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Phil1111

Sarah Sanders, Feed her, or boot her?

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rushmc

Just based on your posts on this site, you are no libertarian! IMO...



By Golly, you do have the reading comprehension problem Kallend has observed. So, those little hash marks outside of the words are quotation marks. Those are used to identify a different persons words. And for the record I'm actually a Frisbeetarian.

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JoeWeber

***When I worked in the counseling profession I enjoyed clients and colleagues alike that were blacks, Hispanics, Latinos, and homosexuals. One colleague was a Sikh but no Muslims. I could not nor would not refuse service to anyone.

In today's litigious world you have to be very careful how you behave and what you say. There is always someone with an agenda looking to trap you in some way that could be costly, even if you are innocent.

As a Libertarian thinker, I believe a business owner should have to right to do business with his choice of clientele. The liberal law puts restrictions on that practice. It is what it is.

Remember the Soup Nazi character from Seinfeld? One minor infraction of his rules and, "No soup for you."




"In today's litigious world you have to be very careful how you behave and what you say. There is always someone with an agenda looking to trap you in some way that could be costly, even if you are innocent.

As a Libertarian thinker, I believe a business owner should have to right to do business with his choice of clientele. The liberal law puts restrictions on that practice. It is what it is."

You are right, I can not believe I just typed, that we live in a litigious world and care must be taken lest one slander another or self incriminate. The good news is that you won't be sued for not being a racist, a homophobe or a randomly intolerant asshole. It's being one or the other or all that gets you in trouble.

That you claim fears speaks loudly.

All of this is an imaginary problem to me. I have been in the restaurant business, the banking business, the motel/hotel business, the professional parachuting business, and finally in the counseling business. In short, I have always been employed in some form of the service industries. I have never encountered these issues personally. I read about them here or in the news and I think it's a minor issue that someone is trying to make major. It is largely just a waste of mental energy.

As a recovering alcoholic, I know that I can only maintain control over my life. I have no control beyond that.

As a born-again Christian, I know that everything is in accordance with God's will. He is not surprised or troubled by anything that occurs in the world.

My purpose in life is to seek His will for my life and draw closer to Him. The rest of this stuff is just that, the stuff of life. It is like watching a movie.

What I have learned is that Christ is the focal point of my light beam in a field of infinite light beams. My purpose is to stay focused on the light and not become enmeshed in the illusory problems elsewhere.

New American Standard Bible
Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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BIGUN

************Do you think it is right for a DZO to refuse service to a military veteran skydiver that had the word "Infidel" tattooed on his leg in Arabic because Muslim jumpers were there also?



If that really happened I'll bet there is far more to the story than you just told.

If there is it was not made public, AFAIK.

And no, that's not what happened either. Guy had the "Kafir" tattoo on his leg which isn't "infidel" in it's most tame translation and at it's worst is intended as a big fuck you to Muslims, General complains, manifest asks if he can do something about it but never asks him to leave, dude goes and stirs up media shit about how VETERAN WAS KICKED OUT etc. etc.

Kafir means, "unbeliever." Which is the big fuck you to about every religion. Which leads me to a question. If a man showed up at a dropzone and had a tattoo that said "atheist" during a christian skydivers convention; would he be asked to do something about it? And, if he didn't do something about "it" was he told he'd have to leave?

As one of the founders of the Christian Skydivers Association, I can assure you the answer is no. Back in the day, we hosted many Freefall Fellowships and everyone was welcome.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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lets be honest, he didn't have "kafir" tatooed in his native tongue, English. It was in Arabic. That's not a fuck you to all religions, it's a fuck you to Islam.

The Christian analogy would be a tatoo of the cross with a big red X over it, or something similar. Combine that with hanging around the Christian skydivers, giving dirty looks and I could see someone saying something to management. Especially if the Christians were having their boogie in Dubai and the tatooed guy was a local. They would rightly feel threatened and might express that to the DZO.

- Dan G

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Kafir means, "unbeliever." Which is the big fuck you to about every religion. Which leads me to a question. If a man showed up at a dropzone and had a tattoo that said "atheist" during a christian skydivers convention; would he be asked to do something about it? And, if he didn't do something about "it" was he told he'd have to leave?



The guys was not asked to leave. Go read the thread and raise the question there. He even went around telling people that he was going to stick it in their face to see if he could raise some shit and get a story to blog about. And no, the English meaning for atheist and the Arabic meaning for kafir are not the same just because there's a similar Webster dictionary definition. That's like saying it's Ok to call someone a "negro" because it's Spanish for black or use the word "bitch" because it means a female dog.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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As one of the founders of the Christian Skydivers Association, I can assure you the answer is no. Back in the day, we hosted many Freefall Fellowships and everyone was welcome.



Yeah, I attended a couple of those, Ron. The atmosphere was not unlike that of the Christian Bikers. The general consensus among most of the Christian groups has been, "It's alright if you don't believe in Him; He believes in you."
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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DanG

lets be honest, he didn't have "kafir" tatooed in his native tongue, English. It was in Arabic. That's not a fuck you to all religions, it's a fuck you to Islam.

The Christian analogy would be a tatoo of the cross with a big red X over it, or something similar. Combine that with hanging around the Christian skydivers, giving dirty looks and I could see someone saying something to management. Especially if the Christians were having their boogie in Dubai and the tatooed guy was a local. They would rightly feel threatened and might express that to the DZO.



Thanks, Dan. Well put.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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DJL

Quote


Kafir means, "unbeliever." Which is the big fuck you to about every religion. Which leads me to a question. If a man showed up at a dropzone and had a tattoo that said "atheist" during a christian skydivers convention; would he be asked to do something about it? And, if he didn't do something about "it" was he told he'd have to leave?



The guys was not asked to leave. Go read the thread and raise the question there. He even went around telling people that he was going to stick it in their face to see if he could raise some shit and get a story to blog about. And no, the English meaning for atheist and the Arabic meaning for kafir are not the same just because there's a similar Webster dictionary definition. That's like saying it's Ok to call someone a "negro" because it's Spanish for black or use the word "bitch" because it means a female dog.



Thanks. I wasn't trying to debate it although it may have come across that way. Was just trying to wrap some context around it.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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RonD1120

******When I worked in the counseling profession I enjoyed clients and colleagues alike that were blacks, Hispanics, Latinos, and homosexuals. One colleague was a Sikh but no Muslims. I could not nor would not refuse service to anyone.

In today's litigious world you have to be very careful how you behave and what you say. There is always someone with an agenda looking to trap you in some way that could be costly, even if you are innocent.

As a Libertarian thinker, I believe a business owner should have to right to do business with his choice of clientele. The liberal law puts restrictions on that practice. It is what it is.

Remember the Soup Nazi character from Seinfeld? One minor infraction of his rules and, "No soup for you."




"In today's litigious world you have to be very careful how you behave and what you say. There is always someone with an agenda looking to trap you in some way that could be costly, even if you are innocent.

As a Libertarian thinker, I believe a business owner should have to right to do business with his choice of clientele. The liberal law puts restrictions on that practice. It is what it is."

You are right, I can not believe I just typed, that we live in a litigious world and care must be taken lest one slander another or self incriminate. The good news is that you won't be sued for not being a racist, a homophobe or a randomly intolerant asshole. It's being one or the other or all that gets you in trouble.

That you claim fears speaks loudly.

All of this is an imaginary problem to me. I have been in the restaurant business, the banking business, the motel/hotel business, the professional parachuting business, and finally in the counseling business. In short, I have always been employed in some form of the service industries. I have never encountered these issues personally. I read about them here or in the news and I think it's a minor issue that someone is trying to make major. It is largely just a waste of mental energy.

As a recovering alcoholic, I know that I can only maintain control over my life. I have no control beyond that.

As a born-again Christian, I know that everything is in accordance with God's will. He is not surprised or troubled by anything that occurs in the world.

My purpose in life is to seek His will for my life and draw closer to Him. The rest of this stuff is just that, the stuff of life. It is like watching a movie.

What I have learned is that Christ is the focal point of my light beam in a field of infinite light beams. My purpose is to stay focused on the light and not become enmeshed in the illusory problems elsewhere.

New American Standard Bible
Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

"As a born-again Christian, I know that everything is in accordance with God's will. He is not surprised or troubled by anything that occurs in the world.

My purpose in life is to seek His will for my life and draw closer to Him. The rest of this stuff is just that, the stuff of life. It is like watching a movie."


So that's it. There is no need to be concerned with social justice because it's Gods world and if He doesn't give a fuck why should we? Any screams from those going through the meat grinder are not our concern. Viewed in it's proper context it's actually entertainment; just like going to the movies.

Thank you. You've answered my question. I wanted to know how you reconciled your Christian faith with the circumstances of your fellow human beings who might be treated unfairly because of who they are or how they were born. Now I know.

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JoeWeber



Thank you. You've answered my question. I wanted to know how you reconciled your Christian faith with the circumstances of your fellow human beings who might be treated unfairly because of who they are or how they were born. Now I know.



I am pleased to know you have reached a closure.

An ancient saying, those who think they know do not know. Those who know they do not know do know.

IOW, as soon as something is defined the secret is lost.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

***

Thank you. You've answered my question. I wanted to know how you reconciled your Christian faith with the circumstances of your fellow human beings who might be treated unfairly because of who they are or how they were born. Now I know.



I am pleased to know you have reached a closure.

An ancient saying, those who think they know do not know. Those who know they do not know do know.

IOW, as soon as something is defined the secret is lost.


I have no closure. I sit here simultaneously appalled and freaked the fuck out that people like you have so much influence in America today. You treat life as a virtual reality game that's all chock full of transitory moments of glee and fear and if a few unfortunates get tossed off the ride, mashed in the works or hit by the pinball along the way it's no worries mate, all Gods plan.

Most confounding is how glibly you reconcile the tenets of your faith with your lack of concern for the misfortune of those not in your personal favor or sphere. That, I do not get at all.

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JoeWeber

******

Thank you. You've answered my question. I wanted to know how you reconciled your Christian faith with the circumstances of your fellow human beings who might be treated unfairly because of who they are or how they were born. Now I know.



I am pleased to know you have reached a closure.

An ancient saying, those who think they know do not know. Those who know they do not know do know.

IOW, as soon as something is defined the secret is lost.


I have no closure. I sit here simultaneously appalled and freaked the fuck out that people like you have so much influence in America today. You treat life as a virtual reality game that's all chock full of transitory moments of glee and fear and if a few unfortunates get tossed off the ride, mashed in the works or hit by the pinball along the way it's no worries mate, all Gods plan.

Most confounding is how glibly you reconcile the tenets of your faith with your lack of concern for the misfortune of those not in your personal favor or sphere. That, I do not get at all.

I understand your frustration. You have a high and honorable goals and ideas and it angers you that not everyone agrees with your well thought out plan.

I believe that we should concern ourselves with our community and become involved elsewhere by sending missionaries to work in the other communities.

When I viewed my place in the world similar to your concept I found that the anger required alcohol to find peace of mind. The more I drank the shorter the duration of peace.

By turning over the problems I faced to a higher power, namely Jesus Christ, they dissipated to the point of near non-existence. The scriptures point us to and reinforce that understanding.

God is on the throne. Life experience contains pain, sorrow, and suffering along with joy and happiness. Jesus is the focal point for understanding how the life energy process flows.

In closing let me pose a question. Do you realize that you are disagreeing with my position that the restaurant owner had the right not to serve Sarah Sanders and therefore you are supporting who Sarah Sanders represents?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

*********

Thank you. You've answered my question. I wanted to know how you reconciled your Christian faith with the circumstances of your fellow human beings who might be treated unfairly because of who they are or how they were born. Now I know.



I am pleased to know you have reached a closure.

An ancient saying, those who think they know do not know. Those who know they do not know do know.

IOW, as soon as something is defined the secret is lost.


I have no closure. I sit here simultaneously appalled and freaked the fuck out that people like you have so much influence in America today. You treat life as a virtual reality game that's all chock full of transitory moments of glee and fear and if a few unfortunates get tossed off the ride, mashed in the works or hit by the pinball along the way it's no worries mate, all Gods plan.

Most confounding is how glibly you reconcile the tenets of your faith with your lack of concern for the misfortune of those not in your personal favor or sphere. That, I do not get at all.

I understand your frustration. You have a high and honorable goals and ideas and it angers you that not everyone agrees with your well thought out plan.

I believe that we should concern ourselves with our community and become involved elsewhere by sending missionaries to work in the other communities.

When I viewed my place in the world similar to your concept I found that the anger required alcohol to find peace of mind. The more I drank the shorter the duration of peace.

By turning over the problems I faced to a higher power, namely Jesus Christ, they dissipated to the point of near non-existence. The scriptures point us to and reinforce that understanding.

God is on the throne. Life experience contains pain, sorrow, and suffering along with joy and happiness. Jesus is the focal point for understanding how the life energy process flows.

In closing let me pose a question. Do you realize that you are disagreeing with my position that the restaurant owner had the right not to serve Sarah Sanders and therefore you are supporting who Sarah Sanders represents?

It's not quite that Black and Gay. Reserving the right to refuse service is not only a good thing but can also be a necessary thing. If someone is loudly cursing and being an offensive ass because they enjoy being a jerk that's not the same as someone with Coprolalia suffering their condition and doing their best to fit in and enjoy their life as others do. Similarly, people with service animals deserve reasonable access. People gaming the system by pretending their woof buddy is a service animal deserve to be hounded out. Why? Well, they are lying, cheating, making a mockery of a necessary thing and by their actions harming innocent others. Now analogically, it's a hard parse to decide if Sanders or Trump is the dog but either way they are both despicable by their actions not by the color of their skin, perceived sexuality or by wearing a shtreimel at the buffet. The owner, as she and her staff saw things, did not need to wait for Sanders to do anything to be offended by her presence. True, she wasn't doing it there at dinner, and I don't think it was the best possible call to harass her, but I'm also sure that just like pushing a bully, it always feels pretty damn good right up until your ass whooping starts.

Would I have exercised the right with Sanders? Not a chance. Getting into a fight with someone who speaks on national TV from a podium at the White House don't seem too bright, seems to me. On the other hand, if I recognized a KKK Grand Wizard coming through the door I might send him packing and just take the heat to follow.

My problem with your stated position, as I understand it, is that it would allow for the exclusion of anyone for any reason and who up to that moment had done nothing more offensive than go out of their way to help line your pockets. Beyond being not too smart I think that is also just plain wrong.

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JoeWeber



My problem with your stated position, as I understand it, is that it would allow for the exclusion of anyone for any reason and who up to that moment had done nothing more offensive than go out of their way to help line your pockets. Beyond being not too smart I think that is also just plain wrong.



Nowhere in the thread did I take that position. I tried to explain but to no avail.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

***

My problem with your stated position, as I understand it, is that it would allow for the exclusion of anyone for any reason and who up to that moment had done nothing more offensive than go out of their way to help line your pockets. Beyond being not too smart I think that is also just plain wrong.



Nowhere in the thread did I take that position. I tried to explain but to no avail.

JoeWeber's seems a reasonable interpretation of your position, as you've presented it. If that's not the message you intended to send, consider restricting yourself to words and phrases that have actual, concrete meaning instead of meaningless fluff like "linear ego".
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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RonD1120

***

My problem with your stated position, as I understand it, is that it would allow for the exclusion of anyone for any reason and who up to that moment had done nothing more offensive than go out of their way to help line your pockets. Beyond being not too smart I think that is also just plain wrong.



Nowhere in the thread did I take that position. I tried to explain but to no avail.

Sure you did. Now, you are hard to nail down, I'll give you that, but not too hard. Read back to your replies to my questions. You gave it up, Ron, plain and simple.

jcd11235 is right. Start writing directly, sans gobbledygook, and you'll avoid being misunderstood.

Just read this obfuscating statement: Nowhere in the thread did I take that position. I tried to explain but to no avail.

Why not say: I do not believe that. Arbitrary discrimination based on race, sexuality or religion is wrong and I am opposed to it. Period.

But the problem is that unless you believe that you can not say it, hence the Ron Merry-Go-Round.

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JoeWeber



Why not say: I do not believe that. Arbitrary discrimination based on race, sexuality or religion is wrong and I am opposed to it. Period.

But the problem is ... the Ron Merry-Go-Round.



OK, I agree with the above.

Have a wonderful day.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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RonD1120

***

Why not say: I do not believe that. Arbitrary discrimination based on race, sexuality or religion is wrong and I am opposed to it. Period.

But the problem is ... the Ron Merry-Go-Round.



OK, I agree with the above.

Have a wonderful day.

What was wrong with this bit? "that unless you believe that you can not say it, hence".

I get it that everything is going up and up with no relief in sight but, at least out here in Libland, the cost of cutting and pasting is still holding steady at zero.

Some cynical bastard might think that you hold that you can say it and not believe it, hence your exclusion. Care to try again?

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On refusing service:

There's a pub round the corner from my office which had signs out all week advertising the screening of the next world cup match. It read "Uruguay v. Portugal - 30th June. No dickheads".

Thought that summed their stance up nice and succinctly.

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mr2mk1g

On refusing service:

There's a pub round the corner from my office which had signs out all week advertising the screening of the next world cup match. It read "Uruguay v. Portugal - 30th June. No dickheads".

Thought that summed their stance up nice and succinctly.



I dunno, that could still be discriminatory... :P
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Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

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mr2mk1g

On refusing service:

There's a pub round the corner from my office which had signs out all week advertising the screening of the next world cup match. It read "Uruguay v. Portugal - 30th June. No dickheads".

Thought that summed their stance up nice and succinctly.



For a soccer match? Why don't they just say "CLOSED"?

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JoeWeber

******

Why not say: I do not believe that. Arbitrary discrimination based on race, sexuality or religion is wrong and I am opposed to it. Period.

But the problem is ... the Ron Merry-Go-Round.



OK, I agree with the above.

Have a wonderful day.

What was wrong with this bit? "that unless you believe that you can not say it, hence".

I get it that everything is going up and up with no relief in sight but, at least out here in Libland, the cost of cutting and pasting is still holding steady at zero.

Some cynical bastard might think that you hold that you can say it and not believe it, hence your exclusion. Care to try again?

Ron, do you hold that you can say something and not believe it and is that why you, apparently intentionally, excluded that bit when you quoted me in reply?

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JoeWeber

*********

Why not say: I do not believe that. Arbitrary discrimination based on race, sexuality or religion is wrong and I am opposed to it. Period.

But the problem is ... the Ron Merry-Go-Round.



OK, I agree with the above.

Have a wonderful day.

What was wrong with this bit? "that unless you believe that you can not say it, hence".

I get it that everything is going up and up with no relief in sight but, at least out here in Libland, the cost of cutting and pasting is still holding steady at zero.

Some cynical bastard might think that you hold that you can say it and not believe it, hence your exclusion. Care to try again?

Ron, do you hold that you can say something and not believe it and is that why you, apparently intentionally, excluded that bit when you quoted me in reply?

Ron, this won't just go away. Why not just admit that you say things you do not believe and be at peace?

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