0
billvon

Trump's policy on 'detaining' children

Recommended Posts

“....... Rush Limbaugh explained ....... yesterday ..... these are people attempting to get into the country illegally. ..... ”
—————————————————————————————
It is against the law to be poor in most jurisdictions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
> All you do is cheer him on.

There are a lot of Trump supporters who have their entire ego invested in Trump. They can't do anything _else_ but cheer him on without experiencing a collapse of their philosophy, and the associated pain of losing the basis of their belief system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rushmc

You are really talking about the Obama that stated that manufacturing not being in the u.s. is the new normal? That Rising wages won't happen anymore because that's the new normal?

Lol

Got to got to thank you! I have a metal laughed that hard in 5 years



This chart shows there has been a decline in wage growth in the last 20 years. it also shows that wage growth is trending down since Trump's inauguration.

https://www.frbatlanta.org/chcs/wage-growth-tracker.aspx?panel=1

This page shows that manufacturing jobs have been slowly increasing in the US since the dramatic fall in 2008.

It shows that manufacturing jobs are down long term, currently at a level equal to 1945. Manufacturing jobs started growing under Obama and that trend continued under Trump.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MANEMP

Neither trend really shows any drastic changes since Trump started. I think what we are seeing is a complete disconnect between what Breitbart is feeding you and reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I don't think I'd put too much faith in stated reasons for migrating to the US. Economic migration doesn't have a high priority for a lot of decision makers, so now it's "gang violence."
Is there really any way to know?


Well, you can ask them, or poll people who have been accepted into the US as refugees or green card holders. But you only listed two reasons above; there are dozens, and different reasons apply to different groups of people.

Some "push" reasons -

Escaping violence is a big one. We've seen an upswing in refugees from Guatemala/Honduras/El Salvador (especially families) recently due to the high crime rates there. Almost 10% of the population of those three countries has fled the fighting.

Escaping religious or ethnic persecution is another. The US is widely known for its acceptance of other races and religions (for the most part) so it's a natural destination for people who fear for their safety due to their religion or race.

Environmental factors. Polluted air and water, drought, crop failure due to pollution, soil depletion or plague, flooding, fires, climate change, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis etc can all drive people out of their home country to escape the danger to them (or the famines/disease that those can cause.)

Some "pull" reasons -

Economic opportunity. Even jobs that Americans don't want (harvesting) often represent better economic opportunities than people have in their home countries. This is directly proportional to the relative health of the economy between the two countries; we see more illegal immigration from Mexico when the Mexican economy is doing poorly and the US economy is doing well and vice versa.

Joining family. Often immigrants try to get in to meet up with other family members living in the US. (That's why my grandmother came over.)

Educational/'next generation' opportunity. Many people want to move to the US so that they can get an education and/or ensure that their children get educations and more opportunities. I was interviewing a guy a few years back whose #1 reason he wanted to get a job in the US was to give his children a better life than they could find in China.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RonD1120

***One thing I want you to understand is, I don't agree with the policy either. My comments have been directly at the mischaracterization you started Bill. This has been going on long before Trump and it needs to be changed by Congress. Either follow the law or you don't.



Rush Limbaugh explained this Democratic strategy very clearly yesterday. The following is a quote of one on his salient points, that is the current law.

Quote

“That’s because of something called the Flores Consent Decree from 1997. It says that unaccompanied children can be held only 20 days. … So even if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so” by existing law if the migrant is claiming asylum. “[E]ven if we want to hold a family unit together, we are forbidden from doing so. The clock ticking on the time the government can hold a child [twenty days] will almost always run out before an asylum claim is settled…

“This creates the choice of either releasing the adults and children together into the country pending the ajudication [sic] of the asylum claim,” in which case we’re never going to see them again, “or holding the adults and releasing the children. If the adult is held, HHS places the child with a responsible party in the U.S., ideally a relative,” but if not, a sponsor. So, in other words, folks, the parents who decide at the border to ask for asylum in this fashion, rather than going in the front door. Remember, now, these are people attempting to get into the country illegally.

Never forget this.



"Just following the law" didn't go over too well at Nuremberg.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A new excuse - they're not imprisoning kids, they are sending them to summer camp. Laura Ingraham, FOX anchor, claimed that the cages they were kept in were “essentially summer camps.”

You have to wonder what kinds of summer camps she sends _her_ kids to . . . .

So the excuse list gets one more addition:


- Trump didn't do it
- OK maybe he did do it but it's not that bad
- Obama did it first
- Clinton did it first
- It's the Democrat's fault
- The Bible said to do it
- We're not really doing it; they are fake families
- We're not really doing it; they are 'hardened adults' not kids
- We're not really doing it; the kids are actors
- It's not so bad; those cages are 'essentially summer camps'
- It's not so bad; those cages are really just warehouse walls that happen to be chain link fence

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jcd11235

***What's not lost on Trump supporters is the understanding that you and yours are making up a disaster so that the numbers of the economy and everything else aren't being talked about.



Are you referring to the excellent economic trends we've been experiencing since long before Obama left office? Not surprised you'd try to credit those to Trump. After all, you blamed Obama for the economic mess Bush left for him.

And in actuality over these last couple of days the Dow has dropped and several countries have announced that they will respond in kind to any tariff.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SkyDekker

The GOP is using kids in cages as bargaining chips. Trump's administration is using kids in cages to try and get more funding for the wall Mexico was supposed to pay for. All you do is cheer him on.



They're not the only ones using kids.

http://www.newsweek.com/caged-child-immigration-child-detention-center-trump-protest-viral-photo-983992

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob_Church

***The GOP is using kids in cages as bargaining chips. Trump's administration is using kids in cages to try and get more funding for the wall Mexico was supposed to pay for. All you do is cheer him on.



They're not the only ones using kids.

http://www.newsweek.com/caged-child-immigration-child-detention-center-trump-protest-viral-photo-983992

Trump's admin and the GOP are the only ones with the power to do something. I think people a higher burden belongs to those with the ability to affect change, specially if they are the ones changing policy exasperating the situation.

So no, it is not the same. Comments like that trivialize the situation. Take some fucking responsibility. You live in a society where leadership has decided to force kids into cages to try and win a political battle.

The best you can do is, but Obama? Sickening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob_Church

***The GOP is using kids in cages as bargaining chips. Trump's administration is using kids in cages to try and get more funding for the wall Mexico was supposed to pay for. All you do is cheer him on.



They're not the only ones using kids.

http://www.newsweek.com/caged-child-immigration-child-detention-center-trump-protest-viral-photo-983992

Yup, I had a bunch of friends on Facebook posting that one and gave them grief over children being used as political props. Utter bullshit. Keep the kids out of it. From another picture you can see it's mostly late teens in there and that it's only a three sided "room" but it definitely muddies the water.

Edit, from the child's parent: “He got confused on how to get out [of the cage] and cried when he saw his mother," Pena told CNN. "He was only in there about 30 seconds."

Pena said he was frustrated the photo was taken out of context, but he was glad that it helped start a discussion on what many immigrant children are facing now.

Double Edit: I told one of my friends that this was a really dumb move because we should expect to see this picture picked up by people trying to detract from the protester message. Seems like I was right about that. I know you're just pointing out the same thing I am but I expect this to lead on Hannity at some point.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yup, I had a bunch of friends on Facebook posting that one and gave them grief over children being used as political props. Utter bullshit. Keep the kids out of it. From another picture you can see it's mostly late teens in there and that it's only a three sided "room" but it definitely muddies the water.

I hate it whenever they use kids like that. The worst, to me, is for abortion protests. But whatever the cause, for or against, it's lowlife crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jcd11235

***This has been going on long before Trump and it needs to be changed by Congress.



No, it hasn't. Find a credible news source.

Well, Mother Jones news just had an article out that said they were more kids in detention in 2014 and there are today! Over 12,000. You also have to realize that of the kids that are in detention today only two thousand of them, of the approximate 10,000 are from illegal border crossings.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billvon

> All you do is cheer him on.

There are a lot of Trump supporters who have their entire ego invested in Trump. They can't do anything _else_ but cheer him on without experiencing a collapse of their philosophy, and the associated pain of losing the basis of their belief system.



Now you're just projecting Bill! You guys had all your ego and eggs in one basket being Hillary Clinton. When she lost, because she was a way worse candidate than Trump just to be clear, you guys went ape shitt freaking crazy and still are!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rushmc

******This has been going on long before Trump and it needs to be changed by Congress.



No, it hasn't. Find a credible news source.

Well, Mother Jones news just had an article out that said they were more kids in detention in 2014 and there are today! Over 12,000. You also have to realize that of the kids that are in detention today only two thousand of them, of the approximate 10,000 are from illegal border crossings.

12,000 with a parent, or by themselves? How many in 2014 arrived with their parents, or a parent and then separated?

Details matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

12,000 with a parent, or by themselves? How many in 2014 arrived with their parents, or a parent and then separated?


That's the issue. Kids who show up alone are always detained if there's no parent or guardian there to take them. That's been going on for years. It's now a legal requirement, put in place to keep them out of slavery (which has happened in the past.)

What's new is the policy of forcibly separating children from parents when they arrive at the border.

Of course that doesn't follow the FOX News talking points, so you won't see RushMC be able to process it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Other FOX people bailing from the company due to their lies and propaganda:

Steve Levitan: "I have no problem with fact-based conservatism (such as WSJ), but @FoxNew’s 23-hour-a-day support of the NRA, conspiracy theories and Trump’s lies gets harder to swallow every day as I drive onto that lot to make a show about inclusion. I look forward to seeing #ModernFamily through to the end and then, sale or no sale, setting up shop elsewhere."

Paul Feig: "I have made two films for 20th Century Fox and love the people in the movie and TV divisions. But I too cannot condone the support their news division promotes toward the immoral and abusive policies and actions taken by this current administration toward immigrant children.
Let me officially join @SethMacFarlane in saying I’m disgusted to work at a company that has anything whatsoever to do with @FoxNews. This bullshit is the opposite of what #ModernFamily stands for."

Seth MacFarlane: "In other words, don’t think critically, don’t consult multiple news sources, and in general, don’t use your brain. Just blindly obey Fox News. This is fringe shit, and it’s business like this that makes me embarrassed to work for this company."

Judd Apatow: "Where are the Fox stars and executives speaking up?! Imagine if it was your kids. Who has a movie, TV show, sporting event, news show at Fox? How can you remain silent when they promote these policies? . . .We need as many people as possible to speak out against destroying families and how Fox News supports these policies. They are a propaganda arm of this evil administration and since they are a business we should let them know how we feel about that."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

"Just following the law" didn't go over too well at Nuremberg.



So; the Flores Consent Decree from 1997 (during Clinton's term) and related applicable immigration law passed by US Congress during whichever years,
are regarded by you as equivalent to the executive orders of a Nazi dictator during the 1940's ?
...and consequently implying that government officials have the option to thumb their nose at such laws in much the same way as German officers should have ?

Seriously ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
metalslug

Quote

"Just following the law" didn't go over too well at Nuremberg.



So; the Flores Consent Decree from 1997 (during Clinton's term) and related applicable immigration law passed by US Congress during whichever years,
are regarded by you as equivalent to the executive orders of a Nazi dictator during the 1940's ?
...and consequently implying that government officials have the option to thumb their nose at such laws in much the same way as German officers should have ?

Seriously ?



They have the option of not separating the children from their parents as the default, non-negotiable, zero-tolerance policy.

Flores actually says least intrusive to child. It is to protect the children and aim for least intrusive options. Hiding behind it as the reason all parents have to be criminally charged and therefor have the children taken away from them is unconscionable.

Specially because the decision has been made specifically to make it painful for the parents, through the children, to:

1. supposedly deter.
2. Gain a better bargaining position.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Now today Schumer stated that he would not support any new proposed law to rectify the situation that you guys all got your panties in a wad over! Stating that he thinks it will take too long and that truck should use his pain! So much for following the fucking law huh Bill?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're losing your cool a little more than usual this evening Marc. Is the pressure getting to you? I think it might be getting to Trump on this one. His lies are fooling almost no one this time. Most of the Rs are turning hard against this policy. I think he went too far this time. Will you be backing down when Donnie does?
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0