Sarah Sanders, Feed her, or boot her?

[gowlerk 1,902]

That's also true Bill. My long winded comment about Ron's religious group has little to do with the content of this thread. His answer that anyone should be able to refuse service to anyone for any or no reason is very narrow. Like a finely crafted SCOTUS decision designed to not really answer a question and to offend as few as possible.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,380]

>If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color
>of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

If you think it's OK for someone to buy a gun and then shoot someone, how is that not condoning murder?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

billvon

>If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color
>of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

If you think it's OK for someone to buy a gun and then shoot someone, how is that not condoning murder?

It is condoning murder. I'm not sure there is disagreement here.

[billvon 2,380]

>It is condoning murder.

OK, so you condone murder, Ron condones racism. That's an odd way to define it though.

[mistercwood 287]

I've been a little torn on this one... When I worked sales years ago, I once sold a prepaid phone to a known and infamous convicted paedophile (he'd done his time). It was icky, but I did it, because I didn't feel at the time I was in a position to refuse to do it and I was most of the way through the transaction before I pegged who he was when he gave me his ID.

I wasn't the owner though. In the restaurant case, if it was just a server who refused it could be a bit different, however since it was the owner and it was done politely I don't think it was the worst possible action.

I will add also for some posters here saying that this was a grab for "attention" or "fame" - almost no-one would have known about it if Sanders didn't tweet about how hard done by she was. Which I also agree was a clear ethics violation.

You are playing chicken with a planet - you can't dodge and planets don't blink. Act accordingly.

[JoeWeber 2,294]

billvon

>It is condoning murder.

OK, so you condone murder, Ron condones racism. That's an odd way to define it though.

>You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

You asked an absurd question and I answered "not publicly" as an off hand way of telling you. I do not condone murder and I do think it should be legal to own guns.

Ron does condone racism and has done so with his own words.

[billvon 2,380]

>I do not condone murder and I do think it should be legal to own guns.

Many people conflate the two - just as you conflate Ron's thinking that store owners should have the right to refuse service to anyone and racism.

You can USE that right to be racist, of course, just as you can USE the right to own a gun to murder. But one does not guarantee the other.

I am sure you have shopped in stores where there is a sign on the wall that says "the management reserves the right to refuse service." I am equally sure you did not think "oh, so they must support racism!"

[JoeWeber 2,294]

billvon

>I do not condone murder and I do think it should be legal to own guns.

Many people conflate the two - just as you conflate Ron's thinking that store owners should have the right to refuse service to anyone and racism.

You can USE that right to be racist, of course, just as you can USE the right to own a gun to murder. But one does not guarantee the other.

I am sure you have shopped in stores where there is a sign on the wall that says "the management reserves the right to refuse service." I am equally sure you did not think "oh, so they must support racism!"

I asked Ron this:

>Do you think a private business should be allowed to exclude anyone >they like regardless of reason as a fundamental prerogative? For >example African Americans, Homosexuals, Sikhs, Muslims, Liars or >anyone else that makes the business owner feel uncomfortable?

He answered this:

>I stated my belief regarding the rights of business owners above. It is >my belief, it is not the law.

That was a reiteration of his stating this:

>I believe strongly that any business person has the right to refuse >service to anyone.

Now maybe you are right and I am reading too much into it but I don't think so. I think those are explicit statements condoning what he believes is a private businesses right to discriminate on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious beliefs.

Why not take a step back and let the old dog pee on his own bush? I'm sure he's following our back and forth with glee.

[Bob_Church 7]

I think Nietzche nailed this one.

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster."

I think this was a very bad move, but it's not Sanders I'm worried about.

Edit: as far as eating there, serving their customers would have been professional. I think what they did was very unprofessional, and I'm not going to eat food that unprofessional people have been alone with. Like I said earlier, what if I'm wearing a skydiving t-shirt? I've had to explain to more than one Art student that no, being a skydiver doesn't mean that I'm a right wing hardcore bad-ass who hates gays. If someone in the kitchen crew thinks this and sees my shirt am I going to get the "chef's special?"

[SkyDekker 1,120]

Not like this hasn't been done before. Republicans generally applauded this one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-biden-baker-sarah-huckabee-red-hen-20180626-story.html

And now the snowflake needs Secret Service protection to make sure she can have dinner.

[Bob_Church 7]

SkyDekker

Not like this hasn't been done before. Republicans generally applauded this one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-biden-baker-sarah-huckabee-red-hen-20180626-story.html

And now the snowflake needs Secret Service protection to make sure she can have dinner.

That was deeply screwed up.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

To be clear, it is this statement. Correct?

>I believe strongly that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone.

Yes. I remember when signs were posted in businesses, especially restaurants and bars.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

jclalor

Wait until an establishment refuses service to Christians or Veterans... The revolution will be on.

How would they know?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

***

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rushmc 18]

RonD1120

******

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

The left, Democrats, have been making this kind of shit up for decades!

I doubt you have any expectation that they're going to stop doing it now.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[RonD1120 58]

JoeWeber

***>I do not condone murder and I do think it should be legal to own guns.

Many people conflate the two - just as you conflate Ron's thinking that store owners should have the right to refuse service to anyone and racism.

You can USE that right to be racist, of course, just as you can USE the right to own a gun to murder. But one does not guarantee the other.

I am sure you have shopped in stores where there is a sign on the wall that says "the management reserves the right to refuse service." I am equally sure you did not think "oh, so they must support racism!"

I asked Ron this:

>Do you think a private business should be allowed to exclude anyone >they like regardless of reason as a fundamental prerogative? For >example African Americans, Homosexuals, Sikhs, Muslims, Liars or >anyone else that makes the business owner feel uncomfortable?

He answered this:

>I stated my belief regarding the rights of business owners above. It is >my belief, it is not the law.

That was a reiteration of his stating this:

>I believe strongly that any business person has the right to refuse >service to anyone.

Now maybe you are right and I am reading too much into it but I don't think so. I think those are explicit statements condoning what he believes is a private businesses right to discriminate on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious beliefs.

Why not take a step back and let the old dog pee on his own bush? I'm sure he's following our back and forth with glee.

Yes, I am; think Libertarian.

To paraphrase from A Course In Miracles, you see what you believe is there and you believe it is there because you want it there.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

rushmc

*********

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

The left, Democrats, have been making this kind of shit up for decades!

I doubt you have any expectation that they're going to stop doing it now.

You're right and, I don't.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DJL 232]

What's cracking me up about this is it really is some white-people-who-think-they're-doing-something bullshit. Do you guys think there aren't kitchens full of Latinos in DC who serve her food every single day? All of a sudden a little Lexington VA restaurant gets a politician at one of their tables and they feel like they're standing up for something.

Where was all this energy back during the election when they could have actually done something? Where were the donations? Where was the volunteering? If this guy is Hitler light where was that passion to keep Hitler light out of the Whitehouse?

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[JoeWeber 2,294]

RonD1120

******

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

Then set the record straight with a direct and affirmative answer. Do you believe a business should be allowed to discriminate, as in deny services or goods to someone, on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious belief?

[jcd11235 0]

Bolas

One could argue this was not personal, but political. Had she been kicked out for a personal reason not related to her job...

One could make that argument, but it wouldn't withstand scrutiny. She was there in her personal capacity. Any reaction was a personal reaction.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bob_Church 7]

JoeWeber

*********

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

Then set the record straight with a direct and affirmative answer. Do you believe a business should be allowed to discriminate, as in deny services or goods to someone, on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious belief?

Why should he do that? Did he lose a bet or something and now he's obligated to you?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

Bob_Church

************

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

Then set the record straight with a direct and affirmative answer. Do you believe a business should be allowed to discriminate, as in deny services or goods to someone, on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious belief?

Why should he do that? Did he lose a bet or something and now he's obligated to you?

Because he prevaricated instead of answering previous questions.

[Rick 67]

JoeWeber

***************

Quote

that Ron would openly and in a public forum admit to condoning racism, homophobia, religious intolerance, bigotry or any other pretense, no matter how thin or unfair, as perfectly legitimate reasons to discriminate and yet in the same breath also claim to be a follower of Christ.

He didn't. He said that he thought that any business person has the right to refuse service to anyone. That's not the same as "condoning racism." At most it is providing others with the opportunity to be racists.

You think it should be legal to own guns. Does that mean you publicly condone murder?

Not publicly. If Ron believes it's cool for a business to turn someone away for no other reason than the color of their skin, how is that not condoning racism?

I never said that. It is your imagination.

Then set the record straight with a direct and affirmative answer. Do you believe a business should be allowed to discriminate, as in deny services or goods to someone, on the basis of skin color, sexual orientation or religious belief?

Why should he do that? Did he lose a bet or something and now he's obligated to you?

Because he prevaricated instead of answering previous questions.


why should Ron answer? You are doing just fine putting words in his mouth.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[GeorgiaDon 340]

SkyDekker

Not like this hasn't been done before. Republicans generally applauded this one:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-news-biden-baker-sarah-huckabee-red-hen-20180626-story.html

And now the snowflake needs Secret Service protection to make sure she can have dinner.

Not totally comparable situations. According to the article, Biden was campaigning in the area and the idea was to use his stop at the bakery as a photo op. I don't think people have an obligation to allow their business to be used as a campaign venue, especially if they do not agree with the candidate's policies.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[jcd11235 0]

GeorgiaDon

Not totally comparable situations. According to the article, Biden was campaigning in the area and the idea was to use his stop at the bakery as a photo op. I don't think people have an obligation to allow their business to be used as a campaign venue, especially if they do not agree with the candidate's policies.

Nor did they have any sort of obligation to feed Sanders. It is admirable that they would sacrifice the revenue in order to do the right thing.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

A good person stood up and said, "No. Not in my restaurant."
I'm shocked and appalled at some of the criticisms she's received for demonstrating high moral character and integrity.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!