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billvon

Trump's job-killing tariff

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Here in Wales, there are discussions ongoing to try and enact legislation that would require all new-build housing estates to have south facing roofs, Solar Panels (PV and hot water) and ground source heat pumps plus storage and/or feed into the national grid.
Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

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>Here in Wales, there are discussions ongoing to try and enact legislation that would
>require all new-build housing estates to have south facing roofs, Solar Panels (PV and hot
>water) and ground source heat pumps plus storage and/or feed into the national grid.

I'm not really a fan of that method of doing things, because it results in odd market distortions - look at all the now-useless solar thermal systems installed in the US in the 1970's due to great tax credits for them. I'm more in favor of real time pricing of power, which is a very strong incentive to install solar - AND is an accurate reflection of the market.

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billeisele


i'm not anti-solar but don't like paying a tax so a solar user can have panels

the other issue is the solar user isn't paying their share of the grid costs, if they want to be independent that's fine, disconnect from the grid, but solar without storage only provides power 23% of the time under the best circumstances, so these folks want to stay connected to the grid but don't want to pay their fair share of the costs of the grid, that's not fair



There are direct and indirect benefits to you from these solar installers. Their added capacity during day time when we still see peak usage translates to not having to build new power plants, which have a tremendous capital expense paid for by all rate payers. It also allows for the shuttering (or reduced running) of peaker plants which tend to pollute the most.

In California, these benefits make it well worth it to subsidize installations.

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billvon

Likely only the first jobs killed by Trump's tariff.

=============================
SunPower puts U.S. expansion on hold over Trump tariff
Nichola Groom
Reuters Jan 26 2018

(Reuters) - SunPower Corp (SPWR.O) on Thursday said it was putting a $20 million U.S. factory expansion and hundreds of new jobs on hold until and unless its solar panels receive an exclusion from federal tariffs the Trump administration imposed this week.
=================================




Just wondering Bill, if you're going to retract your assertion that you made in this thread about Trump killing jobs. I mean given the news of the China solar company that's going to come to the United States and build a plant because of those tariffs you got to wonder did he really kill jobs
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I can never understand why some Americans support foreign owned corporations with manufacturing plants in the US, simply because they provide slave labor here.
The profits shipped back to a Communist nation doesn't make sense for our economy to me.
Much like Trump bragging about the success of American companies, and using Chrysler as an example.
:D:D:D:S

I would much prefer the larger impact to our economy provided by American owned corporations.

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normiss

I can never understand why some Americans support foreign owned corporations with manufacturing plants in the US, simply because they provide slave labor here.
The profits shipped back to a Communist nation doesn't make sense for our economy to me.
Much like Trump bragging about the success of American companies, and using Chrysler as an example.
:D:D:D:S

I would much prefer the larger impact to our economy provided by American owned corporations.



This post was about lost jobs. Doesn't seem like there's going to be any lost now does there. By the way, you really think they're going to pay Chinese wages in the United States? If you do think that I've got ocean front property in Arizona to sell you
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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normiss

I see your reading comprehension has remained level.
Standard Russian troll bot levels I suppose.




That's the craziest fail I've ever seen anybody post here in a long time!

Thanks! I needed that this morning.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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normiss

I can never understand why some Americans support foreign owned corporations with manufacturing plants in the US, simply because they provide slave labor here.
The profits shipped back to a Communist nation doesn't make sense for our economy to me.
Much like Trump bragging about the success of American companies, and using Chrysler as an example.
:D:D:D:S

I would much prefer the larger impact to our economy provided by American owned corporations.



Too late...BTW, what car do you own?

http://automotivedigest.com/2005/08/foreign-auto-manufacturers-with-u-s-assembly-plants/
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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Ford F250 Superduty diesel! FYI, that's in Kentucky.
Which could be a concern for other reasons actually.
I thank the US Marshall Plan for the engine too.

My wife has a Jeep, when Chrysler was an American company.
Her Jeep was assembled here. Some friends of ours bought one of the new Jeeps as a Toad (behind their class A motorcoach) and I had to look up the manufacturer location for assembly....Turkey....meaning it's a Tofas I think.

Yes, I understand the local economic and tax benefits of foreign corporations here in the US....which is why I mentioned profits.
They clearly contribute. However comma. More commas with Chinese corporations IMO.

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airdvr


That chart is outdated.
Mitsubishi Normal IL was shutdown in 2015
NUMMI Fremont CA was shutdown 2010; Tesla bought it and produces Tesla's there.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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> I mean given the news of the China solar company that's going to come to
>the United States and build a plant because of those tariffs you got to wonder
>did he really kill jobs . . . .

Yes, he did. The Jinko plant might end up creating 800 jobs. The expected job loss due to the tariff is 23,000.

Now I know you dislike math as much as you dislike facts, but ask a nerdy friend of yours whether 800 is greater than 23,000.

========================================
U.S. solar sector says Trump tariffs will kill American jobs
Nichola Groom


LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - President Donald Trump’s move to slap steep tariffs on imported panels will kill tens of thousands of jobs, raise the cost of going solar and quash billions of dollars of investment, the U.S. Solar Energy Industries Association warned on Tuesday.

The criticism from the industry’s top trade association raises questions about whether Trump’s tariff, billed by the administration as a move to protect U.S. manufacturing jobs, will backfire by forcing layoffs in what had been one of the energy industry’s fastest growing sectors.

“We are not happy with this decision,” SEIA President Abigail Ross Hopper said on a conference call with reporters. “It’s just basic economics -- if you raise the price of a product it’s going to decrease demand for that product.”

“It means billions of dollars of lost investment, 1.2 million homes that won’t be powered by solar,” Hopper said.

SEIA also expects the decision to cause the loss of 23,000 jobs this year, with more losses in subsequent years. The U.S. solar industry employs more than 260,000 workers - about five-times more than the coal industry.
============================

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airdvr

11 of 13 is a passing mark...even in one of John's classes.



It could also have gone the other way:
Since 2005, (when that was compiled), there may have been additional foreign plants built in the US.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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normiss

Being announced now:

Japan's Fujifilm to take over Xerox in $6.1 billion deal, create joint venture.

Anyone care to guess the number of layoffs coming next?



Two looser companies:
https://finance.yahoo.com/chart/XRX#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%3D

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/FUJIY?p=FUJIY

Former Fuji Xerox New Zealand bosses sued after accounting scandal
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97049836/former-fuji-xerox-new-zealand-bosses-sued-after-accounting-scandal

Neither one of which has done better than a 2% ROI for investors over the last 20 years.

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airdvr

***I can never understand why some Americans support foreign owned corporations with manufacturing plants in the US, simply because they provide slave labor here.
The profits shipped back to a Communist nation doesn't make sense for our economy to me.
Much like Trump bragging about the success of American companies, and using Chrysler as an example.
:D:D:D:S

I would much prefer the larger impact to our economy provided by American owned corporations.



Too late...BTW, what car do you own?

http://automotivedigest.com/2005/08/foreign-auto-manufacturers-with-u-s-assembly-plants/

2004 2500 hd Duramax

Has an Isuzu motor
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I'm not really a fan of that method of doing things, because it results in odd market distortions - look at all the now-useless solar thermal systems installed in the US in the 1970's due to great tax credits for them. I'm more in favor of real time pricing of power, which is a very strong incentive to install solar - AND is an accurate reflection of the market.

Bill - here is SC the regulated utility was forced to provide solar subsidies, all customers pay a surcharge on their bill, the funds cover the solar customers

the Co-Ops changed their rates to demand time of use, a form of RTP

the result has been that there is a surge of solar in the regulated utility area and almost none in the Co-Op area

when the market price signal method is used solar isn't working, at least not here at our current electric rates
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

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>Black Lung Study: Biggest Cluster Ever Of Fatal Coal Miners' Disease

And Trump is proposing to weaken regulations that protect miners against black lung disease.

Well, as they die off, i guess that translates to more JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! for survivors.

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billvon

>Black Lung Study: Biggest Cluster Ever Of Fatal Coal Miners' Disease

And Trump is proposing to weaken regulations that protect miners against black lung disease.

Well, as they die off, i guess that translates to more JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! for survivors.



On occasion you are WRONG!

With Trump's HHS pick Big Pharma takes over our health system
http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/360313-trumps-hhs-pick-shows-that-big-pharma-is-taking-over-our-health-system

OK, well maybe you're partially right:

"Black lung disease is increasing among miners. Even relatively young miners who've spent their whole careers in mines that were supposed to be under federal dust control standards have been found with advanced disease. At the same time, however, compensation for miners who get black lung disease has been shrinking.

For a miner to convince the federal black lung program that the mining company where he worked owes him compensation for the damage done to his lungs is not an easy task. The miner had better be prepared for mountains of paperwork, and hearings and appeals that can go on for about seven years. Dr. Donald Rasmussen, who does medical examinations of miners for the Department of Labor, says it's not a rare occurrence for there to be 10 to 12 years of appeals, with the mining company usually opposing the claims.

"It takes a long time to succeed," Rasmussen says, "and a miner is not assured of winning anyway."
https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126303910

Oil, gas and coal interests filling Donald Trump’s ‘swamp’ with cash
Fossil fuel giants spent millions on lobbying, inauguration during early 2017
https://www.publicintegrity.org/2017/05/02/20848/oil-gas-and-coal-interests-filling-donald-trump-s-swamp-cash

Is it wrong to think these miners, who likely voted for trump, are only getting exactly what they deserve?

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billvon

>Black Lung Study: Biggest Cluster Ever Of Fatal Coal Miners' Disease

And Trump is proposing to weaken regulations that protect miners against black lung disease.

Well, as they die off, i guess that translates to more JOBS! JOBS! JOBS! for survivors.



More profits for the owners. No pensions or health care for the retirees if they are dead.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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