Much better her than a toddler.

[jclalor 12]

When you adopt a pitbull with a history of aggression, shit happens.


http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/one-of-the-pit-bulls-involved-in-fatal-mauling-had/article_4bf7ffd3-59b7-5697-bdbb-6910a038432e.html

[Bob_Church 7]

jclalor

When you adopt a pitbull with a history of aggression, shit happens.


http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/one-of-the-pit-bulls-involved-in-fatal-mauling-had/article_4bf7ffd3-59b7-5697-bdbb-6910a038432e.html

But I've personally never been killed by a pitbull so they must be safe.

[RMK 3]

We have this same pitbull "shit" in the UK.

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people. You never hear of a story of a cocker spaniel going mad and killing or biting a child's face off.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

They are the current "Bad Dog", just like Dobermans, German Shepherds, Rottweilers and others in the past.

Idiots who want to pretend to be "tough" get them, abuse them and they are vicious dogs.
"Trash People" have bad dogs. Breed doesn't matter.

Lots of different dog breeds have attacked and injured or killed kids. You are more likely to hear about a Pit doing it because it's "more newsworthy."

They are also terriers. The biggest of the group. That's a group of dogs that has been specifically bred to chase, catch and kill small animals. If you've ever seen a good rat terrier go after a crowd of rats, then you've seen what they do. Pits do the same thing, it's a breed trait. It's just that there's a big difference between a 15 lb rat terrier and an 80 lb Pit.

Properly trained and socialized, they are amazingly loyal and loving dogs. Just like any other breed.
Some of Michael Vick's fighting dogs have been rehabilitated and are now good family pets.

My sisters have 3 pits between the two of them. The younger has 2 kids and a whole bunch of cats (5 at last count). And two large Pits.

The dogs are well trained, well socialized and members of the family.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rifleman 61]

Oddly enough, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier has a historical reputation for being good with children when properly trained to the extent that it had the nickname "nanny dog"

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/staffie.shtml

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[normiss 620]

My kids grew up with an AKC registered champion American Staffordshire Terrier.
She was an amazing companion to my girls and was never aggressive in any way.

Thanks to State Farm's access to databases, my homeowners insurance was cancelled for having "an aggressive breed animal". I tried to complain to them that she was a registered show dog, they didn't care.
So I cancelled 2 cars, a boat, and a motorcycle coverage with them and still refuse to use their products.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

rifleman

Oddly enough, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier has a historical reputation for being good with children when properly trained to the extent that it had the nickname "nanny dog"

https://www.doglistener.co.uk/choosing/staffie.shtml

I was going to use that term in my post, but searching around a bit seems to show that the "Nanny Dog" is just a myth.

https://www.tethertug.com/blogs/news/5-biggest-myths-about-pitbulls-busted

In general, I wouldn't leave any dog unsupervised with small kids. The kids don't always "speak dog" well and may do something to set the dog off.
Although I've seen dogs put up with an amazing amount of mistreatment from kids (not being mean, just "playing") with no complaint. I saw a little girl pin a dog to the ground by grabbing the tips of his ears and pulling down. Until I could stop her (within seconds), the dog just lay there with a "please rescue me from her" look on his face. Never growled or snarled or anything aggressive.

Did the dog know that the kid was "off limits"?
Did the dog know that the kid didn't mean to hurt it, just didn't know any better?

No clue. He was rewarded and told he was a good dog, and was happy that the kid was kept away for the rest of the time I was there.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[Bob_Church 7]

RMK

We have this same pitbull "shit" in the UK.

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people. You never hear of a story of a cocker spaniel going mad and killing or biting a child's face off.

I rate things for danger based on how quickly people start yelling "it could happen with any (insert thing that's killing people left and right) at any time". You can tell they've had a lot of practice defending whatever it is. One of the first stories I saw today was a woman killed by a pitbull and I assumed it was the same story but no, a woman was killed and her husband chewed up by one in Kentucky last night.

[Phil1111 905]

Bob_Church

***We have this same pitbull "shit" in the UK.

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people. You never hear of a story of a cocker spaniel going mad and killing or biting a child's face off.

I rate things for danger based on how quickly people start yelling "it could happen with any (insert thing that's killing people left and right) at any time". You can tell they've had a lot of practice defending whatever it is. One of the first stories I saw today was a woman killed by a pitbull and I assumed it was the same story but no, a woman was killed and her husband chewed up by one in Kentucky last night.

I think Joe hit the nail on the head. trashy people seem drawn to pitbulls.

Montreal just went through a big pitbull affair.
"Leader Lionel Perez said the city's own data suggests the number of dog bites related to pit bulls accounted for 40 per cent of the total bites reported in 2016 and 2017, even though they represent just three per cent of canines in the city."
So they were banned then the ban just rescinded.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-pit-bull-ban-1.4458038

The license should be required for all the owners of that breed.

[Bob_Church 7]

Phil1111

******We have this same pitbull "shit" in the UK.

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people. You never hear of a story of a cocker spaniel going mad and killing or biting a child's face off.

I rate things for danger based on how quickly people start yelling "it could happen with any (insert thing that's killing people left and right) at any time". You can tell they've had a lot of practice defending whatever it is. One of the first stories I saw today was a woman killed by a pitbull and I assumed it was the same story but no, a woman was killed and her husband chewed up by one in Kentucky last night.

I think Joe hit the nail on the head. trashy people seem drawn to pitbulls.

Montreal just went through a big pitbull affair.
"Leader Lionel Perez said the city's own data suggests the number of dog bites related to pit bulls accounted for 40 per cent of the total bites reported in 2016 and 2017, even though they represent just three per cent of canines in the city."
So they were banned then the ban just rescinded.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-pit-bull-ban-1.4458038

The license should be required for all the owners of that breed.

I agree but how does that help? The people two doors down from us have a pitbull that I love. I really do. And when she gets out and runs I follow her and make sure nobody shoots her. These two people are responsible. But if the white trash living up by Carpenter road ever get a pitbull instead of just dozens of cats that run wild, what then? The people killed and injured last night didn't own the dog, had no control of it's life. It sounds like they didn't even know the guy. It came over and attacked them. Should people have to live with the idea that if one of their neighbors doesn't follow a checklist that dog will kill them or the kids riding their bikes. And as for the "it could happen with any dog." Ok, name the incidents. Dogs killing kids make the news. Let's see all the articles about other types of dogs going off because of their worthless owners and killing people who have nothing to do with them. And not the bait and switch of bites, I'm talking about ripping a child's face off or killing people. No problem if they handle the dog correctly. Dogs that have to be raised and treated in specific ways to keep them from killing the neighbors should not have neighbors. That article about the woman killed last night and her husband hospitalized was over half about how the problem was that the neighbor didn't raise it properly, so no problem. Who f-ing cares?

[Bob_Church 7]

Sorry to get so worked up about this, but living in Appalachia, the topic of neighbors and what they let their animals do is a hot topic.

[Phil1111 905]

I see so many owners of pitbull pups dragging their dogs on leashes. Or having the dogs pulling on the leashes such that the owner is leaning back against the leash with all their force.

I feel bad for the dogs but what can you do against stupidity. The owners don't have a clue. Not to say that there are not other stupid dog owners. But as mentioned already. Too many stupid people get pitbulls because of their reputation. Then the prophecy gets fulfilled. Because the owners can't be bothered to train, teach obedience, or even love their pets. They are merely a macho tool to show off how tough they are.

[Bob_Church 7]

Phil1111

I see so many owners of pitbull pups dragging their dogs on leashes. Or having the dogs pulling on the leashes such that the owner is leaning back against the leash with all their force.

I feel bad for the dogs but what can you do against stupidity. The owners don't have a clue. Not to say that there are not other stupid dog owners. But as mentioned already. Too many stupid people get pitbulls because of their reputation. Then the prophecy gets fulfilled. Because the owners can't be bothered to train, teach obedience, or even love their pets. They are merely a macho tool to show off how tough they are.

True, but it's not just this. There are way too many other examples instead of just your homeboy or Michael Vick wannabes. I think the situation is that the results of abusing a pitbull are much worse than the results of abusing other types of dogs.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

Bob_Church

Sorry to get so worked up about this, but living in Appalachia, the topic of neighbors and what they let their animals do is a hot topic.

Yeah, it's not just Appalachia.

It's everywhere.

But that has very little to do with the dog (or the dog breed).

It's owner stupidity.

I used to walk my little Yorkie every day. There were "more than a few" idiots who had no problem letting their dogs run loose and menace my dog, yet had big problems when I defended myself and my dog.

After a repeated incident with one particular person (dog was a Border Collie), I went to the cop shop and had a conversation with a Sergeant.

The cops in my town are not terribly busy and are willing to respond to "dog at large" calls. Their philosophy is that they want to know if there is a "bad owner". So if there was a loose dog and an idiot owner, I called them. It happened several times.

If I had to defend myself (with a solid kick or pepper spray), the owners would get indignant. I would simply ask "do you want to discuss this with the cops?"
The idiot owners were very surprised when the cop arriving on scene looked at them and asked "why wasn't your dog secured?"

I'd like (love) to see 'owner licensing' requirements. For any dog. Minimum training and understanding of laws and proper care.
The local Humane Association offers classes for a minimal charge. Strongly suggested for folks adopting a dog and I think they require it for first time dog adopters (included with the adoption fee IIRC).

Pit Bulls aren't any worse (or any better) than any other large dog breed.
It was Dobermans in the 80s, and German Shepherds in the 70s.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DanG 1]

Quote

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people.

Skydiving's a sport? That's utter bullshit, it's a bunch of death-seeking drunks and drug addicts without real jobs or responsibilities.

- Dan G

[DanG 1]

Quote

I feel bad for responsible gun owners but what can you do against stupidity. The owners don't have a clue. Not to say that there are not other stupid gun owners. But as mentioned already. Too many stupid people get guns because of their reputation. Then the prophecy gets fulfilled. Because the owners can't be bothered to train, teach obedience, or even love their unattended children. They are merely a macho tool to show off how tough they are.

Do you want to ban guns, too? Care to compare how many people are accidentally killed by guns vs killed by pitbulls?

- Dan G

[Bob_Church 7]

Jaeger worries me a lot. He's an incredibly sweet dog but he looks like his day job is guarding the gates of Hell. Every once in awhile he gets out during the day and goes trotting around the neighborhood. I can't catch him but I try to stay close enough to at least try to keep someone from shooting him.

[skinnay 0]

RMK

Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people.

I've spent a long time rehabilitating dogs in some very extreme abuse cases. I don't have time to argue with people who know nothing about the subject, but I will just say I recommend you take some time and volunteer at a local animal rescue. You might actually learn something.

[BartsDaddy 4]

skinnay

***
Misunderstood breed? That's utter bullshit; they're trash dogs for trash people.

I've spent a long time rehabilitating dogs in some very extreme abuse cases. I don't have time to argue with people who know nothing about the subject, but I will just say I recommend you take some time and volunteer at a local animal rescue. You might actually learn something.
Unfortunately when it comes to Pitts most people all ready have a mindset of if they are bad or just another dog.
My mom has never been around one close, but hates them because of the news stories. Yet loves every other type of animal.
Growing up she had a bear cub for about 6 months , a deer for about a year,a racoon and many other smaller pets. She grew up in a lumber company town.
I still can't get her to see they are another dog. Some good. Some bad.

Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle

[Phil1111 905]

DanG

Quote

I feel bad for responsible gun owners but what can you do against stupidity. The owners don't have a clue. Not to say that there are not other stupid gun owners. But as mentioned already. Too many stupid people get guns because of their reputation. Then the prophecy gets fulfilled. Because the owners can't be bothered to train, teach obedience, or even love their unattended children. They are merely a macho tool to show off how tough they are.

Do you want to ban guns, too? Care to compare how many people are accidentally killed by guns vs killed by pitbulls?

I'm not quite sure of the point,or analogy you're trying to make. Certainly Ms. Stephens, 22 years old, didn't deserve the somewhat disrespective title of this thread.

Pitbulls have the title today that dobermans did in the 1960's. While I agree most all dogs can be rehabilitated given the proper training, time and a owner/trainer who knows animal psychology. Just saying it can be done. Dosn't mean every combination of animal and trainer/owner can make it happen.

Pitbulls, German shepherds, etc. have been bred for certain characteristic over the last 500 years or so. People have raised lions, cougars, grizzly bears, etc. as pets and circus performers. For just as long. Just as trained elephants occasionally "go berzerk" and for no logical reason kill their trainers. Certain breeds of dogs can get aggressive and attack. Just as cross breeds can. In India cobras are incorporated into snake charming acts to put food on the table. Dosn't mean they should be pets.

To date there has been no logical motivation put forward as to why a millionaire, white, 64 year old man,no history of abuse, no criminal history and a concealed weapons license. Would act worse than this pitbull. But one did in Las Vegas. Thats another thread.

[RMK 3]

skinnay

I've spent a long time rehabilitating dogs in some very extreme abuse cases. I don't have time to argue with people who know nothing about the subject, but I will just say I recommend you take some time and volunteer at a local animal rescue. You might actually learn something.

I'd never harm an animal, but I'm just not a "dog person". It may sound harsh, but if you've got a dog that's gone a bit mad; have it put down.

When all children and vulnerable persons have been attended to, then we can spend time with cats/dogs.

I live the global capital of dog lovers (the UK is dog crazy), but I find it odd that "dog people" just don't get that not everyone are in love with dogs.

"Pain is the best instructor, but no one wants to attend his classes"

[gowlerk 1,901]

Yup, dogs are ok and I like them just fine. But when people ask for money for no kill shelters while walking past hungry homeless people I just don't get it.

[Bob_Church 7]

"Pitbulls have the title today that dobermans did in the 1960's. While I agree most all dogs can be rehabilitated given the proper training, time and a owner/trainer who knows animal psychology. Just saying it can be done. Dosn't mean every combination of animal and trainer/owner can make it happen. "

Something I wonder about and would like your opinion on. Unfortunately dogs get mistreated or neglected every day. Pretty much any species. It's hard to even write about because when you think of what dogs will do for us it's hard to imagine someone abusing one, but it's everywhere.
Ok, back to what I'm wondering about. Do you think pitfalls react differently to being abused or ignored than other breeds?

[Phil1111 905]

Because they are inherently powerful a bite can have more consequence. They are not as intuitive as some other breeds. In the absence of abuse and the hands of a knowledgeable canine psychology owner. They should be as safe as the average dog. I have only owned a German Shepherd and a mix of indeterminable breed.

I personally like dogs and cats equally.

[wolfriverjoe 1,339]

RMK

***

I've spent a long time rehabilitating dogs in some very extreme abuse cases. I don't have time to argue with people who know nothing about the subject, but I will just say I recommend you take some time and volunteer at a local animal rescue. You might actually learn something.

I'd never harm an animal, but I'm just not a "dog person". It may sound harsh, but if you've got a dog that's gone a bit mad; have it put down.

When all children and vulnerable persons have been attended to, then we can spend time with cats/dogs.

I live the global capital of dog lovers (the UK is dog crazy), but I find it odd that "dog people" just don't get that not everyone are in love with dogs.

First off, please define "Go a bit mad." I doubt you are talking about the classic definition of "Mad Dog" (rabid).
Neurological issues? Most likely need to be euthanized.
Behavioral issues? May (or may not) respond to rehabilitation.

And why should "people come first"? To be honest, I like most dogs more than I like most people.
To insist that "all vulnerable persons" be attended to first is your priority.

Others have different priorities. I fully understand that not all people love dogs.
But some do.

Bob_Church

...It's hard to even write about because when you think of what dogs will do for us it's hard to imagine someone abusing one, but it's everywhere.
Ok, back to what I'm wondering about. Do you think pitfalls react differently to being abused or ignored than other breeds?

Well, the abuse of dogs (and people and just about everything else) is simply the reality of the world. Bad people do bad things.
I can't fix or change that, I can simply try to make my little corner of the world a better place. And do what I can to not make it worse.

And no, I don't think that Pit Bulls react differently. But because of their size and power, they can do more damage. True of any larger breed.

I knew a Dachshund that was a miniature terror. Never properly trained or socialized, and abused by ignorant children (didn't mean to be mean, but didn't know how to treat a dog).

Her hip (the dog's) had been dislocated by one of the kids when the kid grabbed the dog by the back leg to keep it from getting away.
It was never recognized or diagnosed or treated.

She began to bite the kid (not terribly surprising or unreasonable) and was going to be put down. A friend took her in as a second dachshund (already had one) and spent a lot of time and energy working with her to socialize and basically get her to "mellow out". She had to be taught to trust people again.

She was still very willful, and my friend had to stay on top of the training to keep her from "backsliding", but she gave the dog several more very good years. Her hip finally deteriorated to the point that she couldn't move her back legs and she had to be put down, but she was a pretty decent and friendly little dog after the rehab.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo