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kallend

Solution to the death penalty problem

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SkyDekker

***Hi jcd,

Quote

Why do the states struggle with this?



Ever think about all the folks that did long sentences for a simple drug crime that today is no longer a crime?

We live, we evolve.

Jerry Baumchen
The
PS) Other than alcohol, I have never used illegal drugs.



Simple drug crime? Try life without parole for 50 years for shoplifting.

https://www.americanbar.org/publications/human_rights_magazine_home/human_rights_vol31_2004/winter2004/irr_hr_winter04_shoplifting.html


Life without parole as an alternative to the death penalty is great, but the courts will probably screw it up by using it for other things.
I don't know if there's anything in lwop that stipulates that. Are the examples shown actually a result of three strikes laws? Can one be eliminated without affecting the other? Here's hoping.

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Replying to the thread as a whole. I wanted to add to the conversation bc this is something I have really changed my thoughts on. I think this is best done by sharing a great article written on a conservative site:

https://www.redstate.com/sarahquinlan/2018/03/20/republicans-seek-end-death-penalty-not-expand/

Some strong quotes from the article: "Capital punishment is therefore yet another government program that is both expensive and ineffective — while also pertaining to literal life or death situations."

"If we are to err, shouldn’t it be on the side of life?" -Ronald Reagan

-R
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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SkyDekker

Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

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nolhtairt

***Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

I would propose that you don't jail people for 50 years for petty crimes even if it is a third petty crime.

Pedophiles get lighter sentences, much lighter sentences.

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SkyDekker

******Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

I would propose that you don't jail people for 50 years for petty crimes even if it is a third petty crime.

Pedophiles get lighter sentences, much lighter sentences.

These zero tolerance things never work. There's a reason judges used to have discretion in sentencing. When I was a kid my uncle Dillard lived under the cloud of "the bitch". No, not his wife, but in West Virginia they had Habitual status where you could be sentenced to life on your third conviction. The keyword being could.

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Well, what would you propose?



No three strikes laws. No politically motivated, ludicrously long mandatory sentences for small time drug offences and other 'hot-topic' crimes that aren't warranted by the actual danger posed to society by the criminal.

Honestly, this is just obvious common sense stuff. It's not rocket surgery.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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SkyDekker

******Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

I would propose that you don't jail people for 50 years for petty crimes even if it is a third petty crime.

Pedophiles get lighter sentences, much lighter sentences.

Some of them even get the President of the USA to campaign for them.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Something that I think would really help in the US, but I can't imagine it happening, is a complete rethinking of prison sentences.
The first necessary thing would be to ignore public opinion. A couple of years ago a 19 year old kid was sitting next to his 9 year old cousin. He talked her into putting her hand into his pocket and touching his penis. She did it once then refused to do it again. She told her mom and he confessed.
He got ten years in prison and the result was a huge protest and attempt to impeach the judge for letting the kid off with a "slap on the wrist." You see that phrase a lot. An inmate punched a prison nurse in the arm, giving her a bruise. She complained of him getting a "slap on the wrist" of three years added to his sentence.
Scientists and prison experts need to sit down and take a serious look at what a year in prison is. Then do a realistic, unemotional evaluation of what would be an appropriate sentence for different crimes. How many years of incarceration would it take to help prevent this happening again. What's appropriate, and why pay for more?

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Recidivism is a major problem in North America. Too little effort is devoted to teaching skills that will keep them out of prison for a second offence.
Many prisons are "finishing schools" for criminal gangs. Once paroled, ex-convicts have plenty of contacts to resume their criminal activities.

A better solution would be to isolate first-offenders from repeat offenders and offer them a variety of trades and "life skills" classes.

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Too little effort to teaching skills, and to providing support. Lots of people want to punish, the problem is that then people with a history of bad decisions are left with no or few good options.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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riggerrob

Recidivism is a major problem in North America. Too little effort is devoted to teaching skills that will keep them out of prison for a second offence.
Many prisons are "finishing schools" for criminal gangs. Once paroled, ex-convicts have plenty of contacts to resume their criminal activities.

A better solution would be to isolate first-offenders from repeat offenders and offer them a variety of trades and "life skills" classes.



The problem is that the prisons are too crowded for anything but warehousing. In some prisons they've filled the gymnasiums with bunk beds, some as high as three beds.

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gowlerk

The prison industry does not worry about recidivism. They worry about repeat business and how to grow.



Its all about warehousing for the lowest bid.
How Arizona’s Sheriff Joe Arpaio lost his political invincibility
"His downfall proved partly tied to a criminal contempt-of-court charge for his acknowledged defiance of a judge’s order in a racial profiling case stemming from his immigration patrols. He also cost taxpayers $130 million to defend him in lawsuits over his tenure. "
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/arizonas-sheriff-joe-arpaio-lost-political-invincibility

Why Scandinavian Prisons Are Superior
"Several prisons in the U.S. each hold nearly twice the prison population of Finland."...

This is all possible because, throughout Scandinavia, criminal justice policy rarely enters political debate. Decisions about best practices are left to professionals in the field, who are often published criminologists and consult closely with academics. Sustaining the barrier between populist politics and results-based prison policy are media that don’t sensationalize crime—if they report it at all. "
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/09/why-scandinavian-prisons-are-superior/279949/

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Bob_Church

***The prison industry does not worry about recidivism. They worry about repeat business and how to grow.



But we're paying for it and need to have say in the matter.

Yes, but in general the average American simply cares about punishing prisoners and making sure that prison is as hard as possible. This mindset aligns nicely with keeping recidivism high and business booming.

Bloodlust and the need and desire for "revenge" overpower any desire for cost savings. Those should be attained by feeding cheaper and housing more. This allows to keep cost per prisoner low, but overall costs high do to the staggering amount of prisoners.

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SkyDekker

******The prison industry does not worry about recidivism. They worry about repeat business and how to grow.



But we're paying for it and need to have say in the matter.

Yes, but in general the average American simply cares about punishing prisoners and making sure that prison is as hard as possible. This mindset aligns nicely with keeping recidivism high and business booming.

Bloodlust and the need and desire for "revenge" overpower any desire for cost savings. Those should be attained by feeding cheaper and housing more. This allows to keep cost per prisoner low, but overall costs high do to the staggering amount of prisoners.

In West Virginia Aramark already has them on starvation rations. A common meal, they have this a lot, is meatloaf. Take a slice of white bread. Slice it in half. That half is the size of the portion for these grown men. To get enough to eat they take the money they earn or friends send to them and spend it on grossly overpriced food from the prison store. So the prison saves money by not feeding them enough then make money selling them food at huge markups.

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SkyDekker

******The prison industry does not worry about recidivism. They worry about repeat business and how to grow.



But we're paying for it and need to have say in the matter.

Yes, but in general the average American simply cares about punishing prisoners and making sure that prison is as hard as possible. This mindset aligns nicely with keeping recidivism high and business booming.

Bloodlust and the need and desire for "revenge" overpower any desire for cost savings. Those should be attained by feeding cheaper and housing more. This allows to keep cost per prisoner low, but overall costs high do to the staggering amount of prisoners.

We have to get the message across that the best way to cut prison costs is to cut down on the number of prisoners. We're paying for it so we should have some say in it. But most people either don't pay attention or go the "screw 'em" route so it not simple.

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Here was an interesting situation around prison for profit: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/etowah_sheriff_at_center_of_ja.html

Basically state law said that the sheriff could keep any excess funds from the inmate food budget to use as needed. This sheriff put all the inmates on minimum rations and then pocketed $750,000 over 3 years on top of his normal pay and went out and bought a beach house with it. The original intent was to use those funds for department needs post WW2 - in this case he kept the money as income and spent it on himself.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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PhreeZone

Here was an interesting situation around prison for profit: http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/03/etowah_sheriff_at_center_of_ja.html

Basically state law said that the sheriff could keep any excess funds from the inmate food budget to use as needed. This sheriff put all the inmates on minimum rations and then pocketed $750,000 over 3 years on top of his normal pay and went out and bought a beach house with it. The original intent was to use those funds for department needs post WW2 - in this case he kept the money as income and spent it on himself.



When you thing about the relatively low cost of food, then going to something like Aramark where now you also pay their employees and they make a profit means serious cuts in amount and quality served. For some real horror stories look up reports about Aramark. Here's a company that' so bad that the Florida prison system threw them out. But they've got lots of other customers, like the West Virginia DOC.
For that matter, why can't they go with something like the Angola system? They were feeding their inmates grade A steaks that they grew, it didn't cost them a thing. Then someone in the La government found out, now they have to ship the beef they produce out and use the money to buy lower quality stuff.But still, they're eating better than most, and not just most inmate, but most, and I believe they'e turning a profit. Inmates learn to work. It's farm work and might not translate skills wise to what they'd do after they get out but that's not the important thing. They learn to work, which many of them never did and didn't know how to start.

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SkyDekker

******Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

I would propose that you don't jail people for 50 years for petty crimes even if it is a third petty crime.

Pedophiles get lighter sentences, much lighter sentences.

It is my opinion that pedophiles should be sentenced to life in prison.

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nolhtairt

*********Yes.

Though the guy would have only gotten 1 year max if his prior crime was rape or murder. But because it was the extremely serious crime of petty theft, the sentence had to be much more severe.



Well, what would you propose? Somebody breaks the law, he goes to prison and serves his/her time, gets out... You'd hope they learned their lesson. Nope, back in they go, for a longer term... then get out... Still didn't learn your lesson? Fuck you, go back for even longer...

Sure, some of the 2nd and 3rd blown chance sentence lengths gets ridiculous sometimes depending on the crime, and no, our system isn't perfect. Laws are written to modify sentence lengths every now and then, but there's always going to be people who don't like it.

I would propose that you don't jail people for 50 years for petty crimes even if it is a third petty crime.

Pedophiles get lighter sentences, much lighter sentences.

It is my opinion that pedophiles should be sentenced to life in prison.

Roy Moore, however, ran for US Senator with Trump's endorsement.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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riggerrob

Gov't declaring a guy dead is a cruel punishment!
He could not legally work, rental an apartment, drive, drink alcohol, etc.
Being dead would confine him to the skid-row of Vancouver's Downtown East Side. He would live a hard-scrabble life wandering from soup kitchen to soup-kitchen, sleeping in doorways, no medical care, etc. It is little wonder that so many homeless people do drugs. I would not want to live that life sober!
The dead man would need to resort to petty crime to earn cash.
In many respects that existence is a crueler punishment than execution.


or working on Lodi's packing mat!!!

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kallend



Roy Moore, however, ran for US Senator with Trump's endorsement.



Well, Moore was not really a pedophile. More of a "teen-o-phile".

Still illegal. Still slimy as all hell. Still had Trump's endorsement.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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