0
skinnay

Gun Violence: Whites vs. Islamic Terror

Recommended Posts

jakee

***Into the bad guy(s) and the walls.


You're not good enough shots to hit the bad guy every time but you are good enough to not hit any of the good guys, despite the hail of bullets from multiple directions in a crowded space?

Is there a specific location in the church you envision the gunman standing to enable you to safely unleash this crossfire?

Some churches will have a foyer between the front door and the pews. Standing or sitting in the corner of the worship area nearest the foyer would give you a line of sight clear of the last row of seats. Aim for the gunman before he reaches the pews.

If there's no foyer and the entrance opens directly into the worship area like you'll often see in small churches, you'll still have some room between the front wall and the last row of seats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
grimmie

We are discussing the best places in a church to corner an active shooter.:S[:/]

What the fuck.

America.

2017

if I owned a church, I would have a couple of .50 Browning M2’s at the entrance. Problem solved.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

See, that is where you people get all jumbled up. It is not fear. It is freedom along with personal responsibility and training. We know that bad guys are out there and we are prepared.



Just out of curiosity, what do you think the chances are of having an intruder come into your church (or anywhere in your community) to shoot a large number people?

Not an intruder targeting one person, but a shooting similar to the one in Texas.

One in a million?

One in a thousand?
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

And another shooting at a church in Fresno CA, two shot one fatal.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-shot-one-fatally-outside-church-in-fresno/ar-AAutt2K?ocid=spartanntp

We carry our weapons to church.



I have to wonder, was this guy evil and smart enough to target children so that people who could have been running away or rushing him were concentrating on helping their family. I know there were several children shot but not in what order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
piisfish

***We are discussing the best places in a church to corner an active shooter.:S[:/]

What the fuck.

America.

2017

if I owned a church, I would have a couple of .50 Browning M2’s at the entrance. Problem solved.

Next Sunday is officially "National Bring Your Gun To Worship Day". I wonder how many accidental shootings there will be?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I realize that Ron's somewhat flexible beliefs about how Christianity should treat the poor and economically disadvantaged in society. Together with his gun rights beliefs. May present ideological openings for theological counterpoints to his beliefs.

But some of the arguments and statements here would be denounced outright if they were made in the same reference to a mosque. Additionally the homicides and injuries in this little Texas church. Was as unspeakable as the Sandy Hook shooting if not more so.

The lack of experience with what a bullet does to flesh, the sickness of this entire equation and the frustration of political inaction. May be at play here.

But some comments in this thread are distasteful and over the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Additionally the homicides and injuries in this little Texas church. Was as unspeakable as the Sandy Hook shooting if not more so.



As an unspeakable slaughter of innocents it is on a par with other acts of mass murder committed by a single man. It is not really possible to rank these things by number. Personally I find events that are conspiracies of two to few people even more troubling. Of course atrocities of war, sanctioned by governments or other large organizations are even more disturbing.

The lists and particulars of the victims is so long that it is quite numbing to even consider. No matter who they are.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We talk different here than you people out there. You, Sir, have no idea who I am although you may have worked it out that I live in Oregon. Clearly, in your mind, I am defined.

I am not anti gun. In fact, recently I bought a Berretta 1301 Tactical 12 gage for home defense. I wasn't happy relying on my guns from my hunting day's.

Not withstanding, I absolutely think that when it comes to guns we are out of control in this country.

Military or replicant military guns are unnecessary. Background checks for all gun owners are reasonable. I also have no problem with registration.

The second amendment people can take aim at me as they surely will but in my mind no rational reading of the amendment confers the rights that the Supreme Court has granted by decision. So much for originalism when it doesn't suit the purpose it seems.

You doubt that any innocents would be shot by you or your brethren? Sir, your delusions know no bounds. I suppose yours would be a Heavenly Horrendous Crossfire and as all in the line of fire were believers, no worries and Bobs your uncle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think there is only a slim chance of an intruder into my church. Our total community does maintain a pioneer mountain reputation. We are the origin of the Trail of Tears and the Foxfire traditions. However, my wife and other wives worry about safety and that is good enough for me.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Evil is a given perception. I think he conjured some form of a plan since he started shooting from the outside which would create mass confusion prior to entrance. However, for some reason I believe he hated children. He attacked his stepson and fractured the boy's skull.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are no rules in a gunfight. The object is to be the last one standing. The Marines maintain that you should not enter a gunfight using a handgun with a caliber less than 4. Instructors say concentrate on the front sight and squeeze the trigger. We do not try to calculate the final outcome. We plan to do our very best, trust the Lord to guide our aim and to neutralize the threat. It is a potential gunfight. How else can you rationally consider it otherwise. Except of course, be an unarmed victim.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewGuy2005

Every time I carry mine when I take a long road trip I regret it. I never feel like I am in danger and will not carry it any more, except to the range.



It's certainly your choice to carry it or not, within the laws.

But... ask yourself this: is it better to have it and not need it, or to need it and not have it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

There are no rules in a gunfight. The object is to be the last one standing. The Marines maintain that you should not enter a gunfight using a handgun with a caliber less than 4. Instructors say concentrate on the front sight and squeeze the trigger. We do not try to calculate the final outcome. We plan to do our very best, trust the Lord to guide our aim and to neutralize the threat. It is a potential gunfight. How else can you rationally consider it otherwise. Except of course, be an unarmed victim.




As long as we are engaging in fantasy, would it not be better to have unarmed shooters?

Neat tidbit about Marine caliber philosophy and pistol instructor sighting advice. I'll gamble that you are currently neither a Marine or a Pistol instructor. I'll further venture that you've not recently-if ever-practiced your aim with live rounds in a crowded room.

No need really when outcomes are best calculated after the fact, all involved have good intentions and the locally popular deity is on your side.

Of course, if the good lord fails to guide our aim to neutralize the threat, Inshallah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?



Getting guns under control in the US is not something I'm optimistic about. But one thing I'm certain of is that we'd have a much better chance at it if the debates would ignore the impossible. People who want things like all guns to go away, or all gun owners to be tested for mental problems obviously have no idea how prevalent guns and gun owners are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
According Glenn Beck's monologue the other day, there are 314M guns in the U.S based on 2012 statistics. The murder rate by GSW is decreasing despite the mass shootings and Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, LA and other high crime cities.

Our population is what? Around 324M. It would be an overwhelming task to challenge, test, license and insure all the gun owners. Why? Only law abiding citizens could be identified. Many otherwise law abiding folks would hide their guns. The bad guys would always have their weapons.

This is like trying to control the earth's climate. There are many good ideas it is just that the job is to large.

Remember, I am a pragmatist with strange ideas.

I recall Nicolas Cage in The Lord of War? To paraphrase, there are 314M guns in a population of 324M people. That is almost one gun per person. The real question becomes, how do we arm the other 10M?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob_Church

***I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?



Getting guns under control in the US is not something I'm optimistic about. But one thing I'm certain of is that we'd have a much better chance at it if the debates would ignore the impossible. People who want things like all guns to go away, or all gun owners to be tested for mental problems obviously have no idea how prevalent guns and gun owners are.

So, what is your suggestion?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rushmc

******I've gotten lost in your rhetoric. What exactly are you trying to point out as an embarrassment to me?

I live in a community and attend a church where many members carry concealed and are comfortable with the practice. For me, and I believe I share this sentiment with the others, a concealed firearm is simply part of my everyday wardrobe, like socks and underwear.

What are you looking for?



Getting guns under control in the US is not something I'm optimistic about. But one thing I'm certain of is that we'd have a much better chance at it if the debates would ignore the impossible. People who want things like all guns to go away, or all gun owners to be tested for mental problems obviously have no idea how prevalent guns and gun owners are.

So, what is your suggestion?

"But one thing I'm certain of is that we'd have a much better chance at it if the debates would ignore the impossible."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

According Glenn Beck's monologue the other day, there are 314M guns in the U.S based on 2012 statistics. The murder rate by GSW is decreasing despite the mass shootings and Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, LA and other high crime cities.

Our population is what? Around 324M. It would be an overwhelming task to challenge, test, license and insure all the gun owners. Why? Only law abiding citizens could be identified. Many otherwise law abiding folks would hide their guns. The bad guys would always have their weapons.

This is like trying to control the earth's climate. There are many good ideas it is just that the job is to large.

Remember, I am a pragmatist with strange ideas.

I recall Nicolas Cage in The Lord of War? To paraphrase, there are 314M guns in a population of 324M people. That is almost one gun per person. The real question becomes, how do we arm the other 10M?



The 0>6 age group has traditionally not been a large consumer of firearms so that may account for some of that gap. Perhaps because manufactures have not dedicated enough R&D to engineer smaller guns for their tiny hands. If we have any luck this event may provide an initiative to finally get quality gun access for all americans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0