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billvon

Trump tax plan

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gowlerk

The plan I see drops the deduction for state and local taxes, but as a "compromise", keeps it for property taxes. In other words renters will be required to subsidize owners.



Yep. I just did a back of the envelope calculation and I will pay more as result of consolidation of the brackets and the removal of the state and local income tax deduction.
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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Skwrl

***The plan I see drops the deduction for state and local taxes, but as a "compromise", keeps it for property taxes. In other words renters will be required to subsidize owners.



Yep. I just did a back of the envelope calculation and I will pay more as result of consolidation of the brackets and the removal of the state and local income tax deduction.

More than that its a transfer of POWER from the local,states to the federal level. If the cities, local, states want to initiate a program or expand one . The total costs are borne by the state taxpayer with no federal deduction. So the feds can expand programs with tax deductibility but the states can't.

This hobbles cities, municipalities and states rights.

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Skwrl

***The plan I see drops the deduction for state and local taxes, but as a "compromise", keeps it for property taxes. In other words renters will be required to subsidize owners.



Yep. I just did a back of the envelope calculation and I will pay more as result of consolidation of the brackets and the removal of the state and local income tax deduction.

So will we, but that's what the GOP wanted anyway.

But at least I won't have to do the AMT calculation any more.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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kallend

******The plan I see drops the deduction for state and local taxes, but as a "compromise", keeps it for property taxes. In other words renters will be required to subsidize owners.



Yep. I just did a back of the envelope calculation and I will pay more as result of consolidation of the brackets and the removal of the state and local income tax deduction.

So will we, but that's what the GOP wanted anyway.

But at least I won't have to do the AMT calculation any more.

I have an LL.M. in tax, and I have TurboTax do it (in part because of AMT is a hassle to compute).
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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Republicans have tried to sell their tax plan using the argument that US tax rates are uncompetitive. That high US rates drive jobs overseas. That unless corporate rates change corporations will move overseas.

FALSE

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Competitiveness_Report#2017.E2.80.932018_rankings

https://www2.deloitte.com/global/en/pages/manufacturing/articles/global-manufacturing-competitiveness-index.html

https://www.weforum.org/reports/the-global-competitiveness-report-2017-2018

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Funny that the usual folks who rally to support whatever Trump says aren’t out in force in this thread. Could it be that they actually are starting to realize Big Daddy Trump might not have the little guy’s interest at heart after all?
Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

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Skwrl

Funny that the usual folks who rally to support whatever Trump says aren’t out in force in this thread. Could it be that they actually are starting to realize Big Daddy Trump might not have the little guy’s interest at heart after all?




It's not really Trump's plan. It's Ryan's plan with some input from Trump. Tax policy is complicated. Who knew?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

***Funny that the usual folks who rally to support whatever Trump says aren’t out in force in this thread. Could it be that they actually are starting to realize Big Daddy Trump might not have the little guy’s interest at heart after all?




It's not really Trump's plan. It's Ryan's plan with some input from Trump. Tax policy is complicated. Who knew?

So's healthcare apparently.

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If anyone was wondering why this tax bill looks the way it does:
========================
Trump Could Save More Than $1 Billion Under His New Tax Plan
By JESSE DRUCKER and NADJA POPOVICH
SEPT. 28, 2017
NYT

President Trump could cut his tax bills by more than $1.1 billion, including saving tens of millions of dollars in a single year, under his proposed tax changes, a New York Times analysis has found.

On Wednesday, the White House announced a sweeping plan to cut a variety of taxes that would overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy. The estimate of Mr. Trump’s savings is based in part on information from his 2005 federal tax return. The analysis compares what his tax burden would be under current law with what it would be under the proposal.

Mr. Trump’s 2005 return is the most recent available publicly and was released in March by David Cay Johnston on the website DCReport.org. The Times’s figure also relies on an estimate of Mr. Trump’s net worth, calculated by the Bloomberg Billionaire’s Index to be $2.86 billion.

“I don’t benefit. I don’t benefit,” Mr. Trump said on Wednesday. “In fact, very, very strongly, as you see, I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

In fact, high-income earners like Mr. Trump are likely to benefit disproportionately if the White House proposal becomes law. The estimates, calculated with the help of Robert Willens, an accounting expert, and Stephen Breitstone, a tax lawyer, provide a view into precisely how.
==========================

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billvon

If anyone was wondering why this tax bill looks the way it does:
========================
Trump Could Save More Than $1 Billion Under His New Tax Plan
By JESSE DRUCKER and NADJA POPOVICH
SEPT. 28, 2017
NYT

President Trump could cut his tax bills by more than $1.1 billion, including saving tens of millions of dollars in a single year, under his proposed tax changes, a New York Times analysis has found.

On Wednesday, the White House announced a sweeping plan to cut a variety of taxes that would overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy. The estimate of Mr. Trump’s savings is based in part on information from his 2005 federal tax return. The analysis compares what his tax burden would be under current law with what it would be under the proposal.

Mr. Trump’s 2005 return is the most recent available publicly and was released in March by David Cay Johnston on the website DCReport.org. The Times’s figure also relies on an estimate of Mr. Trump’s net worth, calculated by the Bloomberg Billionaire’s Index to be $2.86 billion.

“I don’t benefit. I don’t benefit,” Mr. Trump said on Wednesday. “In fact, very, very strongly, as you see, I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

In fact, high-income earners like Mr. Trump are likely to benefit disproportionately if the White House proposal becomes law. The estimates, calculated with the help of Robert Willens, an accounting expert, and Stephen Breitstone, a tax lawyer, provide a view into precisely how.
==========================



But, but, he told a group of Dem congresspersons that the rich would pay more. Could he possibly have been LYING?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Republicans are in a state of PANIC!!!

If the new tax bill isn't passed then the gravy train will DRY UP!!!

Graham: 'Financial contributions will stop' if GOP doesn't pass tax reform
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/359606-graham-financial-contributions-will-stop-if-gop-doesnt-pass-tax-reform

Somehow I doubt its the "little guy living paycheck to paycheck"..er... suckers... that voted for trump that are making these $100k donations to the party. To pay for a big tax relief party!

Only in the US can a couple hundred grand donation result in $1.75 trillion in benefits for the rich and big corporations.

Research group says GOP tax bill costs $1.75 trillion
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/359030-research-group-says-gop-tax-bill-costs-175-trillion

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billvon

Over 400 millionaires recently wrote to Congress imploring them to not increase the deficit and widen the class divide, even if it means that they themselves won't get a sweet tax cut.

Cool that some people still have a conscience.



Warren Buffett and Larry Fink criticize Trump's tax plan

"We have a lot of businesses... I don't think any of them are non-competitive in the world because of the corporate tax rate," Buffett, thechairmanand CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, told CNBC.

Fink said a corporate rate as high as 27 percent could satisfy U.S. businesses' need for tax relief, while avoiding an increase in the federal deficit.

"What is being proposed is a pretty large expansion of our deficits," Fink told Bloomberg TV.

Larry Fink with $5.7 trillion under management and Warren Buffet with $620 Billion. But what do they know?

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Phil1111


Larry Fink with $5.7 trillion under management and Warren Buffet with $620 Billion. But what do they know?



They know how to grow the economy. They know how dangerous huge government deficits are.

They aren't dumb.

But the Koch Bros sure seem to be. They (well, two of their "SuperPACs anyway) are running attack ads here in WI. They are going after Sen Tammy Baldwin, claiming that the "Tax Reform" (boy, is that a misnomer) would benefit "average workers".

Yet, the plan would do a fair amount of damage for small businesses who want to provide 401k programs. Go figure.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Latest on the Senate version:
=======================
Senate GOP tax bill hurts the poor more than originally thought, CBO finds
By Heather Long
November 26
WaPo

The Senate Republican tax plan gives substantial tax cuts and benefits to Americans earning more than $100,000 a year, while the nation’s poorest would be worse off, according to a report released Sunday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

Republicans are aiming to have the full Senate vote on the tax plan as early as this week, but the new CBO analysis showing large, harmful effects on the poor may complicate those plans. The CBO also said the bill would add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over the next decade, a potential problem for Republican lawmakers worried about America’s growing debt.

. . .

By 2019, Americans earning less than $30,000 a year would be worse off under the Senate bill, CBO found. By 2021, Americans earning $40,000 or less would be net losers, and by 2027, most people earning less than $75,000 a year would be worse off. On the flip side, millionaires and those earning $100,000 to $500,000 would be big beneficiaries, according to the CBO’s calculations.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/26/senate-gop-tax-bill-hurts-the-poor-more-than-originally-thought-cbo-finds/?utm_term=.8783ca09417a
======================

So hammers the poor, helps the rich, puts us over a trillion in debt. Sounds like a Trump plan alright.

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Donald Trump Tax Plan Would Be A Bonanza For NFL Owners

Trump’s campaign promises included eliminating the estate tax. The tax only hit 2 out of 1,000 estates last year, but sports team owners are all candidates to face the tax and no league has more at risk than the NFL.

The average NFL franchise is worth $2.5 billion thanks to national media deals worth more than $7 billion a year. Valuations range from the Buffalo Bills ($1.6 billion) to the Dallas Cowboys ($4.8 billion), who rank as the most valuable sports franchise in the world. Cowboys’ owner Jerry Jones, 75, is worth $5.6 billion and his estate would face a federal tax bill up to 40% of his worth—after deductions and a hefty lifetime exemption—under the current "death" tax structure.

Half of NFL teams are owned by people who are at least 70 years old, including nine of the 12 most valuable franchises (all worth more than $2.5 billion). Eighteen NFL owners cracked the FORBES 400 this year where the net worth cutoff was $2 billion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2017/10/30/while-trump-attacks-nfl-league-owners-would-be-huge-beneficiaries-of-his-tax-plan/#186c35d066ed

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Quick summary of this:

Trump claimed that this tax cut will pay for itself by economic growth. Treasury promised an analysis to show this is true. They did the analysis - and are now not talking about it, and have given up on any new analyses.

==============
In pitching the $1.5 trillion tax overhaul, Steven Mnuchin, the Treasury secretary, has said repeatedly that the plan will pay for itself through a surge of economic growth and that over 100 people in Treasury are “working around the clock on running scenarios for us.”

Mr. Mnuchin has promised that Treasury will release its analysis in full. Yet, just one day before the full Senate prepares to vote on a sweeping tax rewrite, the administration has yet to produce the type of economic analysis that it is citing as a reason to pass the tax cut. . .

A Treasury official said that there was not sufficient time to produce a full analysis with growth and revenue estimates of the final bill, which the Senate Finance Committee passed before Thanksgiving. . .

The lack of any formal assessment of the bills’ economic effect from the administration comes as Republicans barrel ahead with a plan that is expected to add $1.5 trillion to the deficit at a time when the federal debt has already topped $20 trillion. Deficit hawks, including lawmakers like Senators Bob Corker of Tennessee and Jeff Flake of Arizona, have been asking for analyses that show how the plan will avoid ballooning the deficit, which reached $666 billion, or 3.5 percent of gross domestic product, for fiscal 2017.

. . .

Mr. Mnuchin, in an interview in October, said that he was prepared to rebut such differences.

“There is certain things we’ll agree with Joint Tax, there’s certain things we won’t necessarily agree with Joint Tax and we’ll explain the differences,” Mr. Mnuchin said. “We want complete visibility.”

Thus far, such visibility has remained out of reach. The only detailed study of the Republican tax framework that the administration has released was a report published by the Council of Economic Advisers in October that asserted that the corporate tax cut proposal would increase a typical household’s income by $3,000 to $7,000 a year.

A spokeswoman for the council said that no additional analyses of the tax bills were currently in the works. A spokesman for the Office of Management and Budget said that he was unaware of any new reports from the agency about the economic impact of the tax bills.
================

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/politics/treasury-analysis-tax-bill.html?_r=1

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I would like to propose a new plan. Instead of arranging things so that the richest people save lots and then "trickle down" happens I suggest that y'all try a plan that puts more money into the hands of the poorest. They will quickly spend it and it will end up with the rich anyway. I call this process "percolate up".

I will probably donate a large portion of my Nobel economics prize to a worthy charity. Like Trump would.

Remember the new buzz words, Percolate Up!
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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This story represents the analysis of over 100 economists regarding the trump-republican tax bill. The best summary of the net effect is:

The nonpartisan Penn Wharton Budget Model team at the University of Pennsylvania’s graduate business school earlier this month predicted that national-debt increases of between $1.4 trillion and $1.6 trillion by 2027 under the Senate Republicans’ Tax Cuts and Jobs Act will not be offset by modest GDP increases of between 0.3 percent and 0.8 percent compared to what we’d see without the tax changes.

A similar projection by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington estimated additional GDP growth at 0.3 percent in 2027.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-perspec-zorn-booth-experts-tax-reform-1129-20171128-story.html

I somewhat discount the Wharton one a bit, because thats the diploma mill that issued one in trumps name.

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