in that environment. I did, I handled it and I was successful. The problem was that I was phony. I did not believe in much of what I was doing but, there was that mortgage thing.

Your case for abortion is really a description of a miscarriage. Babies are well formed when they are aborted.

The Christian stance against abortion, as you know, is the belief that conception creates the soul. We attempt as best we can to save souls.

I gave my permission to abort my child, Nov 73, because my wife and I were divorced. That decision haunted and condemned me until I was forgiven at the moment of salvation, 16 Mar 81.


The cell formations I mentioned are early stage, sure. But they are also post conception so the soul thing is already in play. Hence the Christian objection to RU-486, the morning after pill.

Souls are the problem here. For my part you can have as many souls as you like. In fact, if you are a chimera, you might already have two.

Secular views on abortion place no restriction on you but your beliefs would place restrictions on others.

Can you not believe as you will without insisting that we have souls too?

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

The Christian stance against abortion, as you know, is the belief that conception creates the soul. We attempt as best we can to save souls.

Hey Ron, when you get to your reward will the souls of those zygotes be there to thank you for trying to save their lives? Or will they be condemned to Hell fire because they never sought the forgiveness of the savior?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

Souls are the problem here. For my part you can have as many souls as you like. In fact, if you are a chimera, you might already have two.

Secular views on abortion place no restriction on you but your beliefs would place restrictions on others.

Can you not believe as you will without insisting that we have souls too?

No I cannot. The triune nature of man is that he is a spirit, lives in a body and has a soul. The soul is comprised of the mind, emotions and free will.

As Christian I have no responsibility regarding the final disposition of anyone's soul. My responsibility is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is tell folks that unless they exercise their free will to accept the gift of eternal life they will inherit eternal death.

The battle for the soul is in the mind. Christ makes the choice easy. Satan makes it extremely difficult. Satan influences the mind to think about what it is thinking. Thus the mind becomes confused and muddled.

That is why repentance, or the changing of the mind, requires surrender of the ego.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

gowlerk

Quote

The Christian stance against abortion, as you know, is the belief that conception creates the soul. We attempt as best we can to save souls.

Hey Ron, when you get to your reward will the souls of those zygotes be there to thank you for trying to save their lives? Or will they be condemned to Hell fire because they never sought the forgiveness of the savior?

I haven't been directly involved in the anti-abortion movement since the mid-80s. I can only support political candidates that oppose abortion. I don't think it will be abolished. Instead I and my community are simply preparing for God's wrath because of the practice, The same goes for same sex marriage and the current fad of gender manipulation.

The Bible offers little in the describing the details of the spiritual realm in eternity. My personal glimpses into light and life have shown me that it will be different than anything we can imagine. Things and people will not be ordered as they are in the physical plane.

Satan uses man's concept of time as a main tool of manipulation, attack, and fear with the ego. Walking in the spirit as He is in the Spirit requires learning to think in eternity. The Holy Spirit ministers to the Christian in that regard.

The prophet Isaiah gives some indication that we will be able to view the souls of the lost in Chapter 66.

22 
“For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 
And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
24 
“And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

***

Souls are the problem here. For my part you can have as many souls as you like. In fact, if you are a chimera, you might already have two.

Secular views on abortion place no restriction on you but your beliefs would place restrictions on others.

Can you not believe as you will without insisting that we have souls too?

No I cannot. The triune nature of man is that he is a spirit, lives in a body and has a soul. The soul is comprised of the mind, emotions and free will.

As Christian I have no responsibility regarding the final disposition of anyone's soul. My responsibility is to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is tell folks that unless they exercise their free will to accept the gift of eternal life they will inherit eternal death.

The battle for the soul is in the mind. Christ makes the choice easy. Satan makes it extremely difficult. Satan influences the mind to think about what it is thinking. Thus the mind becomes confused and muddled.

That is why repentance, or the changing of the mind, requires surrender of the ego.

So there it is, no waiting required. Your belief system requires that you interfere in the lives of others but your meme is that it is we who interfere with yours.

"Ditto from us regarding progressive liberals. We do not want your power and control over our lives."

It's the other way around, actually. My hope was that honest conversation might cause you to see that truth.

Your truth claims about Jesus and Satan and souls and repentance and your responsibilities are unsupported in any factual way. You simply choose to believe what you believe and you will never be satisfied until we all fall in line and believe it too.

There is no conversation to be had here. You've just admitted to misogyny, bigotry, paranoia and the divine right of interference in the lives others.

You've said before that only here, on these pages, are you affected by we progressive liberals. Well, why not leave the field and be fully free of us?

[RonD1120 58]

Wow just Wow!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 1,912]

Quote

The Bible offers little in the describing the details of the spiritual realm in eternity. My personal glimpses into light and life have shown me that it will be different than anything we can imagine. Things and people will not be ordered as they are in the physical plane.

Hmmm....Probably the most sensible explanation I've ever heard. An admission that you don't really know because you can't really know. And an acceptance that you will need to wait to find out more.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

Wow just Wow!

Wow, what? I simply respond to your claims. Frankly, I find your claims outrageous. However fervently you believe in spirits you have no proof. You state as fact this triune of man and Satan silliness but really those are just stories you choose to believe.

If you have proof I'm ready.

As far as claiming you are a bigot and a misogynist I am simply taking you at your own word. "Instead I and my community are simply preparing for God's wrath because of the practice, The same goes for same sex marriage and the current fad of gender manipulation. " If people you do not know want to marry, same sex or not, how is it any skin off of your nose? That is bigotry.

"I gave my permission to abort my child, Nov 73, because my wife and I were divorced. " You gave your permission and after you were no longer married at that. Is she still permitted to drive and have a library card? That is misogyny.

"You people may win out in the end but we are not going to go easy." and "We know we live in the end times where most of society is angry and afraid." That is paranoia.

You claim the divine right, in fact obligation, under your beliefs to oppose gay marriage, abortion and whatever else doesn't fit your world view.

Again, I offered you a chance to show me where we progressive liberals have this power and control over you and you offer nothing.

I say it again, in truth it is the other way around.

[RonD1120 58]

You cannot understand why I believe the way I do but I understand completely why you believe the way you do.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

RonD1120

You cannot understand why I believe the way I do but I understand completely why you believe the way you do.

That was delightfully condescending. Very Christian of you.

Don't be so sure I cannot understand why you believe the way you do. A good starting point might be to recognize that revealed truth may simply be an effect.

Since day one man has strived to see order in the apparent chaos of our lives. We also strive to see ourselves (or Jesus in a cheese sandwich) in the world around us. It's easy to see how the ancients, ignorant of evolution, the universe etc.., would conclude that the world had to have been designed for our use. Less easy to see is how moderns with the benefit of science, the only revealed truth, and access to knowledge at a keystroke prefer to remain comfited by old stories that have no basis in truth.

You moved to the hinterlands to be surrounded by folks with like beliefs. You live your day's validated by those around you as was your desire. If that's what floats your boat, good on you.

Me, I'd rather hang with people who called me out to defend my positions and took no shit along the way.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

***You cannot understand why I believe the way I do but I understand completely why you believe the way you do.

That was delightfully condescending. Very Christian of you.

Don't be so sure I cannot understand why you believe the way you do. A good starting point might be to recognize that revealed truth may simply be an effect.

Since day one man has strived to see order in the apparent chaos of our lives. We also strive to see ourselves (or Jesus in a cheese sandwich) in the world around us. It's easy to see how the ancients, ignorant of evolution, the universe etc.., would conclude that the world had to have been designed for our use. Less easy to see is how moderns with the benefit of science, the only revealed truth, and access to knowledge at a keystroke prefer to remain comfited by old stories that have no basis in truth.

You moved to the hinterlands to be surrounded by folks with like beliefs. You live your day's validated by those around you as was your desire. If that's what floats your boat, good on you.

Me, I'd rather hang with people who called me out to defend my positions and took no shit along the way.

I have been posting in SC for many years now. When new folks, such as yourself, show up I find myself going through the same explanations repeatedly. That is good thing. For it challenges me to think in new terms.

Once again I will attempt to explain my Christian understanding. I know that I probably not succeed in adequately doing so because Christian spiritual reasoning does not overlap well with secular human logic.

Allow me to address the incorrect allegation that I am a mysoginist. That means that you believe that I hate women based on my belief that abortion is wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. I love and respect the females of our mortal incarnations. I hate the sin of women killing their children for the enjoyment of sex. That is a spiritual Christian concept. However, if a women suffers from depression and guilt as a result of commiting this sin, I am there to help her obtain forgiveness through Christ, not condemn her for making bad decisions.

In other words, I hate the sin but will always love the sinner. The Bible explains we are all sinners. That includes me, you and everyone alive. Christians are sinners. Our saving grace is that we can confess our sin before Christ and receive forgiveness. The slate is wiped clean. We attain peace of mind in Christ. That option is always available.

No, I am not a mysoginist and the same explanation will suffice for your other allegations albeit they fit your logical reasoning.

The last sentence of your post indicates to me that you seek to play the game of one upmanship. A game of wits pitting ego against ego. I am not a worthy opponent in the arena. I do not have much ego left. Praise be unto God through Jesus the Christ.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

Getting somewhat back on the topic. Christians are standing with the survivors.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/07/texas-church-shooting-victims-receive-offer-from-southern-baptist-convention-to-cover-funeral-costs.html

The Sutherland Springs Church reopens as a memorial.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/first-baptist-church-in-sutherland-texas-reopens-as-a-memorial-to-victims-1510535169

When this happened in Amish country they completely razed the building and then rebuilt a new structure.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.