Minimum Age To Buy Firearms?

[Hooknswoop 19]

I'm torn on this one. While an 18-year old can enlist and be sent into war. some 21 year olds shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. I guess the same I don't believe in the minimum of 6-hours of freefall to attend an an AFFI course, I don't think turning 18 or 21 makes you instantly responsible enough to own a firearm.

I am not comfortable with demonstrating competency before being granted a constitutional right. The easy comparison is having to pass some sort of test before having the freedom of speech. The responsibility isn't the same. Yes, one could cause risk to life with freedom of expression, but not the same as the 2nd amendment.

I would vote "yes" for a 21-year old minimum old restriction to buy or even own a firearm if there was an exception that anyone in the
was military was exempt.

Derek V

[yoink 321]

Hooknswoop

The easy comparison is having to pass some sort of test before having the freedom of speech.

I've long said that people should pass a test before being allowed to publish anything on the internet. I honestly believe that.
I've also said that people should pass a test of basic knowledge before being allowed to vote on a particular subject...

So there are two rights I'd curtail right off the bat. I suspect we could argue for a while over those as well!

While I'd agree with your suggestion, are there any stats that show guns used by people under 21 are one's THEY bought, rather than ones that are either owned by family members or given as a gift?

I'm not sure how much of an issue this would solve.


FWIW, I think 18 or 21 is a fine minimum, but when I look at myself I don't think I was responsible enough to have real guns in the house until very recently.
I think an age limit (while a good basic idea) is more of a feel-good change at this point.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I've long said that people should pass a test before being allowed to publish anything on the internet. I honestly believe that.
I've also said that people should pass a test of basic knowledge before being allowed to vote on a particular subject...

So there are two rights I'd curtail right off the bat. I suspect we could argue for a while over those as well! Wink

You know, maybe we wouldn't argue. I've always looked at it from the perspective that the freedom of speech has (almost) no limitations, therefore the 2nd amendment should not. But to flip that on its head, adding a test of some sort maybe isn't the worst idea ever. I have long been for allowing the freedom of speech, even of I disagree with it and even if it if creates obvious emotional harm.

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I'm not sure how much of an issue this would solve.

You are right, probably not much.

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FWIW, I think 18 or 21 is a fine minimum, but when I look at myself I don't think I was responsible enough to have real guns in the house until very recently.

Some people are, some aren't. Age doesn't equal ability or responsibility.

Derek V

[gowlerk 1,903]

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You know, maybe we wouldn't argue. I've always looked at it from the perspective that the freedom of speech has (almost) no limitations, therefore the 2nd amendment should not.

That's a funny thing from where I sit as an outsider. Your 1st amendment is a shining beacon to the world. An example of a great society. Your 2nd amendment is the perfect counter argument. An example of freedom rum amok.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[tonyhays 86]

Quote

I've long said that people should pass a test before being allowed to publish anything on the internet. I honestly believe that.

Sometimes I think people should pass a test before they can reproduce.

“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

[Phil1111 908]

tonyhays

Quote

I've long said that people should pass a test before being allowed to publish anything on the internet. I honestly believe that.

Sometimes I think people should pass a test before they can reproduce.

BINGO, unfortunately thats a non starter.

A major advantage of a higher age restriction of gun purchases. Is more time to identify dangerous propensities, ideologies of prospective purchasers.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

Hooknswoop

I'm torn on this one. While an 18-year old can enlist and be sent into war. some 21 year olds shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. I guess the same I don't believe in the minimum of 6-hours of freefall to attend an an AFFI course, I don't think turning 18 or 21 makes you instantly responsible enough to own a firearm.

I am not comfortable with demonstrating competency before being granted a constitutional right. The easy comparison is having to pass some sort of test before having the freedom of speech. The responsibility isn't the same. Yes, one could cause risk to life with freedom of expression, but not the same as the 2nd amendment.

I would vote "yes" for a 21-year old minimum old restriction to buy or even own a firearm if there was an exception that anyone in the
was military was exempt.

Derek V

Derek, for this reply I'd like to agree to disagree on what constitutes a constitutional right to own firearms. Also, I'd rather it was a minimum 21 years of age for both with no exceptions.

That said, I am with you on the age minimum for firearms as a stand alone issue. Beyond that, if we were cutting a deal I'd expect to move in your direction for the give.

Keith took a shot at the problem but his poll was too binary and offered little beyond an opportunity for others to offer concessions.

Just because I'm a damn bleeding heart liberal does not mean I'm giving up my guns. But I'd give up a lot to get the word "regulated" back into the second amendment, that's a fact.

[wmw999 2,116]

I’d be fine with that, especially if there were a provision for younger people to use them in gun ranges, and maybe even own ones that stay at the range. And, just as there’s a record that one has voted, a record that one has gone to the range and used a gun would also be available.

This could be the basis of the determination that someone has achieved the skill and maturity to exercise the second amendment rights. Because, rights though they may be, they have a huge potential for harm when abused. Large-scale voter fraud that moves elections is arguably worse, but one guy with a semi-automatic weapon can do a lot of harm on his own.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[RonD1120 58]

I vote for age 18. If you can marry, serve in the military and vote you should be able to own a firearm of your choice.

We cannot control every aspect of society. Bad things happen but good people prevail.

Let the existing laws punish the bad people.

Let good people do what is necessary to feel safe, have a sense of well being and protect themselves, their families and their communities.

If you need to live in completely protected community, do so. If you have the spirit and confidence to live in an open community you should have the right to do that as well.

Don't try to make all of the U.S.A. a protected community. It goes against our very spirit of freedom and liberty.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

If you need to live in completely protected community, do so. If you have the spirit and confidence to live in an open community you should have the right to do that as well.

Ummm, yeah.

Ron, didn't you move to the mountains because... oh never mind.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[phantomII 36]

Let me try to understand this.
The legal drinking age in the USA is 21, meaning, you have to be 21 years old before you can harm yourself with alcohol.
But there is no age restriction for buying a firearm with which you can harm yourself and others.........

[kallend 1,621]

“Take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Obama.

Oh, wait, that was TRUMP!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[GoGoGadget 0]

RonD1120

I vote for age 18. If you can marry, serve in the military and vote you should be able to own a firearm of your choice.

We cannot control every aspect of society. Bad things happen but good people prevail.

Let the existing laws punish the bad people.

Let good people do what is necessary to feel safe, have a sense of well being and protect themselves, their families and their communities.

If you need to live in completely protected community, do so. If you have the spirit and confidence to live in an open community you should have the right to do that as well.

Don't try to make all of the U.S.A. a protected community. It goes against our very spirit of freedom and liberty.

I think we should be consistent. If you have to be 21 to buy a gun, then make it 21 for everything else. Enter a legal contract, join the military, marry, etc.

The 2nd Amendment, just like the rest of the Bill of Rights, does not grant anything. It is a list of restrictions on the government. So if we are going to ignore that for a false sense of security, let's do the same for the rest.

It is our reverence for the 4th and 5th Amendments that allows many dangerous people to run amok. Our reverence for the 1st allows the press and Hollywood to glorify violent acts encouraging nutjobs to replicate them. When someone is suspected of being a nutjob, maybe house a few soldiers in the spare bedroom of the McMansion to keep an eye on them. Some common sense restrictions on the 3rd amendment would surely increase our safety. Maybe loosen up on the 8th amendment a bit. Televise horrific executions of these nutjobs and maybe they would rethink their admiration of previous acts of violence?

:D

[purevl 1]

Quote

But there is no age restriction for buying a firearm with which you can harm yourself and others.........

There are restrictions. You currently have to be 21 in order to buy a handgun, 18 to buy a rifle.

[DJL 232]

Hooknswoop

I'm torn on this one. While an 18-year old can enlist and be sent into war. some 21 year olds shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. I guess the same I don't believe in the minimum of 6-hours of freefall to attend an an AFFI course, I don't think turning 18 or 21 makes you instantly responsible enough to own a firearm.

I am not comfortable with demonstrating competency before being granted a constitutional right. The easy comparison is having to pass some sort of test before having the freedom of speech. The responsibility isn't the same. Yes, one could cause risk to life with freedom of expression, but not the same as the 2nd amendment.

I would vote "yes" for a 21-year old minimum old restriction to buy or even own a firearm if there was an exception that anyone in the
was military was exempt.

Derek V

Not to invoke a nanny state here but do we really want to create a life event that combines buying your first gun and your first all-night drunken bender?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DJL 232]

Quote

I think we should be consistent. If you have to be 21 to buy a gun, then make it 21 for everything else. Enter a legal contract, join the military, marry, etc.

Just responding to yours because you're the last to address it, I know you're speaking sarcastically.

There's zero reason to have an age requirement for one thing just because there's one for the other. They have zero to do with each other and a universal "Age of Can" is fairly ridiculous.

If anything, keeping those ages to a time when they're under their parent's roof provides a quantity of guidance they otherwise don't have.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[yoink 321]

DJL

Derek V

Not to invoke a nanny state here but do we really want to create a life event that combines buying your first gun and your first all-night drunken bender?

I wouldn't worry about it. Our legal age of drinking is 18 in the UK. Most people go on their first drunken bender at about 14 or 15.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Legal age in Manitoba is 18 for liquor. 18 to 20 year olds pour over the border on Saturday night to indulge. Just wait a few months till we have legal pot.......

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wmw999 2,116]

Me, I blame the spring break shows on MTV. I was able to drink legally at 18, and I don't remember news stories about kids all over OD'ing on alcohol. Sometimes, but drunken bashes were'nt all de rigeur and all.

We could ban MTV, and maybe Duck Dynasty to go along with it. Let's go back to Andy and Opie...

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[kallend 1,621]

wmw999

Me, I blame the spring break shows on MTV. I was able to drink legally at 18, and I don't remember news stories about kids all over OD'ing on alcohol. Sometimes, but drunken bashes were'nt all de rigeur and all.

We could ban MTV, and maybe Duck Dynasty to go along with it. Let's go back to Andy and Opie...

Wendy P.

How about TV in general. Hundreds of shows that celebrate dysfunctional behavior and make it something to aspire to.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billeisele 122]

kallend

“Take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Obama.

Oh, wait, that was TRUMP!

that is taken out of context of the full conversation about folks with mental issues, another fail

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[billeisele 122]

Hooknswoop

I'm torn on this one. While an 18-year old can enlist and be sent into war. some 21 year olds shouldn't be anywhere near a firearm. I guess the same I don't believe in the minimum of 6-hours of freefall to attend an an AFFI course, I don't think turning 18 or 21 makes you instantly responsible enough to own a firearm.

I am not comfortable with demonstrating competency before being granted a constitutional right. The easy comparison is having to pass some sort of test before having the freedom of speech. The responsibility isn't the same. Yes, one could cause risk to life with freedom of expression, but not the same as the 2nd amendment.

I would vote "yes" for a 21-year old minimum old restriction to buy or even own a firearm if there was an exception that anyone in the
was military was exempt.

Derek V

that seems to be a reasonable accommodation, may need to add other qualify factors

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[DJL 232]

billeisele

***“Take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Obama.

Oh, wait, that was TRUMP!

that is taken out of context of the full conversation about folks with mental issues, another fail

But not by much at all, because the process would be confirming that the person has a mental health issue. You can't report that someone is acting weird and being threatening and take their guns away or take any other action against them, people act like that all the time. What exactly would it be for which you could report them to the police and have the police take action. Pence said it would be a situation where the person is a threat to themselves or a threat to others but how is that process of evaluation and action any different than what we're doing.

The bottom line is that in many situations that person needs to do something illegal first. Brandishing a firearm in a threatening way is one of those things but I don't know that we've seen that happen in previous situations, these people appear to be very discreet before they act. It's only afterwards that the signs become apparent. Besides, this guy in Florida is one of the VERY FEW PEOPLE who said things and did things that really merited looking into.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kallend 1,621]

billeisele

***“Take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Obama.

Oh, wait, that was TRUMP!

that is taken out of context of the full conversation about folks with mental issues, another fail

Lame. Another fact-free post from billeisele.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Glitch 0]

I'm not in favor of any further laws or restrictions regarding firearms. It won't accomplish anything constructive (with respect to Liberty and saving lives) and it's all just 'creep'.... Here's a 'not so novel' idea; Why not address the REAL problems and enforce the laws already on the books.

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...