I'm going to fire someone because they can't get daycare for their child

[DJL 232]

I don't have kids and doubt I ever will and don't know first hand what it's like to have to deal with a child between separated parents who don't make much money. We have an employee who can't get to work, is having to leave work at random times because he's going through a separation and doesn't have the money for child care. Where I was previously I had a co-worker who was going through the same thing. I was his supervisor and it was a mid-sized brewery so it wasn't a big deal for us, just part of dealing with life. Where I am now, a commercial contractor, that shit just doesn't fly. We're bringing him in to have a talk but this is his last shot, be at work and do your work, make money so the kid is taken care of.

I would love to hear recommendations from people because it's not like this is the first time someone has had a kid and can't afford daycare. Our company is too small to provide anything and we need him to do a better job at work before we pay him more. It's a bitch getting electricians these days so we'd rather keep him. Also, anyone know any electricians in the Mid-Atlantic area. I'm turning down work right now.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

As a small business owner I completely understand where you're coming from.

As a relatively new dad I'll say that until you've been through it you can't believe how expensive and un-scheduleable (is that a word?) kids are. For reference, I'm paying more for daycare than I am for my mortgage on a detached home in San Diego.

I'd ask him to look into options for day care and bring the costs to you. It doesn't have to be a formal day-care center. There are at-home day cares where it's just a girl looking after a couple of kids. Sure, it's not as good as a structured learning environment, but it's better than being out of work.
When you have the talk with him, look through the numbers and offer him a deal. Split the cost with him so that he gets a temporary pay rise that will pay for half of it with the understanding that if he does great work and his attendance improves there will be more pay coming at the end of the year to off set the cost even further. If he still can't organize his life then he needs to make some tough decisions.

If you have the 'payrise' as a separate line item as 'childcare benefit' this is even a tax write-off for you.
http://work.chron.com/can-business-write-off-childcare-employees-16377.html

[DJL 232]

Thanks, we're going to look into that. Seems like something you can do anyway if we're giving a raise and capitalize on the write-off.

I really don't know how people can afford daycare, seems like it's through the roof. I have some friends who were paying more in daycare than one of their salaries.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PhreeZone 15]

We have two kids and are doing an in home daycare that is at a fraction of the "Daycare Centers" that advertise and seem to have dedicated buildings for that thing. We only need care for the school year and don't pay anything for the summer since they are with us during that time and we still payed out almost $13k in child care last year. Had we went to one of the center places our bill was looking to be 25-30k between the kids at least since they make you pay year round to hold spots. I pay as much in child care as my first mortgage was.

Depending on what he is making he can qualify for Title XX payments at some of the centers which will split/reduce his amount owed out of pocket but that's assuming that he can even find a center that has openings that takes Title XX. Most of those centers have waiting lists since its the only way that people can send their kids for care and work if they make less than a certain amount a year.

Simple math is the cost is about $40 per day per child for an in home care and about $60 per day for a center. Add $10-15 per day if the child is under 18 months since they have to have a certain ratio of kids:adults and that ratio is much lower for infants.

The racket I am currently dealing with is half day kindergarten - its a serious pain to have to arrange transportation for a pick up at noon everyday to get the kid to a day care center for the other half of the day. I am paying more for that then I was for them to go to day care all day and then I still have to pay for day care on top of that.

I've seen multiple employers offer onsite daycare or day care benefits and that is a massive help as a parent and would serve to attract me if I was in that situation. If you have the ability to help offer that as a benefit you might find that will solve this employees issues since its just such a drain to work all day to find out that day care took 30% of your pay off the top and with out stable care its always a concern about I need to take them to X place today but X is out tomorrow so I have to find somewhere else and its just a snowball of issues at that point.

Not justifying it but I can see why if a single mother is in a situation where they could go work all day for $9 an hour (360 a week) and end up having to pay $200 a week for child care its just not worth it for them since their take home ends up being $50 or less a week at that point. Title XX should cover that but its not always an option since not every center takes it and those that do are on long waits sometimes.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[JoeWeber 2,299]

DJL

I don't have kids and doubt I ever will and don't know first hand what it's like to have to deal with a child between separated parents who don't make much money. We have an employee who can't get to work, is having to leave work at random times because he's going through a separation and doesn't have the money for child care. Where I was previously I had a co-worker who was going through the same thing. I was his supervisor and it was a mid-sized brewery so it wasn't a big deal for us, just part of dealing with life. Where I am now, a commercial contractor, that shit just doesn't fly. We're bringing him in to have a talk but this is his last shot, be at work and do your work, make money so the kid is taken care of.

I would love to hear recommendations from people because it's not like this is the first time someone has had a kid and can't afford daycare. Our company is too small to provide anything and we need him to do a better job at work before we pay him more. It's a bitch getting electricians these days so we'd rather keep him. Also, anyone know any electricians in the Mid-Atlantic area. I'm turning down work right now.

Poor bastard. Fired on Dropzone.com. And here I thought Tillerson got it the hard way.

[DJL 232]

JoeWeber

***I don't have kids and doubt I ever will and don't know first hand what it's like to have to deal with a child between separated parents who don't make much money. We have an employee who can't get to work, is having to leave work at random times because he's going through a separation and doesn't have the money for child care. Where I was previously I had a co-worker who was going through the same thing. I was his supervisor and it was a mid-sized brewery so it wasn't a big deal for us, just part of dealing with life. Where I am now, a commercial contractor, that shit just doesn't fly. We're bringing him in to have a talk but this is his last shot, be at work and do your work, make money so the kid is taken care of.

I would love to hear recommendations from people because it's not like this is the first time someone has had a kid and can't afford daycare. Our company is too small to provide anything and we need him to do a better job at work before we pay him more. It's a bitch getting electricians these days so we'd rather keep him. Also, anyone know any electricians in the Mid-Atlantic area. I'm turning down work right now.

Poor bastard. Fired on Dropzone.com. And here I thought Tillerson got it the hard way.

I'm pretty sure I took his friend on a tandem but I doubt he'll see this post.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Rick 67]

One of my guys had to quit when his wife gave birth to twin boys. She makes more money than him and day care for 2 infants is crazy expensive.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[TriGirl 268]

Rick

One of my guys had to quit when his wife gave birth to twin boys. She makes more money than him and day care for 2 infants is crazy expensive.

This. Procreation is (usually) a choice. Though I know DJL's employee is now separated -- in that case: child support. These life choices are just that: CHOICES. If you choose to create children, you should know with whom you are creating them. Know how much time/money/attention this will require, and for what duration.

Of course, I know "things happen." External family emergencies, natural disasters, death/illness of one of the parents, etc. But those variables that are choices should be "owned" by those who make those choices.

[/rant]

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[SkyDekker 1,122]

TriGirl

***One of my guys had to quit when his wife gave birth to twin boys. She makes more money than him and day care for 2 infants is crazy expensive.

This. Procreation is (usually) a choice. Though I know DJL's employee is now separated -- in that case: child support. These life choices are just that: CHOICES. If you choose to create children, you should know with whom you are creating them. Know how much time/money/attention this will require, and for what duration.

Of course, I know "things happen." External family emergencies, natural disasters, death/illness of one of the parents, etc. But those variables that are choices should be "owned" by those who make those choices.

[/rant]


Taking responsibility for and needing help with are not mutually exclusive.

[PhreeZone 15]

Twins were a fear when we were having kids since it is about $40k per year until they get to about 18 months old and then the cost drops to about $30k a year until school since you are paying double for everything via full time care. I know of several mothers that dropped out of the workforce completely when they had twins since it was going to cost them as much if not more than they would make in childcare expenses. I feel bad since that's a big hit if you were planning on one child (can cover the expenses and everything) but got twins and now its a pretty big bill to cover that's unexpected.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[NewGuy2005 51]

PhreeZone

... I know of several mothers that dropped out of the workforce completely when they had twins ....

That's what happened to us. Since it was twins, the day care choice was made for us. Coincidentally, the last of our two is leaving home tomorrow morning.

To the OP: As mentioned earlier, until you've got them, you can't imagine the amount of work and unpredictability that is involved. You have to do what you have to do, but show mercy when you can.

[RonD1120 58]

It has been a long while since I was working with distressed families. However, Women's and Infant Care (WIC) used to offer help in these situations.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[tkhayes 126]

WIC's funding is stagnant at best, and declining in some areas, and certainly not keeping up with inflation

[PhreeZone 15]

SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) the real name for WIC only offers food and nutrition - nothing to do with Day Care. WIC has been getting its funding cut and its looking at a massive gutting with the proposed overhauls of federal programs that Congress is proposing right now. The concept is the same as what they are doing with food stamps - you get a basket of food every week or two and that's it. It does nothing to help provide child care stability for a working parent.

Lots of single parents have to rely on grandparents and other family to watch their child since the cost of care is so much - if those resources are not the most stable (grandparent needs to go to treatments every few days, friend gets sick, shifting hourly schedules, etc) it causes a trickle down effect of the parent always scrambling to take care of the child, usually at the expense of the employment.

Lots of non Parents and older generations do not understand the current costs since inflation has his childcare at a rate faster than the rest of the economy. My parents used to be able to get a babysitter for me and my brother for an evening for $5 and a $8 pizza, cost now days is $20 per child and the Pizza is another $20 at least.

https://www.cnpp.usda.gov/tools/CRC_Calculator/default.aspx
Here is the breakdown from the USDA on the cost to raise a single child as a single parent:

Overall Annual Estimated Costs
(Household Type = One Parent and Income = Less Than $59,200)

Housing Food Transportation Clothing Health Care Child Care and Education Other Total
Your Costs: $4,234 $2,029 $895 $504 $769 $2,444 $580 $11,453
National Costs: $4,234 $2,029 $895 $504 $769 $2,444 $580 $11,453


Middle class Married couples with two children are looking at a good chunk per year also:

Overall Annual Estimated Costs
(Household Type = Two Parents, Income = $59,200 to $107,400, and Region = Midwest)

Housing Food Transportation Clothing Health Care Child Care and Education Other Total
Your Costs: $7,000 $3,090 $3,470 $1,630 $2,250 $5,460 $1,890 $24,790
National Costs: $7,360 $3,270 $3,630 $1,350 $2,290 $5,740 $1,770 $25,410


Current estimate is for a married couple to raise two children to age 17 will be at a cost of $238k (not including college costs). Single parent with one child is about $145k.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[yoink 321]

Yup, it's crazy.

Our daycare is about $26,000 a year for a single child.

That's before every single other cost. Baby formula is more expensive than crack, I'm sure.

[billvon 2,400]

>Baby formula is more expensive than crack, I'm sure.

Our first child had an issue with allergies so we had to get him a specific formula. It was about $50 a can and I spent a lot of time driving all over San Diego looking for the specific type we needed. I actually got more from Ebay than I did from any suppliers; no one carried it.

[fanya 3]

I don't know why I'm spending all this time and effort going to school to be an accountant when it sounds like I can make a killing in the daycare industry

[yoink 321]

fanya

I don't know why I'm spending all this time and effort going to school to be an accountant when it sounds like I can make a killing in the daycare industry

Put 'Baby' before any product then jack the price up 400%. Seriously.

[Bolas 5]

yoink

***I don't know why I'm spending all this time and effort going to school to be an accountant when it sounds like I can make a killing in the daycare industry

Put 'Baby' before any product then jack the price up 400%. Seriously.

Same can be said for ‘Wedding’. Just got married 2 years ago and have both kids getting married this year.

Maybe you should start a baby wedding business.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[PhreeZone 15]

I've looked at starting a day care center since its pretty much a gold mine if you can get a program going and get some staff that sticks around. Staffing tends to be the issue since you tend to attract people looking for the free child care and as soon as their kids no longer need it they quit and go somewhere else.

My sitter clears 50-60k a year on the kids she watches at her house. Thats more than my wife makes with a masters degree as a teacher. I know that corporate centers pay their managers in the 45-60k range as starting pay with no degrees needed, assistant managers make 30k ish. And they all get free childcare on top of it!


Here are the ratio's for Ohio:
Child care centers must comply with the following caregiver-to-child ratios and group sizes: for infants from birth to 12 months, 1:5 or 1:6, with no more than 12 infants per group; 12–18 months, 1:6, not to exceed 12 children; 18–30 months, 1:7, with no more than 14 in a group; 30–35 months, 1:8, with up to 14 children; 3-year-olds, 1:12, not to exceed 24 preschoolers in a class; 4–5 years, 1:14, with no more than 28 children per class. For mixed-age groupings, the ratio appropriate for the youngest children applies unless there is only one child over the age of 30 months in a group of older kids.

The general goal is to clear at least $2500-3000 per classroom per week and most mid size centers have 5-6 classes. $12k per week or $625k a year per center. As kids grow up they increase the number per room so their price drops a tad but more of them are there to make up the margins. The cost of running the business comes out of it but its generally assumed that a midsize full time center will gross $650K a year at a min with larger centers clearing 1mil plus easy. One of the local centers here charges $250 per week and they have 24 kids in a classroom so that room is making $6000 a week and the two teachers are making about $15 an hour is my guess for 40 hours a week. That one room is making about 4800 profit a week and the building has 8 rooms of various ages but they have a waiting list to get in. Simple guess - they make 1.2-1.5M a year and have a staff count of 20ish that they have to pay out for at about 30k a year per person minus management.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[DJL 232]

fanya

I don't know why I'm spending all this time and effort going to school to be an accountant when it sounds like I can make a killing in the daycare industry

From what I gather many daycares are franchised and pay their employees crap, an average of $11.50 an hour meaning you probably can't afford to send your own child to daycare.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Rick 67]

He was making 40k per year. That's why it was a surprise to us that it is cheaper for him to stay home and care for the boys himself. I never could have imagined it would cost that much. But I guess when you look at the responsibility the care center is taking on it kinda makes sense.

Sure was a lot easier 31 years ago when we had our son. We made a plan that my wife would quit work until he started school. Even then she went to work on the weekends so she could pick him up and drop him off at school during the week. Then and I had him on the weekends.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[BIGUN 1,053]

To me; the issue is not about childcare - its about doing his job. The organization can't wrap itself around everyone's personal problems. If another employee were late or leaving all the time for other reasons - would you terminate their employment? Verbal, written, gone, right?

Having said that; I once gave an employee a month of paid leave to get "passed" their issues and get them resolved in that month. It didn't happen and they were terminated anyway. I was chastised for my actions, but I knew I had done the right thing - they did not.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Bob_Church 7]

Rick

He was making 40k per year. That's why it was a surprise to us that it is cheaper for him to stay home and care for the boys himself. I never could have imagined it would cost that much. But I guess when you look at the responsibility the care center is taking on it kinda makes sense.

Sure was a lot easier 31 years ago when we had our son. We made a plan that my wife would quit work until he started school. Even then she went to work on the weekends so she could pick him up and drop him off at school during the week. Then and I had him on the weekends.

In Athens Oh and the surrounding area the Athens School District if known for being very good and the surrounding ones for being very bad. Athens is a University town in the middle of Appalachia and this is one of the ways it shows. A lot of people move here wanting to live outside the city but put their kids in Athens schools. Along with paying extra they have to provide all transportation. And a lot of time both parents work. They probably wouldn't be able to afford the extra cost otherwise. I don't see how they do it.

[yoink 321]

BIGUN

To me; the issue is not about childcare - its about doing his job. The organization can't wrap itself around everyone's personal problems.

Good ones can and do.

There's a difference between a bad attitude and a bad circumstance and a decent HR department works to distinguish the two.

If you don't care about retaining the good workers then you treat them both the same. If you want to keep the best people it's a good idea not to make exceptions but rather to have policy that can help in situations like this.

If he can't do his job ONCE the child care thing is sorted then by all means, fire away.