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skinnay

Gun Violence: Whites vs. Islamic Terror

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I used the term the way it was used in our conversation. The meaning was a hail of bullets in a crossfire because so many carry firearms. It did not mean we would kill our brothers and sisters in Christ to neutralize the bad guy(s).

We talk different here than you people out there. Furthermore, if such an incident occurred in my church, I doubt that any innocents would be shot by one of us.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

I used the term the way it was used in our conversation. The meaning was a hail of bullets in a crossfire because so many carry firearms. It did not mean we would kill our brothers and sisters in Christ to neutralize the bad guy(s).


So where would all the bullets go?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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RonD1120

Into the bad guy(s) and the walls, the ceiling, the pews and my fellow parishioners. possibly with the idol mary copping one in the head.



ftfy, i wouldn't be surprised if someone also managed to shoot themselves.

perhaps you could have a role play session with nerf guns and let me know the outcome?

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The nerf gun idea is pretty good. The only alternative, and the one jakee is looking for, is for all of us to leave our weapons at home. That is not going to happen. Most of us carry and some even when at home. This is an armed community not just my church.

Oh, we are Protestant Pentecostal, no statues of Mary. We have a plain cross, the American flag and the Christian flag.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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This church shooting offers a good example of two concepts of thought, right or wrong. First its Texas where football, God, guns and freedom. Form the four corners to frame all thinking.

There has been no talk there of gun control. Likely just the dialog of everyone's duty to protect each other, with a gun. I saw two different programs where journalists were interviewing residents about guns. Either directly or obliquely addressing gun control. None of the residents were in favor of it.

The second is God, Jesus. What the more rabid atheists in these forums miss is the psychology of the human mind. Not forgetting that I'm a atheist. The function of God and faith in framing the thinking, psychology and frame of mind of "believers".

One of the major networks interviewed the wife and pastor of the church that was attacked. They were away and their daughter was among the parishioners that were killed. The wife's statement to media was inspiring. Talking about love, compassion, healing and faith. Other residents of the church and community were similarly predisposed to forgiving to leaning on their faith to get them through the psychological pain of this event.

Had it been most people it would more likely been how the USA farce screwed up in failing to report the felony conviction of the shooter to the FBI. Blaming the government for failing to fund mental health, etc.

In sports the psychology of the mind is a very important component. Confidence and focus on the technical aspects of performance. Are as important or more important. Than raw physical ability. For people who are religious in nature or who use religion to frame their thinking. Use it as a coping mechanism for stressful events. Like these rural areas of Texas. Faith is an important coping mechanism.

"In Texas, Almost Anyplace Can Be a Place to Carry a Gun
SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Tex. — Some Texans bring their guns to church on Sunday and to the office on Monday.

Students carry on college campuses in Texas, and foremen carry at the construction site. People carry in the Texas Capitol. They carry in their cars and on their boats. Republicans carry, and Democrats carry, too...

Even being so close to the shooting on Sunday — one of the members of his church lost a relative at First Baptist — Mr. Curry said he saw the attack and guns as two separate issues.

“I don’t blame objects for the good or the evil that people do with them,” Mr. Curry said. “Objects are not the problem. The problem is the evil that lurks in the human heart. Yes, the perpetrator used a gun, but he was stopped by a man with a gun.”

“You can’t stop every incident,” said Homer Flores, 59, who lives in a Houston suburb and has had a handgun license for more than 20 years. “What if the ushers at that church had been carrying a firearm concealed, and this guy started opening up? He may have only gotten off a few rounds before they dropped him.’’
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/texas-guns-church-shooting.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

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davenuk

***Into the bad guy(s) and the walls, the ceiling, the pews and my fellow parishioners. possibly with the idol mary copping one in the head.



ftfy, i wouldn't be surprised if someone also managed to shoot themselves.

perhaps you could have a role play session with nerf guns and let me know the outcome?

I don't think that you've had enough exposure to guns. In most if not all rural areas of N. America. If you're a male you're around guns and hunting. Kids are started out with BB or pellet guns at 9-10 years old. Then work their way up in firepower.

The first civilian to confront the Texas church shooter used a AR-15 from his home. The same weapon that the church shooter was using. He engaged the church shooter and shot him before he could get into his vehicle to escape.

Shooting and marksmanship is not a skill unique to law enforcement. Like most skills all it takes is practice. In addition hunting tends to overcome the "buck fever" that is associated with shooting at live targets. Something that many, many urban law enforcement officers will never deal with.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2014/04/two-ways-deal-buck-fever

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RonD1120

Into the bad guy(s) and the walls.


You're not good enough shots to hit the bad guy every time but you are good enough to not hit any of the good guys, despite the hail of bullets from multiple directions in a crowded space?

Is there a specific location in the church you envision the gunman standing to enable you to safely unleash this crossfire?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Quote

In addition hunting tends to overcome the "buck fever" that is associated with shooting at live targets.


Shooting at unarmed deer overcomes the stress associated with being shot at by an armed human?:|
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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jakee

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In addition hunting tends to overcome the "buck fever" that is associated with shooting at live targets.


Shooting at unarmed deer overcomes the stress associated with being shot at by an armed human?:|


LE has done all kinds of studies about the stress of shootouts and the failures to hit the target. They have developed shooting simulators similar to what the military has. Where video is used on shooting ranges to develop shooting reflex memory.

Obviously nothing is like the real thing. But the guy across from the church was able to outshoot the former USAF church shooter. Both armed with identical weapons.

Believe it or not in hunting situations I've had bullets pass by me within 10-30' no less than 1/2 dozen times. There have been countless situations where homeowners have killed intruders in the US with guns.

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You are thinking spray and pray. Not applicable in our community. At least not among those that I know personally.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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See, that is where you people get all jumbled up. It is not fear. It is freedom along with personal responsibility and training. We know that bad guys are out there and we are prepared.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Interesting.
You hide in the hills and need to carry all the time.
I live in Orlando and let my conceal carry expire.
After carrying, I found it to be a waste of time and effort and entirely unnecessary. (the 40 cal Sig was a bit large, the S&W 9mm was perfect though)
Still not afraid.

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Phil1111

***

Quote

In addition hunting tends to overcome the "buck fever" that is associated with shooting at live targets.


Shooting at unarmed deer overcomes the stress associated with being shot at by an armed human?:|


LE has done all kinds of studies about the stress of shootouts and the failures to hit the target. They have developed shooting simulators similar to what the military has. Where video is used on shooting ranges to develop shooting reflex memory.

Obviously nothing is like the real thing. But the guy across from the church was able to outshoot the former USAF church shooter. Both armed with identical weapons.

Believe it or not in hunting situations I've had bullets pass by me within 10-30' no less than 1/2 dozen times. There have been countless situations where homeowners have killed intruders in the US with guns.

Those simulators are great at developing marksmanship in perfect conditions, without the stress of an actual gunfight, which has proven essentially impossible to simulate.

The main reason I find the idea of CCW insane is that some armchair John McClane has virtually no chance of reacting effectively in a gunfight, and when I realize I'm somewhere where there are people with guns, I just tend to leave.

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31 years riding fire trucks.

I have seen way too much gun violence. I have seen the results of a lot of shootouts.

Bad guys against bad guys. Good guys against bad guys. Bad guys shooting at us. Cops shooting at good guys by mistake. Innocent bystanders shot. I have seen cops kill a person with one shot. I have seen them miss a person with over 80 shots from multiple officers.
I have seen shootouts happen in 7/11's. Banks. Houses. Warehouses. Electronic stores.
I have seen drive bys.

I'm no expert, but some of the comments here are pretty off base.

Carry on...

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It's gotten so when I see flags at half-mast, I don't know what it's for.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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