Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

[ryoder 1,381]

Earlier today on another forum, someone posted this w/o explanation.
Now I realize it is the subject of your story.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,380]

Some excerpts from affidavits of investigators:

=============
G is 15 years old and originally from El Salvador. In her home country, G was being threatened by a member of a criminal association. Her mother cried when G told her about this person. G and her mother fled to the U.S. They arrived in Texas in early June, 2018. Immigration officials at the border took them to a place G calls "the icebox." They told her mother that G would be taken to another place where she would be able to visit her. G and her mother said goodbye to each other while crying, but G's mother comforted her, saying she was going to visit her wherever she was going. Only later did G realize this was not true. As she recounted this moment, G was sobbing and visibly distraught.

G was taken to a shelter about 15 minutes away, where she was detained for three days. G described this place as awful. It was a room with no windows divided in three by wire fencing that made them look like three cages. 20 girls were detained in each cage. The place was freezing because they kept the air conditioner on all the time, and each child was given a mat and an aluminum blanket to keep themselves warm. The girls placed their mats in the floor very close to one another, since there was not enough space to fit them more comfortably. Girls as young as 3 years old were detained in this place and without their mothers.

G described an incident where a 4 year old girl was crying and walking towards a female guard seeking comfort. The guard turned her away saying she had no time to lose and the girl was disrupting her work. The older girls attempted to console the girl. G felt hungry most of the time she was there because the food they provided her wasn't good in quality or quantity. She could not sleep through the night; the guards would wake all the girls up at 4 am to count them by kicking on their mats. When G was finally able to fall back asleep, guards woke the girls up again to feed them. G cried when she told me she kept hoping her mother would show up to take her out of that horrible place, but that never happened.

G asked the guards if they knew where and how her mother was, but they told her they knew nothing about her. G overheard a girl asking to make a phone call to her family, but she was told they did not allow girls to make phone calls while detained.

During these three days, G had no idea where her mother was, or how long she would be detained in that place. On the third day, G was told that since her mother did not show up to pick her up, she was going to be taken to a home.
==============
A is 15 years old and originally from Guatemala. A said that a man attempted to rape her in her home country, but the Guatemalan police did nothing to find or arrest this person.

Her father decided to bring her to the United States. They arrived in Texas in mid-May, 2018.
Immigration officers at the border drove them both to an icebox, but they were separated once they arrived and placed into different cells. They never warned them they were going to be separated, so she did not get a chance to say goodbye to her father.

A was placed in a room with other 12 women and girls. Most of the girls who were there were 17 or 16 years old, but there was one girl about 6 years old who was there without her mother. A was detained at the icebox for three days. She did not like the food she was given. The guards were angry and yelling, which scared her and the other girls.

A told the officer that interviewed her that she was afraid to go back home because of the man that tried to rape her. The guard told her he did not believe her, that she was telling a bunch of lies. He also told A that her father was going to be sent to jail for a long time, which scared A and left her very worried. A had tears in her eyes and was visibly upset while recounting these events. A was then told her father had been deported so she was going to be taken to a home.
==============
H is 13 years old and originally from Guatemala. She came to the United States with her father around mid-May 2018. Immigration officers took them to a house where another father and three kids were detained. They spent the night at this house and the following morning the officers took her to another house, without her father. They did not let her say goodbye to her father or tell them in advance that they were separating them. H started crying while recounting these events and was unable to continue speaking for some time.

H reported that the guards threatened the people that they detained with separating them and sending them back home, she overheard them telling others they would be jailed for about 10 or 15 years, which scared her. The younger children were crying.

H arrived in Washington State on or about May 22, 2018. At the time of our interview, H had not spoken with her father since they were separated. She believes he continues to be detained in the US but she is not sure where he is. She was visibly worried about him and could not talk about her father without breaking in tears. H had a hard time talking during most of the interview, was visibly upset and broke down in tears frequently.
==============

[Phil1111 908]

ryoder

Earlier today on another forum, someone posted this w/o explanation.
Now I realize it is the subject of your story.

2100 years is a long time ago. But wasn't that family persecuted by Italians, or Romans, or something?

[billvon 2,380]

billvon

Now that Trump sent out the EO we have a few weeks to "get it right." I have no doubt the government will fail at that, but at least the urgency is reduced - for now.

Sadly I was right about that. They have failed again.
===================
Trump admin lost track of parents of 38 young migrant children

by Julia Ainsley / Jul.06.2018

WASHINGTON — Government lawyers said Friday that they cannot locate the parents of 38 migrant children under the age of 5, as a federal judge indicated he is open to extending the deadline for reuniting nearly 3,000 children separated from their mothers and fathers while crossing the US-Mexico border.

In a status hearing with U.S. District Judge Dana Sabraw of the Southern District of California, who ordered the reunification, government lawyers said the Health and Human Services Department would only be able to reunify about half of approximately 100 children under the age of 5 by the court-ordered deadline of July 10.
===================
Federal judge declines to ease deadlines for government to reunite separated families
By KRISTINA DAVIS
JUL 07, 2018
LAT

The court-imposed deadlines for the government to reunite families separated at the border will remain intact, although a federal judge acknowledged that they may need to be relaxed in some cases, including for the 19 parents who were deported without their toddler children.

More than a week into the massive effort to try to reconnect some 3,000 children with their parents, lawyers for the Department of Justice said Friday that it has dedicated “immense” resources to try to comply with the court’s June 26 order.

But the process that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has put into place to match up family members will take some time — perhaps longer than the deadline permits — if it is to comply with existing policies and procedures designed to protect children from human trafficking under law, the Justice Department argued.

The order gives the government until Tuesday to reunify children younger than 5 with their parents, and until July 26 for older children.

As many as 3,000 children remain separated from their parents, according to new estimates by HHS.
===================

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

... Is no different than the past three or four presidents. You're chasing a red herring trying to make a lie and a political statement. And everybody knows it!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,380]

rushmc

Quote

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

... Is no different than the past three or four presidents. You're chasing a red herring trying to make a lie and a political statement. And everybody knows it!

- Trump didn't do it
- OK maybe he did do it but it's not that bad
- Obama did it first
- Clinton did it first
- It's the Democrat's fault
- The Bible said to do it
- We're not really doing it; they are fake families
- We're not really doing it; they are 'hardened adults' not kids
- We're not really doing it; the kids are actors
- It's not so bad; those cages are 'essentially summer camps'
- It's not so bad; those cages are really just warehouse walls that happen to be chain link fence
- It's not so bad; those cages are like baseball diamonds, and kids like those

Can't wait to see what your spin is tomorrow.

[Rick 67]

billvon

Uh oh! Churches are getting politically incorrect! Some people are going to get VERY butthurt over this, I predict.
==================
A Church Is Protesting Family Separation By Putting The Holy Family In ICE Detention

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were homeless and fled danger to seek asylum," the church's dean said.

Posted on July 3, 2018

. . .

“When I read the stories of the Holy Family in scripture, they were in the middle of some pretty heated things," Dean Stephen Carlsen told RTV6. "They had to flee for asylum in Egypt. ... The powers of the day were threatening and indeed killing people in Jesus’s day. They were a homeless family with nowhere to stay. I think our faith tells us where we need to be.”

“The fact that it’s controversial isn’t because I want to be controversial,” the dean continued. “What’s controversial is that we are turning away from the values that should be guiding us. The point of a religious icon is to move our hearts, and if at first people are upset by it, that might just be God trying to move their heart. And I hope their hearts soften.”

In a statement provided to media, the dean said, "Holy Scripture is clear about how we are to treat people trying to find safety for their families—we are to show mercy and welcome them. ... We will not stand by while children are being taken from their parents, and families are being taken from our communities and congregations. People of good will and faith must not allow this to continue."
=================

When I was in Lutheran School several decades ago I was taught that Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for a census. Not for asylum. Also they were in a stable because there was no room in the inn. Not because they were homeless.
I really haven't kept up through the years so maybe the story has changed or I missed the sequel or something.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[kallend 1,621]

Rick

***Uh oh! Churches are getting politically incorrect! Some people are going to get VERY butthurt over this, I predict.
==================
A Church Is Protesting Family Separation By Putting The Holy Family In ICE Detention

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were homeless and fled danger to seek asylum," the church's dean said.

Posted on July 3, 2018

. . .

“When I read the stories of the Holy Family in scripture, they were in the middle of some pretty heated things," Dean Stephen Carlsen told RTV6. "They had to flee for asylum in Egypt. ... The powers of the day were threatening and indeed killing people in Jesus’s day. They were a homeless family with nowhere to stay. I think our faith tells us where we need to be.”

“The fact that it’s controversial isn’t because I want to be controversial,” the dean continued. “What’s controversial is that we are turning away from the values that should be guiding us. The point of a religious icon is to move our hearts, and if at first people are upset by it, that might just be God trying to move their heart. And I hope their hearts soften.”

In a statement provided to media, the dean said, "Holy Scripture is clear about how we are to treat people trying to find safety for their families—we are to show mercy and welcome them. ... We will not stand by while children are being taken from their parents, and families are being taken from our communities and congregations. People of good will and faith must not allow this to continue."
=================

When I was in Lutheran School several decades ago I was taught that Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for a census. Not for asylum. Also they were in a stable because there was no room in the inn. Not because they were homeless.
I really haven't kept up through the years so maybe the story has changed or I missed the sequel or something.

It's the sequel - J, M and J fled to Egypt AFTER the visit of the Magi to escape Herod's murdering of the newborn babies.

Matthew 2:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”

14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

Rick

***Uh oh! Churches are getting politically incorrect! Some people are going to get VERY butthurt over this, I predict.
==================
A Church Is Protesting Family Separation By Putting The Holy Family In ICE Detention

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were homeless and fled danger to seek asylum," the church's dean said.

Posted on July 3, 2018

. . .

“When I read the stories of the Holy Family in scripture, they were in the middle of some pretty heated things," Dean Stephen Carlsen told RTV6. "They had to flee for asylum in Egypt. ... The powers of the day were threatening and indeed killing people in Jesus’s day. They were a homeless family with nowhere to stay. I think our faith tells us where we need to be.”

“The fact that it’s controversial isn’t because I want to be controversial,” the dean continued. “What’s controversial is that we are turning away from the values that should be guiding us. The point of a religious icon is to move our hearts, and if at first people are upset by it, that might just be God trying to move their heart. And I hope their hearts soften.”

In a statement provided to media, the dean said, "Holy Scripture is clear about how we are to treat people trying to find safety for their families—we are to show mercy and welcome them. ... We will not stand by while children are being taken from their parents, and families are being taken from our communities and congregations. People of good will and faith must not allow this to continue."
=================

When I was in Lutheran School several decades ago I was taught that Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for a census. Not for asylum. Also they were in a stable because there was no room in the inn. Not because they were homeless.
I really haven't kept up through the years so maybe the story has changed or I missed the sequel or something.

Sounds like he's taking artistic liberty with the 2000 year old story about a woman who convinced her husband (fiance?) that she was magically impregnated.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Rick 67]

it's been a while since I read that book

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

Quote

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

... Is no different than the past three or four presidents.

Sure. But his policy on generating unaccompanied children to be detined is very different.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DJL 232]

kallend

******Uh oh! Churches are getting politically incorrect! Some people are going to get VERY butthurt over this, I predict.
==================
A Church Is Protesting Family Separation By Putting The Holy Family In ICE Detention

"Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were homeless and fled danger to seek asylum," the church's dean said.

Posted on July 3, 2018

. . .

“When I read the stories of the Holy Family in scripture, they were in the middle of some pretty heated things," Dean Stephen Carlsen told RTV6. "They had to flee for asylum in Egypt. ... The powers of the day were threatening and indeed killing people in Jesus’s day. They were a homeless family with nowhere to stay. I think our faith tells us where we need to be.”

“The fact that it’s controversial isn’t because I want to be controversial,” the dean continued. “What’s controversial is that we are turning away from the values that should be guiding us. The point of a religious icon is to move our hearts, and if at first people are upset by it, that might just be God trying to move their heart. And I hope their hearts soften.”

In a statement provided to media, the dean said, "Holy Scripture is clear about how we are to treat people trying to find safety for their families—we are to show mercy and welcome them. ... We will not stand by while children are being taken from their parents, and families are being taken from our communities and congregations. People of good will and faith must not allow this to continue."
=================

When I was in Lutheran School several decades ago I was taught that Joseph and Mary had to go to Bethlehem for a census. Not for asylum. Also they were in a stable because there was no room in the inn. Not because they were homeless.
I really haven't kept up through the years so maybe the story has changed or I missed the sequel or something.

It's the sequel - J, M and J fled to Egypt AFTER the visit of the Magi to escape Herod's murdering of the newborn babies.

Matthew 2:13-15 New King James Version (NKJV)

13 Now when they had departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, flee to Egypt, and stay there until I bring you word; for Herod will seek the young Child to destroy Him.”

14 When he arose, he took the young Child and His mother by night and departed for Egypt, 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”

Kallend, you are right that we should provide shelter for the Son of God. The remainder are likely terrorists.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[rushmc 18]

billvon

***

Quote

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

... Is no different than the past three or four presidents. You're chasing a red herring trying to make a lie and a political statement. And everybody knows it!

- Trump didn't do it
- OK maybe he did do it but it's not that bad
- Obama did it first
- Clinton did it first
- It's the Democrat's fault
- The Bible said to do it
- We're not really doing it; they are fake families
- We're not really doing it; they are 'hardened adults' not kids
- We're not really doing it; the kids are actors
- It's not so bad; those cages are 'essentially summer camps'
- It's not so bad; those cages are really just warehouse walls that happen to be chain link fence
- It's not so bad; those cages are like baseball diamonds, and kids like those

Can't wait to see what your spin is tomorrow.

you really hate it when the fake outrage of the left is so easily exposed don't you!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***

Quote

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

... Is no different than the past three or four presidents.

Sure. But his policy on generating unaccompanied children to be detined is very different.

Wrong

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

Wrong

Arrogant

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

***Wrong

Arrogant

That only works when you're correct.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,121]

rushmc

******Wrong

Arrogant

That only works when you're correct.

At least you have figured out why it never works for you.

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

******Wrong

Arrogant
That only works when you're correct.
Think how bad you must look.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rushmc 18]

jakee

*********Wrong

Arrogant
That only works when you're correct.
Think how bad you must look.



Oh God coming from you that's so damn funny!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[jakee 1,254]

I would say the same... but finding something to laugh about while lying through your teeth to defend a new policy of deliberately and permanently breaking up immigrant families isn't funny

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jclalor 12]

jakee

I would say the same... but finding something to laugh about while lying through your teeth to defend a new policy of deliberately and permanently breaking up immigrant families isn't funny

Relax... They’re only brown families.

[wmw999 2,116]

Nah, they’re only placeholder-people. They’re assets to be treated as such, just like employees in some corporations. Their individual wants and needs are irrelevant, just as the individual wants and needs of employees are irrelevant.

It’s a viewpoint that comes from an unwillingness to take the time or effort to consider humans as individuals. Generally it happens to those with less power. It’s why some criminal on TV now represents every black or brown person, and why the guy who refused to rent his airbnb to a Black family represents white people.

It’s fucking lazy. Not efficient, lazy.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[billvon 2,380]

The family-splitters suffer another blow as a judge requires all broken families to be reunited; if they don't, the Trump administration will be held liable for violating court orders. They have until midnight.

Let's see if they are any good at fixing what they broke.

====================
Judge refuses to extend deadline for Trump administration to reunite migrant families, threatens punishment

San Diego Union-Tribune
July 10 2018

A federal judge in California threatened to punish the Trump administration Tuesday after it acknowledged it would likely miss a court-ordered deadline to reunite over 100 children with their migrant parents.

San Diego Judge Dana Sabraw initially gave the government a July 10 deadline to reunite the 102 children under the age of 5 who were ripped from their undocumented parents because of the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” policy.

Sabraw hinted Monday he might give the administration an extension on that deadline after Justice Department lawyer Sarah Fabian said she only expected about half of the kids to be reunited with their parents. But, in a court filing Tuesday, Fabian revealed a mere four of the 102 children under 5 had been reunified with their loved ones, adding she only expected another 34 to be reunited by the end of the day.

Sabraw said that’s too little too late.

“These are firm deadlines,” Sabraw said. “They’re not aspirational goals.”

The judge affirmed he would not push back the deadline after all and asked the American Civil Liberties Union to prepare a proposal for possible sanctions or fines against the administration, should it not be able to reunite the 102 children with their parents by the end of Tuesday.

If Fabian’s assessment was accurate, 38 kids would be reunited with their parents as of Tuesday — which amounts to just above one-third of the total number of children separated.

The Trump administration claimed in the Tuesday filing it had been unable to reunite a majority of the children because some of their parents are not “class members,” meaning they are either not able to locate them, have a criminal record, are being treated for an illness or pose a “danger” to their loved ones.

Fabian maintained in the court papers the government is in “compliance with the Court’s order,” even though it blew Sabraw’s initial deadline and didn’t live up to its subsequent promises.

The American Civil Liberties Union — which successfully argued last month the Trump administration must reunite the separated migrant families — called bull.

“Plaintiffs recognize that Defendants cannot yet reunify the parents who are currently being held in criminal custody,” ACLU lawyer Lee Gelernt wrote in a response filing. “But as to all other Class Members with children under five, the government is not in compliance with the clear deadline ordered by the Court.”

About 3,000 children were torn from their migrant parents at the country’s southern border after Attorney General Jeff Sessions declared zero tolerance in April, according to the Department of Health and Human Services.

All separated children older than 5 have to be reunited with their parents by July 26, according to Sabraw’s initial ruling.

Amid international outrage, Trump backpedaled on his own administration’s family-shattering practice last month and signed an executive order effectively permitting children to remain with their undocumented parents while in custody.

Trump was blunt when asked by reporters Tuesday what his proposed solution is to the migration crisis unfolding at the southern border.

“Well, I have a solution: tell people not to come to our country illegally,” the President said. “Don’t come to our country illegally. Come like other people do; come legally.”

Thousands of the migrants entering the country illegally are fleeing violence in their Central American home countries. Many are trying to legally apply for asylum at ports of entry, but numerous of those asylum seekers have been turned away by federal authorities, according to reports.
===========================

[Phil1111 908]

Here is a cartoon from 1939 when the US shunned Jewish child refugees. Which subsequently allowed Germany to send them to concentration camps.

1939: John Knott Skewers Congress’ Unwillingness to Pass the Child Refugee Bill
Political cartoonist John Knott had little sympathy for the U.S. Congress’ indecision when it came to the Wagner-Rogers Child Refugee Bill, a piece of 1939 legislation that would have opened slots for 20,000 German refugee children to enter the United States. The bill was opposed by anti-immigrant organizations and never became a law. Tens of thousands of German Jewish children went on to die in concentration camps.

The title of the cartoon was "Please ring the bell for us".

[gowlerk 1,903]

Phil1111

Here is a cartoon from 1939 when the US shunned Jewish child refugees. Which subsequently allowed Germany to send them to concentration camps.

1939: John Knott Skewers Congress’ Unwillingness to Pass the Child Refugee Bill
Political cartoonist John Knott had little sympathy for the U.S. Congress’ indecision when it came to the Wagner-Rogers Child Refugee Bill, a piece of 1939 legislation that would have opened slots for 20,000 German refugee children to enter the United States. The bill was opposed by anti-immigrant organizations and never became a law. Tens of thousands of German Jewish children went on to die in concentration camps.

The title of the cartoon was "Please ring the bell for us".

I would just point out that antisemitism was just as strong in Canada and that Canada's record of accepting Jewish refugees is just as shameful. As was the case for most of the western world. There is a good reason why Israel does not really trust the west. Or anyone for that matter.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.