Do you have the ability to distinguish a factual statement from an opinion statement?

[jakee 1,254]

airdvr

Absolutely not...more than likely a problem with the folks who pull the strings.

And do you think that is any sort of analog of the reasons why the school system sometimes faills?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Bob_Church 7]

DJL

Interesting that when you scroll down it looks like both Republicans and Democrats get it wrong on questions for which their party line favors it being fact vs opinion.

Personally, I just don't think a child can be educated without the participation of a parent or parents. We can continue dumping all the duties of home on the K-12 teachers but that doesn't mean it's going to work.

[airdvr 197]

billvon

>If you feel the nation needs better education do something about it.

He is. What are you doing? Or do you really prefer ignorance?

Not my profession...sorry. But I did encourage my children to learn a trade vs. the US system of higher educ...umm...err...higher tuition.

Let me clarify it for you; college perfessers can't throw dirt on the education level of the nation without getting some on themselves.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,391]

>Not my profession...sorry.

Not mine either. But I spend about a week a year working in STEM programs here - the San Diego Festival of Science and Engineering, the Thinkabit lab and the STEM in Your Backyard series. You could too if you wanted.

>But I did encourage my children to learn a trade vs. the US system of higher educ...umm...err...higher tuition.

Sorry to hear that.

[airdvr 197]

billvon

>Not my profession...sorry.

Not mine either. But I spend about a week a year working in STEM programs here - the San Diego Festival of Science and Engineering, the Thinkabit lab and the STEM in Your Backyard series. You could too if you wanted.

>But I did encourage my children to learn a trade vs. the US system of higher educ...umm...err...higher tuition.

Sorry to hear that.

Why? My son is a Nuclear Machinists Mate on a new Virginia Class Sub being commissioned in September. USS Indiana.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTdmcCODPA4

The things he's learned have earned him his EPA Certificate and a trade in commercial HVAC systems. The Navy gave him a signing bonus of $91K when he graduated nuke school in Charleston and will likely put another carrot out to him when he gets to within 18 months of the end of his commitment (he's 2 years out now). Guess how much he paid for that education...

My daughter also enlisted in the USN but was seperated due to an under-age drinking charge. I'm still encouraging her to learn a trade.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,391]

>Why?

Because an ignorant society is why we have anti-vaxxers, and Truthers, and climate change deniers, and Apollo hoaxers. It is why the Flat Earth Society is making a comeback. It's why creationism is believed by a significant fraction of the US. It's why people think fluoride, GMO's and cooked food are poison. It's why people think smart meters are bathing them in deadly radiation - but sunbathing is fine. It's why bothsiderism is a thing now; that any two opinions are equally valid, even if one is uninformed. We have begun to worship ignorance, and find virtue in denial (and scorn of) things like science and math.

Education is largely an antidote to that.

>My daughter also enlisted in the USN but was seperated due to an under-age drinking
>charge. I'm still encouraging her to learn a trade.

I hope things work out for her. Education will widen her options.

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

Not my profession...sorry. But I did encourage my children

So you have kids, and they needed to be edcated. And presumably they have, or at some point in time will have, kids who need educating.

But you're not a teacher, so pressuring the folks who pull the strings to build a better education system for your kids, grandkids and great grandkids has absolutely nothing to do with you!

That's the good old american ethic of personal responsibility we know and love.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

Let me clarify it for you; college perfessers can't throw dirt on the education level of the nation without getting some on themselves.

US secondary education achievement levels may not be so great by international standards. US post-secondary education, on the other hand, is quite good, which is why our universities attract so many students from those countries with better secondary education.

US secondary education struggles in large part because many American students are raised in households in which willful ignorance or disdain for education, those two cornerstones of contemporary American conservatism, are common.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 1,622]

I teach engineering students. People who will shortly become very productive members of society producing the knowledge that your hero Trump claims is being stolen by the Chinese to the detriment of the US economy.

You are a symptom of much that's wrong with our society.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 910]

kallend

I teach engineering students. People who will shortly become very productive members of society producing the knowledge that your hero Trump claims is being stolen by the Chinese to the detriment of the US economy.

You are a symptom of much that's wrong with our society.

The theft of intellectual property is not exclusively a Chinese phenomenon. Everyone does it but China excels. Every trade agreement contains patent and intellectual rights protections.
China’s New Silk Road Encroaches on U.S. Turf in Eastern Europe
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-12/china-s-new-silk-road-encroaches-on-u-s-turf-in-eastern-europe

"From Poland on the Baltic Sea to Slovakia, Hungary and Bulgaria along the Danube river, governments are wooing Chinese investors to, in some cases, replace U.S. companies that are pulling out. It’s a sign of what’s in store with Trump’s America relinquishing its role as the world leader on issues from climate change to free trade and Chinese President Xi Jinping championing internationalism."

AI
China’s massive investment in artificial intelligence has an insidious downside
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/02/china-s-massive-investment-artificial-intelligence-has-insidious-downside

China’s blueprint to crush the US robotics industry
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/chinas-blueprint-to-crush-the-us-robotics-industry.html

trump
Border walls, gave up on infrastructure plan, rewards CEO's and tax breaks at expense of deficits, incites divisions.

If Trump seems bad, remember Caligula
A nation’s institutions will hold it together if a madman takes the helm
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/if-trump-seems-bad-remember-caligula/

"Take his portrait of the viciously self-indulgent Caligula. His desire to humiliate senators and officials and to put on shows, dress up, act, sing and dance, made him very popular with the people. Consuls who forgot his birthday were stripped of office for three days. He ordered the death or exile of senators, friends and relatives with complete insouciance. His dark humour reflected his actions: ‘I can do anything I please, to anybody’ was his mantra.

He demanded that the finest Greek statues of the gods be brought to Rome, and have their heads replaced with his. He set up a temple to himself and would invite the full moon to share his bed. He acquired and got rid of wives almost at random, made a habit of seducing women of distinguished families,,"

[gowlerk 1,903]

America has a long history of industrial espionage. Going back at least as far as 1790 and the cotton industry. Every industrial country and most tech companies engage in this.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,622]

Does the President of the United States of America have the ability to tell fact from fiction?

www.snopes.com/fact-check/have-undocumented-killed-63000-us-9-11/

He certainly has the ability to tell lies:

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Quote

Guess how much he paid for that education...

The US taxpayer paid it for him. You are advocating and promoting socialized education.

[airdvr 197]

SkyDekker

Quote

Guess how much he paid for that education...

The US taxpayer paid it for him. You are advocating and promoting socialized education.

We already have socialized education. K-12 schools are paid for by the taxpayer. How much of the tab are taxpayers picking up for a college education through grants and such? No different and in many ways better. At least the government gets something back for the money they've spent. And the recipient doesn't enter the workforce with huge student loans that will never be paid back.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[airdvr 197]

kallend

I teach engineering students. People who will shortly become very productive heavily indebted members of society producing the knowledge that your hero Trump claims is being stolen by the Chinese to the detriment of the US economy.

You are a symptom of much that's wrong with our society.

As are you John. The business you work for are in lockstep with the government and the student loan ponzi scheme. While you might not have them, your business is laden with people who continue to suckle at the teet of Uncle Sam because they're unprepared for the world we live in. It's only after the student loan teet is ripped from their mouthes do they start complaining about how much student loans cost. And you can bet they will live their lives indebted to the government until they croak.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,391]

>While you might not have them, your business is laden with people who continue to suckle at
>the teet of Uncle Sam because they're unprepared for the world we live in.

That describes quite a few soldiers I've known quite well.

[Bob_Church 7]

There are some bizarre beliefs out there about education. I think education is a very good investment by society, but it also means that grade inflation is welfare fraud and should be treated as such.
Instead I've actually heard this from faculty. "The students have paid for their degrees so they should get them." The truth is that even if tuition covered 100% of costs, and at OU, a state university, it's less than 30%, the idea of paying for a degree is something right out of the ad on a matchbook.
Ohio University keeps cutting tenure track positions, filling them with adjuncts, then evaluating the adjuncts by the evaluations the students filled out because it fits right into the computer and is easy to scan. Then they actually say they don't understand where the rampant grade inflation is coming from.

[Bob_Church 7]

airdvr

***

I teach engineering students. People who will shortly become very productive heavily indebted members of society producing the knowledge that your hero Trump claims is being stolen by the Chinese to the detriment of the US economy.

You are a symptom of much that's wrong with our society.

As are you John. The business you work for are in lockstep with the government and the student loan ponzi scheme. While you might not have them, your business is laden with people who continue to suckle at the teet of Uncle Sam because they're unprepared for the world we live in. It's only after the student loan teet is ripped from their mouthes do they start complaining about how much student loans cost. And you can bet they will live their lives indebted to the government until they croak.

The push for a four year degree for everyone has screwed over an entire generation. Badly. Degrees help some people but not all. Votech type schools give young people the skills they need to do a job without saddling them with debt. Too often a degree ends up as four years of grade 13 and more debt than they'll ever get out from under.

[wmw999 2,119]

Quote

The push for a four year degree for everyone has screwed over an entire generation. Badly. Degrees help some people but not all. Votech type schools give young people the skills they need to do a job without saddling them with debt. Too often a degree ends up as four years of grade 13 and more debt than they'll ever get out from under.

I completely agree. The problem is that for generations, minority and blue-collar children were pushed into votech tracks, regardless of their affinity for that kind of job, or potential if educated at the college level.

So now we've gone too far the other way. Hopefully, instead of swinging way over the other way again (as is happening with politics), the swing will be dampened somewhat by experience.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bob_Church 7]

wmw999

Quote

The push for a four year degree for everyone has screwed over an entire generation. Badly. Degrees help some people but not all. Votech type schools give young people the skills they need to do a job without saddling them with debt. Too often a degree ends up as four years of grade 13 and more debt than they'll ever get out from under.

I completely agree. The problem is that for generations, minority and blue-collar children were pushed into votech tracks, regardless of their affinity for that kind of job, or potential if educated at the college level.

So now we've gone too far the other way. Hopefully, instead of swinging way over the other way again (as is happening with politics), the swing will be dampened somewhat by experience.

Wendy P.

One problem though is that the pendulum isn't swinging free this time. Too many people are making too much money fleecing young people to let this go without a fight.

[jcd11235 0]

airdvr

It's only after the student loan teet is ripped from their mouthes do they start complaining about how much student loans cost. And you can bet they will live their lives indebted to the government until they croak.

I graduated with well above average levels of student debt. One year's worth of salary difference is more than sufficient to cover the debt incurred. Another couple year's difference is sufficient to cover wages lost while attending school.

Although I had well-meaning parents try to discourage me from attending university for all the reasons you've mentioned (and more), in hindsight, theirs was mind-bogglingly bad advice.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[kallend 1,622]

airdvr

***

I teach engineering students. People who will shortly become very productive heavily indebted members of society producing the knowledge that your hero Trump claims is being stolen by the Chinese to the detriment of the US economy.

You are a symptom of much that's wrong with our society.

As are you John. The business you work for are in lockstep with the government and the student loan ponzi scheme. While you might not have them, your business is laden with people who continue to suckle at the teet of Uncle Sam because they're unprepared for the world we live in. It's only after the student loan teet is ripped from their mouthes do they start complaining about how much student loans cost. And you can bet they will live their lives indebted to the government until they croak.

Oh cry me a river.



A good education is just about the best investment it is possible to make for your children.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.