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Phil1111

Should trump Apologize to Africa for Comments?

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The problem with calling a place a shithole is that it shows a complete lack of interest in finding out about a place. Just about all these "shitholes" have significant people who have lives, families, businesses, and love these aspects of where they're from. Just like Americans don't think where they are is perfect, they know their places aren't perfect. Sometimes WAY not perfect, yeah. But if you judge places as exemplified by their worst, just as when you judge them by their best, your falling prey to propaganda.
Some of those "shacks" aren't bad inside even by US standards. And they're homes to the people who live there. Some are, but we can help Flint improve its water supply, ya know. Fix the power imbalance, you generally improve the "shithole" immensely.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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metalslug

I was born on the African continent and lived there most of my life, I'm as African as most DZcommers are American.
I regard Trump's comment as being objectively offensive although I'm not offended by it because I'm sufficiently secure in my identity and I consider the source.

Would an apology really give anyone satisfaction ? It's not going to change Trump's mindset on anything, he'll just be more careful in future regarding who he shares an honest opinion with.
An apology in this context would be akin to "I'm sorry those comments were made public" because nobody would believe anything more sincere.



Right, it's not like a forced or required apology means anything. I don't get this emphasis on meaningless apologies we seem to be hearing from someone or other every day.

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muff528

***Who called the place of shithole?



Some folks right here on this forum. .......waaaaay before the trumpster was pres.

Which doesn't mean much does it?

I mean lots of people can say stuff on here, but it sounds rather differently coming from the president of the US.

I mean, posters on here could say US military are knuckle dragging murderers, but it really wouldn't mean much. Now imagine the president of the US saying the same thing.

But then, I am sure you would be honest enough to come on here and say how it didn't matter because a member of dz.com said it first.

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SkyDekker

******Who called the place of shithole?



Some folks right here on this forum. .......waaaaay before the trumpster was pres.

Which doesn't mean much does it?

Wasn't meant to "mean" anything. Just answering a question.

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I mean lots of people can say stuff on here, but it sounds rather differently coming from the president of the US.



Sounds the same to me. "Shithole" sounds like "shithole" or "shit hole" no matter who says it. Someone saying a place is a shithole doesn't make that place a shithole. Not any more than saying a place is not a shithole makes that place not a shithole. Only the place has control over that.

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I mean, posters on here could say US military are knuckle dragging murderers, but it really wouldn't mean much. Now imagine the president of the US saying the same thing.



I think only our Secretary of State said that once. But he was a Presidential candidate, so, does that count?

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But then, I am sure you would be honest enough to come on here and say how it didn't matter because a member of dz.com said it first.



It really doesn't matter! A shithole is a shithole no matter who says it. My point really was that a few of the folks here that called the country a shithole are the same folks who are condemning, or at least lambasting, Trump for saying it.

But, I don't think the term "shithole" is defined by specific parameters which might apply to a place or country. I suppose everyone has a different sense of what that might mean. I''ll be honest enough to say that as a person who has not visited many of the countries that I might consider shitholes, my opinion is based only on what I can know about that country through what I'm told or what I can see happening. Sometimes I'm wrong and sometimes I'm right.

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Lots of people have used the term shithole. That is not even close to the same as having the POTUS declaring that he doesn't want to allow people from shithole countries to live in the US. Because it is obvious to all the he does not consider them good enough to be Americans. Some Americans agree with him. Most don't. As an non American, my opinion is that the more Americans agree with him, the more America will be a shithole country itself.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

Lots of people have used the term shithole. That is not even close to the same as having the POTUS declaring that he doesn't want to allow people from shithole countries to live in the US. Because it is obvious to all the he does not consider them good enough to be Americans. Some Americans agree with him. Most don't. As an non American, my opinion is that the more Americans agree with him, the more America will be a shithole country itself.



Well, I don't have the same "take" on his intent WRT immigration as some others. But, if we do gain "shithole" status, that may, in itself, inhibit immigration. May be better than a wall.

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He clearly said he wanted more Norwegians and less people from shitholes. Do you not think he was advocating a more "whites only" policy? The funny thing is that the more he gets his way the less people from affluent counties will want to go there. But poor dark skinned people will still be beating down the doors.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

He clearly said he wanted more Norwegians and less people from shitholes. Do you not think he was advocating a more "whites only" policy? The funny thing is that the more he gets his way the less people from affluent counties will want to go there. But poor dark skinned people will still be beating down the doors.



I think anything he says will be interpreted through a listeners political filter, one way or the other. I, personally, don't see a strictly racial component to his statement, rather a reference to what might motivate a person to emigrate from a given country and what we might require from an immigrant. I think he wants an immigration policy more like, say, Canada's or Australia's or Mexico's or maybe even Norway's. As I've said in another thread, I have no problem accepting political or oppressed refugees as long as we treat the refugee-producing country accordingly, ...like we did with Cuba until they finally wore us down and won. BTW, IMO, they are still a shithole.

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Cuba a shithole? Well, it does have an average life expectancy about 4 months less than America's. In Canada we get about 24 months more than either of you. Define shithole.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

Cuba a shithole? Well, it does have an average life expectancy about 4 months less than America's. In Canada we get about 24 months more than either of you. Define shithole.



A shithole is a place where people strap pieces of foam, seat cushions from old Desotos, plywood, and tree limbs together with bailing wire and hemp rope to risk death and escape with their families to that other shithole 90 miles to the north. These are folks who have had other family members murdered by their country's heros (who have their images painted on the sides of buildings and are worshipped by American leftists and anarchists), or have been sent to rot in their shithole prisons.

A shithole is where a natural disaster completely and utterly decimates a country that cannot be restored because their criminal regime has stolen that country's wealth and left their people with nothing to rebuild. No infrastructure, no housing, no resources.

A shithole is a place that sits over one of the richest oil reserves in the world yet doesn't have a meaningful economy and most of its population lives in fear and poverty. Another kleptocracy.

A shithole is a country with a loudmouth puppet "leader" who has given over defacto control of that country to criminal cartels (including members of their federal police) who, themselves, are at war with each other, leaving the citizenry caught in the middle. It's a place where this is better than their homeland.

A shithole is a country that (despite a 100% vaccination rate), causes its citizens to feel compelled to ship their children, unaccompanied, 1000 miles on top of freight trains, across hostile territory to "dreamland".

Plenty of others.

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muff528

***Cuba a shithole? Well, it does have an average life expectancy about 4 months less than America's. In Canada we get about 24 months more than either of you. Define shithole.



A shithole is a place where people strap pieces of foam, seat cushions from old Desotos, plywood, and tree limbs together with bailing wire and hemp rope to risk death and escape with their families to that other shithole 90 miles to the north. These are folks who have had other family members murdered by their country's heros (who have their images painted on the sides of buildings and are worshipped by American leftists and anarchists), or have been sent to rot in their shithole prisons.

A shithole is where a natural disaster completely and utterly decimates a country that cannot be restored because their criminal regime has stolen that country's wealth and left their people with nothing to rebuild. No infrastructure, no housing, no resources.

A shithole is a place that sits over one of the richest oil reserves in the world yet doesn't have a meaningful economy and most of its population lives in fear and poverty. Another kleptocracy.

A shithole is a country with a loudmouth puppet "leader" who has given over defacto control of that country to criminal cartels (including members of their federal police) who, themselves, are at war with each other, leaving the citizenry caught in the middle. It's a place where this is better than their homeland.

A shithole is a country that (despite a 100% vaccination rate), causes its citizens to feel compelled to ship their children, unaccompanied, 1000 miles on top of freight trains, across hostile territory to "dreamland".

Plenty of others.


Those are all pretty good points. America is not a place people are desperate to get out of and a lot of other countries are. But the whole point of the issue is that Trump and friends do not think that any, or very few of these desperate people should be allowed in. Why?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Amazing that we've always been that accepting country prior to the Dumpster in Chief.
We need to send the statue of liberty back to France.

At least it's good for China and Russia though, they will surely surpass us as a world power now.

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gowlerk

.....But the whole point of the issue is that Trump and friends do not think that any, or very few of these desperate people should be allowed in. Why?



I think he wants (as do I) a so-called "merit-based" immigration system. I don't think he is so much against some folks immigrating here as much as he is in favor of any immigrant candidates meeting the needs of the country. ... like just about any other country's approach to immigration. I agree that the way he put it gave his opponents an easy attack point, but I don't believe he meant it in a racial or "hateful" way. It's just that those happen to be the nations from which we are receiving the greatest influx of unskilled people. Again, I have no problem processing incoming refugees whom we might subject to other rules than immigrants. There has to be an ordered way to assimilate incoming folks that does not completely disrupt our resources or our ability to absorb them. Not just for the good of the country, but also for the good of the refugees. Also, I think that if a country, shithole or not, is causing a large refugee migration into this country, our relationship with that nation should reflect that. That was not quite the thought I wanted to get across, but ....bedtime.

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You seem to be willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt about if he is racist or not. I don't really understand where there is any doubt. He has a very long history of racism going back many years to his youth. He courted and supported white nationalists during his run for office. The man leaves little room for error in interpreting his actions and words.

I hope you had a good sleep. I'll be turning in soon as well.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

******Cuba a shithole? Well, it does have an average life expectancy about 4 months less than America's. In Canada we get about 24 months more than either of you. Define shithole.



A shithole is a place where people strap pieces of foam, seat cushions from old Desotos, plywood, and tree limbs together with bailing wire and hemp rope to risk death and escape with their families to that other shithole 90 miles to the north. These are folks who have had other family members murdered by their country's heros (who have their images painted on the sides of buildings and are worshipped by American leftists and anarchists), or have been sent to rot in their shithole prisons.

A shithole is where a natural disaster completely and utterly decimates a country that cannot be restored because their criminal regime has stolen that country's wealth and left their people with nothing to rebuild. No infrastructure, no housing, no resources.

A shithole is a place that sits over one of the richest oil reserves in the world yet doesn't have a meaningful economy and most of its population lives in fear and poverty. Another kleptocracy.

A shithole is a country with a loudmouth puppet "leader" who has given over defacto control of that country to criminal cartels (including members of their federal police) who, themselves, are at war with each other, leaving the citizenry caught in the middle. It's a place where this is better than their homeland.

A shithole is a country that (despite a 100% vaccination rate), causes its citizens to feel compelled to ship their children, unaccompanied, 1000 miles on top of freight trains, across hostile territory to "dreamland".

Plenty of others.


Those are all pretty good points. America is not a place people are desperate to get out of and a lot of other countries are. But the whole point of the issue is that Trump and friends do not think that any, or very few of these desperate people should be allowed in. Why?

Because we want them to be legal immigrants, accepting personal responsibility, our language and culture and obeying our laws. Stop trying to sneak in here for the freebies promised by progressive liberals in exchange for your illegal votes.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Ron, your innate capacity for hate is showing again. This is a discussion about the dotard’s desire to stop legal immigration from non white shitholes.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Trump has a long history of seeing more potential or merit in people he can identify with (white, European ancestry) than people he can't identify with (non-white). Not that he's incapable of seeing the merit, just that his assumptions are different when judging, and there's far less benefit of doubt.
That's not the racism of lynching or "step off the sidewalk when you see me, boy," but it's still racism.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Yes, maybe you're right Wendy. Many people don't see racism for what it is. White nationalist don't consider themselves to be racist at all. They just want a separate "homeland" with no brown people (except maybe servants with no citizenship). But don't call them racists, that's insulting.

The truth is, we all have a preference for people who are more like ourselves. We are all racist. It's what we do with that and how we treat others that matters.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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muff528

***Cuba a shithole? Well, it does have an average life expectancy about 4 months less than America's. In Canada we get about 24 months more than either of you. Define shithole.




A shithole is where a natural disaster completely and utterly decimates a country that cannot be restored because their criminal regime has stolen that country's wealth and left their people with nothing to rebuild. No infrastructure, no housing, no resources.

Plenty of others.

Trump Administration: Puerto Rico Has Enough Money and Doesn't Need More Aid

Hurricane Maria ravaged Puerto Rico four months ago, and recovery has been slow. Power is still out in large swaths of the island, affecting over a million people, and some rural areas may not have power restored until the 2018 hurricane season. Infrastructure, industry, and agriculture have all been devastated. But according to the Trump administration, Puerto Rico is fine. Or at least, Puerto Rico is well off that the administration is deliberately withholding aid...

And of course, Puerto Rico has no friends in this White House. It's reported that Trump meant for his "shithole" comments to play well for his base, and if the president thinks that way behind closed doors, it's always possible that he believes that actually helping Puerto Rico would undercut his credibility with white nationalists. It's also just possible he still doesn't know that Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. Regardless, it seems clear that the U.S. government has no intention of giving Puerto Rico aid if they can't get it all back or make a quick buck.
https://www.gq.com/story/trump-puerto-rico-aid

Puerto Rico’s $123 Billion Bankruptcy Is the Cost of U.S. Colonialism
"Civil society groups contend that the plunder of the Puerto Rican people through predatory and even illegal bond deals that island politicians concocted together with top Wall Street firms will now be exposed.

Amazingly, the 23-page petition that the federal government’s own financial control board filed in U.S. District Court in San Juan reached the exact same conclusion that Puerto Rico’s former Gov. Alejandro García Padilla reached back in June 2015 — that the island’s debt is “not payable.”
https://theintercept.com/2017/05/09/puerto-ricos-123-billion-bankruptcy-is-the-cost-of-u-s-colonialism/

You have defined the US government and the state of America as a shit***e.

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