Gun Violence: Whites vs. Islamic Terror

[DJL 232]

skinnay

***According Glenn Beck's monologue the other day, there are 314M guns in the U.S based on 2012 statistics. The murder rate by GSW is decreasing despite the mass shootings and Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, LA and other high crime cities.

Our population is what? Around 324M. It would be an overwhelming task to challenge, test, license and insure all the gun owners. Why? Only law abiding citizens could be identified. Many otherwise law abiding folks would hide their guns. The bad guys would always have their weapons.

This is like trying to control the earth's climate. There are many good ideas it is just that the job is to large.

Remember, I am a pragmatist with strange ideas.

I recall Nicolas Cage in The Lord of War? To paraphrase, there are 314M guns in a population of 324M people. That is almost one gun per person. The real question becomes, how do we arm the other 10M?

The 0>6 age group has traditionally not been a large consumer of firearms so that may account for some of that gap. Perhaps because manufactures have not dedicated enough R&D to engineer smaller guns for their tiny hands. If we have any luck this event may provide an initiative to finally get quality gun access for all americans.

To get this thread back on track. On average, toddlers with guns kill (Including themselves) more people yearly in the US than islamic terrorists.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[normiss 622]

It's probably too soon to discuss, but maybe we need more extreme vetting of children, because we know it won't work for gun owners.
/s

[RonD1120 58]

Around here 6 & 7 YOs begin training with their father's guns. Last year and again this year two 7 YOs killed their first buck.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,623]

RonD1120

Around here 6 & 7 YOs begin training with their father's guns. Last year and again this year two 7 YOs killed their first buck.

Not relevant in the slightest to the fact that toddlers with guns kill more Americans than terrorists with brown skin.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

RonD1120

I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?

You realize that you closed with a rhetorical question, yes?

I am not seeking to embarrass you. I am simply trying to illustrate for you, in my own peculiar way and according to my own peculiar views, that you are somewhat delusional on the subject of guns and their daily utility. I also hold that your delusion is, in some degree, caused by your faith that a spirit figure will guide your aim in a church full of screaming, panicking people.

The problem is that the bastard who killed all of those innocents was also comfortable bringing his gun to church.

The problem is that it is all too easy to get guns and that's why this damnable plague of mass shootings seems to have no end.

The problem is that we have bump stocks and convertible AR-15's being sold in parking lots and high magazine capacity Glock's being carried openly on the streets of America.

The problem is that too many people, owing to their own selfish self-interest, have bought into the good guy with a gun myth.

The problem is that a certain large number of gun rights folks are terrified of giving an inch on anything.

Well, I’m a gun rights guy but I am not freaked out about regulation and I don’t see a reason to go to prayer with a pistol in my pocket.

Seriously, have you or has anyone you know that carries a concealed weapon, at church or no, ever needed it to stop a mass shooting or for an after the fact take down? Let's lower the bar to stopping a candy bar theft. How about using it for any legitimate reason?

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

***I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?

You realize that you closed with a rhetorical question, yes?

I am not seeking to embarrass you. I am simply trying to illustrate for you, in my own peculiar way and according to my own peculiar views, that you are somewhat delusional on the subject of guns and their daily utility. I also hold that your delusion is, in some degree, caused by your faith that a spirit figure will guide your aim in a church full of screaming, panicking people.

The problem is that the bastard who killed all of those innocents was also comfortable bringing his gun to church.

The problem is that it is all too easy to get guns and that's why this damnable plague of mass shootings seems to have no end.

The problem is that we have bump stocks and convertible AR-15's being sold in parking lots and high magazine capacity Glock's being carried openly on the streets of America.

The problem is that too many people, owing to their own selfish self-interest, have bought into the good guy with a gun myth.

The problem is that a certain large number of gun rights folks are terrified of giving an inch on anything.

Well, I’m a gun rights guy but I am not freaked out about regulation and I don’t see a reason to go to prayer with a pistol in my pocket.

Seriously, have you or has anyone you know that carries a concealed weapon, at church or no, ever needed it to stop a mass shooting or for an after the fact take down? Let's lower the bar to stopping a candy bar theft. How about using it for any legitimate reason?

In response to your last question, yes. We have several LEOs and former combat vets in our congregation.

But, like I stated at the beginning. We think differently over here than you people out there.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

RonD1120

******I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?

You realize that you closed with a rhetorical question, yes?

I am not seeking to embarrass you. I am simply trying to illustrate for you, in my own peculiar way and according to my own peculiar views, that you are somewhat delusional on the subject of guns and their daily utility. I also hold that your delusion is, in some degree, caused by your faith that a spirit figure will guide your aim in a church full of screaming, panicking people.

The problem is that the bastard who killed all of those innocents was also comfortable bringing his gun to church.

The problem is that it is all too easy to get guns and that's why this damnable plague of mass shootings seems to have no end.

The problem is that we have bump stocks and convertible AR-15's being sold in parking lots and high magazine capacity Glock's being carried openly on the streets of America.

The problem is that too many people, owing to their own selfish self-interest, have bought into the good guy with a gun myth.

The problem is that a certain large number of gun rights folks are terrified of giving an inch on anything.

Well, I’m a gun rights guy but I am not freaked out about regulation and I don’t see a reason to go to prayer with a pistol in my pocket.

Seriously, have you or has anyone you know that carries a concealed weapon, at church or no, ever needed it to stop a mass shooting or for an after the fact take down? Let's lower the bar to stopping a candy bar theft. How about using it for any legitimate reason?

In response to your last question, yes. We have several LEOs and former combat vets in our congregation.

But, like I stated at the beginning. We think differently over here than you people out there.

Indeed you do. The question was about the day to day carrying of concealed weapons.

I suppose I could have clarified it by saying civilians in everyday life but definitely not police at work or soldiers at war.

Had I felt the need to do so I would also exempt off duty police and active duty but out of uniform soldiers who are pistol qualified. I say that because I think most rational folks would agree that having a few well trained and regulated pistol marksmen sprinkled around is a good thing.

The sample group was specific: "have you or has anyone you know".

Here's your chance to prove your point, why not take it?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

RonD1120

******I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?

You realize that you closed with a rhetorical question, yes?

I am not seeking to embarrass you. I am simply trying to illustrate for you, in my own peculiar way and according to my own peculiar views, that you are somewhat delusional on the subject of guns and their daily utility. I also hold that your delusion is, in some degree, caused by your faith that a spirit figure will guide your aim in a church full of screaming, panicking people.

The problem is that the bastard who killed all of those innocents was also comfortable bringing his gun to church.

The problem is that it is all too easy to get guns and that's why this damnable plague of mass shootings seems to have no end.

The problem is that we have bump stocks and convertible AR-15's being sold in parking lots and high magazine capacity Glock's being carried openly on the streets of America.

The problem is that too many people, owing to their own selfish self-interest, have bought into the good guy with a gun myth.

The problem is that a certain large number of gun rights folks are terrified of giving an inch on anything.

Well, I’m a gun rights guy but I am not freaked out about regulation and I don’t see a reason to go to prayer with a pistol in my pocket.

Seriously, have you or has anyone you know that carries a concealed weapon, at church or no, ever needed it to stop a mass shooting or for an after the fact take down? Let's lower the bar to stopping a candy bar theft. How about using it for any legitimate reason?

In response to your last question, yes. We have several LEOs and former combat vets in our congregation.

But, like I stated at the beginning. We think differently over here than you people out there.

Looks like white vets are a lot more deadly than brown terrorists. No wonder you guys need your guns with you at all times.

[normiss 622]

Seems all it takes to set them off is an ex-wife, refused gay sexual advances, or losing a lot of money.

[DJL 232]

It's kind of odd that the point everyone is making about the Texas Church shooting is that the guy should not have been allowed to own a firearm when previously everyone's point was that laws would not keep someone from having a firearm.

Next, this situation brings up the good guy with a gun theory when the reason we need that guy is because there are so many people able to get guns.

Finally, the good guy with a gun didn't even get there until the gunman was walking out to leave. Sure, who knows where he would have gone next but by that time the tally was 25 dead.

These knee-jerk points by the gun rights people contradict each other every time there's a new incident.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[RonD1120 58]

I answered you question the first time, yes.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

RonD1120

I answered you question the first time, yes.

You replied: "In response to your last question, yes. We have several LEOs and former combat vets in our congregation."

My apologies, I didn't read an answer there. I read that you said yes and I next read that you have several LEO's and former combat vets in your congregation.

If it was you personally that needed to pull out a concealed weapon for a legitimate reason then what purpose was served by mentioning police and vets? Hence, I took it that it was one of your fellows, not you.

Regardless, unless your humility prevents you from doing so, would you please explain the circumstances?

Maybe it's my sheltered life out here in the land of the Fluffy Bellied Danderhooey but I have never met a single person who saved themselves or another with a concealed weapon. That doesn't completely inform my view that concealed carry is unnecessary but it is a factor. I have probably read such stories but if I did they have successfully escaped my memory.

On a side note I just finished dumping 10 rounds of 00 Buckshot into the hill with my new Berretta 1301 Tactical. Sweet kit. Fast action, nice balance and a big easy to find in the dark charging handle.

[RonD1120 58]

I have never personally used my concealed weapon in self defense. Several members of my congregation have done so.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

RonD1120

I have never personally used my concealed weapon in self defense. Several members of my congregation have done so.

I'm unhorsed, I must admit. Several members of a small church congregation have used their concealed weapons to save themselves or others. I think they should publish their experiences and put paid to our namby pamby concerns.

[wmw999 2,120]

I had a friend a number of years ago who told me he was really glad that Texas had allowed concealed carry (1995). Because three times in the ensuing 2 years he'd had to take out his weapon to make it clear that he wasn't a good target. Interesting that in the previous 20+ years of adulthood he hadn't needed the weapon.

I'm sure there are situations where it's necessary. I know how to shoot, but I'd really rather not carry; for me it'd dominate my thoughts too much. But then I don't drive a giant SUV to protect myself from other drivers, either. I'll trust to luck, politeness, and a basic sense of street smarts.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[JoeWeber 2,297]

wmw999

I had a friend a number of years ago who told me he was really glad that Texas had allowed concealed carry (1995). Because three times in the ensuing 2 years he'd had to take out his weapon to make it clear that he wasn't a good target. Interesting that in the previous 20+ years of adulthood he hadn't needed the weapon.

I'm sure there are situations where it's necessary. I know how to shoot, but I'd really rather not carry; for me it'd dominate my thoughts too much. But then I don't drive a giant SUV to protect myself from other drivers, either. I'll trust to luck, politeness, and a basic sense of street smarts.

Wendy P.

I'll credit Ron that he eventually said what is factual, sort of. But the bottom line is that Ron and so many others are living a Gunsmoke fantasy that perpetuates the myth that we need guns in our pockets to be safe.

Some thirty or so years ago I was awakened by a window being opened and shoes hitting the floor. Dude came into my bedroom before I could move. When he moved on I rose, took my 300 Savage off the wall and chambered a round and went out to say hello.

Given the new reality he sat still until the cops showed. But what would be different if I had a pistol cocked, loaded and under my pillow? If I would have killed him would it have been all good and no worries?

I'm armed in my home and I think that everyone should be. That said, toting concealed weapons wherever you go is anathema to my way of thinking.

I have never heard a credible argument for concealed carry and I doubt I ever will.

[Phil1111 910]

Several reports have emerged as to why the round of elections went the way they did. It appears as though URBAN WOMEN turned out in huge numbers.

Evidently uneducated misogynist white men who think like trump have been a huge motivating force. A wave of politically active women from the suburbs have racism, sexism, anti LGBT, proNRA, white men in their sights.

Will American women end gun violence by putting US guns in the blast furnaces of Ohio mini-mills?

[RonD1120 58]

I think you are absolutely correct in this respect. There are no credible arguments for carrying a concealed weapon just as there are no credible arguments for not carrying one. It is a difference in ideologies and defines the turmoil in America today.

We used to be a country with a Christian foundation and we taught our children personal responsibility. Post modernism infused in progressive liberalism is turning us into wusses relying only on computers and government.

I am firmly entrenched in my faith, the Bible and the 2nd Amendment. If the economy continues to grow under President Trump these issues will diminish somewhat.

You people may win out in the end but we are not going to go easy.

Has anyone determined the political party orientation for Paddock and Kelley? The OP indicates that only whites carry out terrorist activities in America. Is that because whites are better at planning and other minorities are simply reactive on the micro level?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DJL 232]

wmw999

I'm sure there are situations where it's necessary. I know how to shoot, but I'd really rather not carry; for me it'd dominate my thoughts too much. But then I don't drive a giant SUV to protect myself from other drivers, either. I'll trust to luck, politeness, and a basic sense of street smarts.

I'm in the same boat. I work in a VERY crime ridden area, as in my coworker at the front desk will not walk 20 feet to her car after work unless I'm standing there, there are regular murders. If there's any reason to have a gun for protection this is it but I STILL really don't need it and it's not worth having to make sure it's in a safe spot at all times yet still available for use.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[wmw999 2,120]

Do you really want to go with something akin to "if Kelley and Paddock aren't liberal it's because whites plan better, and if they are, it's because they're liberal?" (Which is certainly what I'm inferring from your statements).

And did you carry before the real run-up of the NRA, or did it occur to you when they started lobbying so hard?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

I requested my CCW permit when my son got his. When I moved to GA everyone I met had one. I received one here to be a part of the community advocates. That is the reason we moved up here. We wanted to be surrounded with Christians who hold the same values that we hold.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[kallend 1,623]

RonD1120

I requested my CCW permit when my son got his. When I moved to GA everyone I met had one. I received one here to be a part of the community advocates. That is the reason we moved up here. We wanted to be surrounded with Christians who hold the same values that we hold.

We are all well aware of the values you hold.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JoeWeber 2,297]

RonD1120

I think you are absolutely correct in this respect. There are no credible arguments for carrying a concealed weapon just as there are no credible arguments for not carrying one. It is a difference in ideologies and defines the turmoil in America today.

We used to be a country with a Christian foundation and we taught our children personal responsibility. Post modernism infused in progressive liberalism is turning us into wusses relying only on computers and government.

I am firmly entrenched in my faith, the Bible and the 2nd Amendment. If the economy continues to grow under President Trump these issues will diminish somewhat.

You people may win out in the end but we are not going to go easy.

Has anyone determined the political party orientation for Paddock and Kelley? The OP indicates that only whites carry out terrorist activities in America. Is that because whites are better at planning and other minorities are simply reactive on the micro level?

I do believe there are credible arguments for not carrying a concealed weapon. The first is that for most folks carrying a concealed weapon is no different, or more valuable an accessory, than carrying a comfort dog in a bag.

I strongly believe that if the bastardized interpretation of the second amendment we've been gifted with was less supportive of concealed carry, open carry, bump stocks and on and on then some folks who vote unerringly for the most pro gun candidate might take a pause and consider other candidates. The fact is that pro gun candidates are also more likely to be racist, anti-LGBT, anti-science, anti-choice, anti-secular, and in my view, anti-common sense.

We also used to be a country with an animistic foundation. Those folks surely believed in personal responsibility. Christianity is just taking a turn at bat and their inning will also end whether its adherents like it or not.

The economy grew under Obama; Trumps economy is still an if. But it doesn't matter one iota to people like me. My concerns about your "faith, the Bible and the 2nd Amendment" and their respective negative impacts on our society can not be purchased with alms.

Also, I don't want you to go easy or not. I believe you have just one life before annihilation and you should live it as you choose. I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

I only ask that believers leave the rest of us alone.

Ditto from us regarding progressive liberals. We do not want your power and control over our lives.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

I just saw a meme depicting Bill Clinton and Janet Reno as the leaders in church murders.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.