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Bob_Church

Right message wrong audience

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Bob_Church

***The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops - often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I would assume you agree with that approach.


I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up. Over and over I read reports of someone doing something that I know, absolutely, would get me killed. The difference is that if I did it all of my friends and loved ones would say "what was Bob thinking? You can't do that!"

Reality supports Bill's statement, as anyone who has been paying attention to credible news sources knows. Your repeated denial of that reality speaks volumes about you.
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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jcd11235

******The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops - often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I would assume you agree with that approach.


I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up. Over and over I read reports of someone doing something that I know, absolutely, would get me killed. The difference is that if I did it all of my friends and loved ones would say "what was Bob thinking? You can't do that!"

Reality supports Bill's statement, as anyone who has been paying attention to credible news sources knows. Your repeated denial of that reality speaks volumes about you.

A cocked, locked 1911 on the hip is how Bob, Marc, Ron and other trump cultists. Deal with the inherent propensity. The DNA. In Black people who can't help their violent impulses. trump understands this as well.

Don't blame the "uppity" Black folks who are trying to change a dynamic. That they themselves can't change. Because its in their nature, their culture. Like a love of fried chicken, they love violence.

You and i could understand this. But "socialism" precludes this. Colors our view of reality. If you'll pardon the pun.

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>>The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops -
>>often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I
>>would assume you agree with that approach.

>I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up.

So blacks are dying at the hands of cops in other ways than being shot by cops? I disagree. Outside of very rare exceptions (i.e. the guy who had his neck broken in the back of the transport) they are getting killed by being shot.

If you have any proof to the contrary please present it.

>What's that, but he already asked for your id? So what . . . .

So your advice to blacks is "disobey cops and they won't shoot you."

That works very well for the anti-BLM folks. That way when the next black gets shot, they can say "hey, he disobeyed the cops! Of course he got shot. Duh. If you want to live, don't disobey the cops."

How about this - don't shoot the guy until there is a clear threat to your life or the lives of others.

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billvon

>>The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops -
>>often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I
>>would assume you agree with that approach.

>I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up.

So blacks are dying at the hands of cops in other ways than being shot by cops? I disagree. Outside of very rare exceptions (i.e. the guy who had his neck broken in the back of the transport) they are getting killed by being shot.

If you have any proof to the contrary please present it.

>What's that, but he already asked for your id? So what . . . .

So your advice to blacks is "disobey cops and they won't shoot you."

That works very well for the anti-BLM folks. That way when the next black gets shot, they can say "hey, he disobeyed the cops! Of course he got shot. Duh. If you want to live, don't disobey the cops."

How about this - don't shoot the guy until there is a clear threat to your life or the lives of others.



cough medicine?

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Bob_Church

For instance, there is a standard procedure for being pulled over while legally carrying a concealed weapon. First off, hands on the top of the steering wheel. And they stay there until you've told the cop that you are carrying. What's that, but he already asked for your id? So what, he didn't know you were carrying then. And if you've got an IQ at least as big as your belt size you know that. You keep your hands on the top of the wheel until the cop knows the you have a gun then you follow their instructions. Exactly If you did screw up and start digging for ID, and that is a serious screw up, you instantly put your hands back on the wheel. You do not tell a cop that you have a gun then keep digging around. Why? Because this WILL get you killed and I don't care what your race, gender, social status or anything else is. And at this point neither does the cop, you've put a cop who has a gun aimed at you into a position where that person has no way of knowing what you will pull out until it's too late. And nothing will change that. What's that you say, racism is a real problem? Cops unfairly assume the worst? If you believe that then isn't that just another reason to act like you're not a brain dead cop hating criminal with a gun so PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL. It's not rocket science. When I get pulled over I put my hands on the steering wheel until I'm told to do something else then do that. That's because I don't want to die and I don't want everyone I know wondering why I acted so stupid. Carrying a couple concealed weapon may be legal but that doesn't make it anywhere near trivial. Personally I suspect that far more people will get themselves killed with concealed carry than save themselves.



Of course if you have spent the previous 15 years being harassed by cops for really no other reason than being black, one might be nervous, worried, stressed, anxious when pulled over again.

Guess what happens to people when they are stressed, worried, nervous and anxious? That's right genius, they act differently than they normally would.

Your comments really show that you have not a single clue about what goes on.

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Phil1111

*********The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops - often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I would assume you agree with that approach.


I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up. Over and over I read reports of someone doing something that I know, absolutely, would get me killed. The difference is that if I did it all of my friends and loved ones would say "what was Bob thinking? You can't do that!"

Reality supports Bill's statement, as anyone who has been paying attention to credible news sources knows. Your repeated denial of that reality speaks volumes about you.

A cocked, locked 1911 on the hip is how Bob, Marc, Ron and other trump cultists. Deal with the inherent propensity. The DNA. In Black people who can't help their violent impulses. trump understands this as well.

Don't blame the "uppity" Black folks who are trying to change a dynamic. That they themselves can't change. Because its in their nature, their culture. Like a love of fried chicken, they love violence.

You and i could understand this. But "socialism" precludes this. Colors our view of reality. If you'll pardon the pun.

You forgot to call us "Nazis."

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Bob_Church

************The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops - often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I would assume you agree with that approach.


I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up. Over and over I read reports of someone doing something that I know, absolutely, would get me killed. The difference is that if I did it all of my friends and loved ones would say "what was Bob thinking? You can't do that!"

Reality supports Bill's statement, as anyone who has been paying attention to credible news sources knows. Your repeated denial of that reality speaks volumes about you.

A cocked, locked 1911 on the hip is how Bob, Marc, Ron and other trump cultists. Deal with the inherent propensity. The DNA. In Black people who can't help their violent impulses. trump understands this as well.

Don't blame the "uppity" Black folks who are trying to change a dynamic. That they themselves can't change. Because its in their nature, their culture. Like a love of fried chicken, they love violence.

You and i could understand this. But "socialism" precludes this. Colors our view of reality. If you'll pardon the pun.

You forgot to call us "Nazis."

Thats a little unfair!


RonD1120 wrote:
I remember discussing the terrorism in South Africa with an Afrikaner. It was in the mid-80s and we shared an office building in the Tampa Bay area. The focus of our discussion was the Communist support for the rebels. He wrote that off as insignificant because "blacks kill blacks, it is part of their culture."

and you responded.

I think it's culture not race, at least in the US.

Fascist support hasn't entered this discussion.

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Phil1111

***************The real cause of blacks dying at the hands of cops is blacks being shot by cops - often for no reason other than they are black. That's what BLM is trying to stop. I would assume you agree with that approach.


I don't believe in your statement and the reality doesn't back them up. Over and over I read reports of someone doing something that I know, absolutely, would get me killed. The difference is that if I did it all of my friends and loved ones would say "what was Bob thinking? You can't do that!"

Reality supports Bill's statement, as anyone who has been paying attention to credible news sources knows. Your repeated denial of that reality speaks volumes about you.

A cocked, locked 1911 on the hip is how Bob, Marc, Ron and other trump cultists. Deal with the inherent propensity. The DNA. In Black people who can't help their violent impulses. trump understands this as well.

Don't blame the "uppity" Black folks who are trying to change a dynamic. That they themselves can't change. Because its in their nature, their culture. Like a love of fried chicken, they love violence.

You and i could understand this. But "socialism" precludes this. Colors our view of reality. If you'll pardon the pun.

You forgot to call us "Nazis."

Thats a little unfair!


RonD1120 wrote:
I remember discussing the terrorism in South Africa with an Afrikaner. It was in the mid-80s and we shared an office building in the Tampa Bay area. The focus of our discussion was the Communist support for the rebels. He wrote that off as insignificant because "blacks kill blacks, it is part of their culture."

and you responded.

I think it's culture not race, at least in the US.

Fascist support hasn't entered this discussion.

Wait a minute, you're saying there was some actual thought out logic to that post and not just a spittle flecked "you're with us or against us so anything is fair" rant? You put those words together and considered them lucid?
I feel like I'm sitting at the wrong table in a third grade cafeteria.

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I would absolutely not include Bob in the "trump cultist" group. He's to the right of lots, but he questions what is fed, and just come to different conclusions.

To me the difference is whether one questions the party line, verifies things that look funny. It's just as possible to be a lefty cultist as a trump (or righty) cultist. And it's very possible to be conservative and questioning.

Yeah, I disagree with Bob on stuff. But he listens and considers, and when you back him into a corner (like lots of other people), he gets his back up and doubles down. And then thinks about it later (which plenty of folks don't do).

And, um, Bob -- Black Lives Matter is about black people saying that others don't get to determine the worth of their lives for them, any more than they should for anyone else. Most police officers don't think "that could be me in that car" about a black guy, because they don't know any. So they react differently. I had a friend who was a police officer in central Houston. The vast majority of people he interacted with were, in fact, guilty -- and he said it was hard to remind himself that they were innocent until proven guilty, and just as likely to have a "you idiot" explanation, instead of a "you criminal" explanation, as the white guy he might have been drinking beer with.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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"And, um, Bob -- Black Lives Matter is about black people saying that others don't get to determine the worth of their lives for them, any more than they should for anyone else. Most police officers don't think "that could be me in that car" about a black guy, because they don't know any. So they react differently. I had a friend who was a police officer in central Houston. The vast majority of people he interacted with were, in fact, guilty -- and he said it was hard to remind himself that they were innocent until proven guilty, and just as likely to have a "you idiot" explanation, instead of a "you criminal" explanation, as the white guy he might have been drinking beer with.

Wendy P. "

But it's hard to see a culture (not a race, a group of people who are black, but not 'blacks') who write "cop killer"" music, kill each other at prodigious numbers and then expect a cop to just walk up to the car or the person on the street and not be edgier than usual. And when I read the details on the shootings it's rare to see a situation in which the shooting wasn't forced by the person who died. I read these descriptions of the events and know, no two ways about it, if I did the same thing I would be dead. Do you know that the BLM movement considers Michael Brown a martyr? Many members credit him with starting the organization. A large belligerent drunk who pushed around a shop owner then was trying to steal a cop's gun. He's their hero.
And in Cleveland a so-called mother watches her brother give her son, who is large for his age and wears a hoodie, an airsoft gun that has been illegally modified to look like the real thing then tells him to take it to the playground and have fun while she and his uncle stay home to do something more important. The only thing that keeps the gun from looking exactly like a real gun is a red tip on the barrel which her brother either removed or at least obviously knew. You can't miss it.
When the son inevitably dies is she arrested for child endangerment? Does childrens' services get involved?
No. Do you know what they did? They gave her six million dollars, a group hug and, and I'm not making any of this up or exaggerating, a place on the committee that's designing the statue to commemorate her outstanding Motherhood.
So BLM can say whatever they want. They can make any signs they want and people can cow tow to them but the fact is, and I do mean fact, that they are trying to defend the un-defendable. Look at each and every case they champion, look at the case itself, the same way the cop watching a person pulling a gun on them has to, and then see what you think. Yes there are the occasional bad shoots. But the idea of a cop not having to chose to either die, no two ways about it, or be pretty much burnt in effigy is insane. They had a march in Columbus and one sign said "if you don't want shot then don't be a cop." Nobody even mentioned it, it was in the photos but nobody said a thing or even blinked. When black students painted "kill all cops" on the local graffiti wall then bragged about it it was defended.
In 2016, despite being only 13% of the population over 7,000 blacks were killed by other blacks. Whites and hispanics killed just over 6000 of each other in the same time period.
How can we ignore that simply because BLM trots out some touching rhetoric?
No, I don't think they act the way the do because they're black. I know for a fact that most black people don't act like that. It's not something in their genetic makeup. It's the conditions they're forced to live in in this country but instead of going after the politicians who create then refuse to fix those conditions they go after cops who know that if young black men are this eager to kill each other they aren't going to hesitate to kill a cop.
If you can just step back and look at the reality of it, the case by case situations and what causes them, ignore the rhetoric for one afternoon, I think you'll see a very different picture. It's not about race, no matter how much BLM and their white supporters like to think. It's about logical reactions to a situation that the police didn't create.

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SkyDekker

***For instance, there is a standard procedure for being pulled over while legally carrying a concealed weapon. First off, hands on the top of the steering wheel. And they stay there until you've told the cop that you are carrying. What's that, but he already asked for your id? So what, he didn't know you were carrying then. And if you've got an IQ at least as big as your belt size you know that. You keep your hands on the top of the wheel until the cop knows the you have a gun then you follow their instructions. Exactly If you did screw up and start digging for ID, and that is a serious screw up, you instantly put your hands back on the wheel. You do not tell a cop that you have a gun then keep digging around. Why? Because this WILL get you killed and I don't care what your race, gender, social status or anything else is. And at this point neither does the cop, you've put a cop who has a gun aimed at you into a position where that person has no way of knowing what you will pull out until it's too late. And nothing will change that. What's that you say, racism is a real problem? Cops unfairly assume the worst? If you believe that then isn't that just another reason to act like you're not a brain dead cop hating criminal with a gun so PUT YOUR HANDS ON THE WHEEL. It's not rocket science. When I get pulled over I put my hands on the steering wheel until I'm told to do something else then do that. That's because I don't want to die and I don't want everyone I know wondering why I acted so stupid. Carrying a couple concealed weapon may be legal but that doesn't make it anywhere near trivial. Personally I suspect that far more people will get themselves killed with concealed carry than save themselves.



Of course if you have spent the previous 15 years being harassed by cops for really no other reason than being black, one might be nervous, worried, stressed, anxious when pulled over again.

Guess what happens to people when they are stressed, worried, nervous and anxious? That's right genius, they act differently than they normally would.

Your comments really show that you have not a single clue about what goes on.

What are you even talking about. Do you know that this is a real life jincident? You talk about a man's death like it's a plot hole in a movie. A man's behavior got him killed and you're going off on him being nervous. Is that supposed to make us feel better, will it make his girlfriend or child feel better. You insist on treating this like a card game and arguing over points when a life hung in the balance. And was lost.

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Bob_Church

***BLM is primarily about cops killing black people.

It is not about white people killing black people. At all.

Say it with me, Black Lives Matter isn't about white vs black.

People like you really, really want it to be so you can ignore it. But it isn't. Sorry.



Ok, sure. We continue our strategy of saving black lives by blaming it on something less uncomfortable than the real cause of their deaths. After all, that's been working so well so far, hasn't it?

You're new here. You didn't realize that conversations about race aren't allowed in the new SC and any attempt to do so will be met with rampant attacks on the OP as a racist.
Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

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Bob_Church

And in Cleveland a so-called mother watches her brother give her son, who is large for his age and wears a hoodie, an airsoft gun that has been illegally modified to look like the real thing then tells him to take it to the playground and have fun while she and his uncle stay home to do something more important. The only thing that keeps the gun from looking exactly like a real gun is a red tip on the barrel which her brother either removed or at least obviously knew. You can't miss it.
When the son inevitably dies is she arrested for child endangerment? Does childrens' services get involved?
No. Do you know what they did? They gave her six million dollars, a group hug and, and I'm not making any of this up or exaggerating, a place on the committee that's designing the statue to commemorate her outstanding Motherhood.


Prove it. Where is the committee and the statue?

Quote

So BLM can say whatever they want. They can make any signs they want and people can cow tow to them but the fact is, and I do mean fact, that they are trying to defend the un-defendable. Look at each and every case they champion, look at the case itself, the same way the cop watching a person pulling a gun on them has to, and then see what you think.


What do you think about the one you just referenced? What do you think about the fact that the 911 caller told the police that the gun was probably fake and the suspect a juvenile, but that info was not passed to the patrol car? What do you think about the fact that the rookie cop who shot the child had been fired from training with a neighbouring division because he was emotionally unfit to be a police officer, specifically citing his inability to follow procedures and his dangerous loss of composure during weapons handling? What do you think about the fact that the kid was shot 2 seconds after the cops showed up, and that both officers then lied about having shouted multiple warnings before opening fire?

Given the above, do you think there are no lessons to be learned by the Cleveland police from how this incident came about?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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What are you even talking about. Do you know that this is a real life jincident? You talk about a man's death like it's a plot hole in a movie. A man's behavior got him killed and you're going off on him being nervous. Is that supposed to make us feel better, will it make his girlfriend or child feel better.


Something tells me that if you were talking to his child or his girlfriend you would not be mentioning the victim-blaming, third-grade table, cough medicine crap you are posting here.

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billvon

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What are you even talking about. Do you know that this is a real life jincident? You talk about a man's death like it's a plot hole in a movie. A man's behavior got him killed and you're going off on him being nervous. Is that supposed to make us feel better, will it make his girlfriend or child feel better.


Something tells me that if you were talking to his child or his girlfriend you would not be mentioning the victim-blaming, third-grade table, cough medicine crap you are posting here.



You're very confused. I posted those things to describe you, not this poor guy or his family.

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billvon

>You're very confused. I posted those things to describe you, not this poor guy or
>his family.

Ah. In that case, your faux outrage over what Skydekker posted to describe your position is duly noted.



There is no outrage, faux or otherwise. Just confusion on my part. If I say that doing a certain thing will get you killed regardless of your race I might expect someone to disagree with me about the race thing, or even that thing getting you killed. But what value does the reason the person did it have? He was nervous. Ok. But he's still dead. It's not a movie with a possible remake, he's gone and no amount of rationalization of how he acted is going to change that. If you do certain things while a nervous cop has a gun pointed at you the cop won't ask you if you've had a rough life, he'll pull the trigger.
Personally I think that if I did the same thing under the same conditions I'd be dead. But I also think the discussion in that case would have been "well, that's what happens when you carry a gun. What did he expect?"

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airdvr

******BLM is primarily about cops killing black people.

It is not about white people killing black people. At all.

Say it with me, Black Lives Matter isn't about white vs black.

People like you really, really want it to be so you can ignore it. But it isn't. Sorry.



Ok, sure. We continue our strategy of saving black lives by blaming it on something less uncomfortable than the real cause of their deaths. After all, that's been working so well so far, hasn't it?

You're new here. You didn't realize that conversations about race aren't allowed in the new SC and any attempt to do so will be met with rampant attacks on the OP as a racist.

You're not kidding. It's just that growing up poor white trash in a family that had to move every few months taught me that not every injustice is about being Black.

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There is no outrage, faux or otherwise. Just confusion on my part. If I say that doing a certain thing will get you killed regardless of your race I might expect someone to disagree with me about the race thing, or even that thing getting you killed. But what value does the reason the person did it have?



I think that clearly shows you have zero understanding of the dynamics at play. If you think every thing can be distilled down to one single event, without taking history into account you are a fool.

You are further being disingenuous by now claiming this is a single event and nothing else should matter or be involved. yet you had no problem taking this one single event and use it as a "punchline" against a movement.

I have a hard time believing that is just innocent misunderstanding and you don't know better. You are exhibiting the typical arguments and nonsense that a racist brings to the table.

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>There is no outrage, faux or otherwise.

"Do you know that this is a real life jincident? You talk about a man's death like it's a plot hole in a movie. A man's behavior got him killed and you're going off on him being nervous. Is that supposed to make us feel better, will it make his girlfriend or child feel better. You insist on treating this like a card game and arguing over points when a life hung in the balance."

>If you do certain things while a nervous cop has a gun pointed at you the cop won't ask
>you if you've had a rough life, he'll pull the trigger.

If that "certain thing" is obeying a cop's instructions, then that cop should at very least lose his job permanently - so this never happens again with this cop. Jail time would not be inappropriate.

You are claiming in your posts here that these incidents are caused entirely by the victims; that it's understandable that the cop blows away black people who follow their instructions (or who run away, or do other non-threatening things) because they are nervous. Not, you claim, because they are black, but because they are part of a dangerous culture that happens to be black - which is a distinction without meaning in this case. I disagree.

BLM activists generally claim that anytime a black person is killed by a cop, that it is solely the cop's fault - which is equally wrong. A great many shootings are entirely justified by the situation, and the cop is doing his job and doing it well. A great many other shootings occur under questionable circumstances, where you can make an argument either way. A child who is shot while pointing a toy gun at a cop, for example, is a tragedy - but it is possible (depending on circumstances) that the cop did not know that it was a child with a gun, and thus excusable. Provided, of course, that efforts are made (like retraining for the cop) to avoid such tragedies in the future.

But some are not questionable. Walter Scott, for example, was shot in the back by a cop while running away. The cop then lied about what happened to avoid scrutiny. And in that case I am with BLM 100%. That cop should be in jail - and now is.

And, to your OP, that DEFINITELY sends the right message.

Do blacks shoot other blacks? Yes, and that's sad. That doesn't change the fact that the Walter Scott shooting was wrong, and you can't dismiss it for that reason. Does heart disease kill even more blacks than shootings? Again, yes - and again, that doesn't mean you can dismiss or minimize the wrong of that incident on that basis. "Well, if you care about blacks you'd stop them shooting each other, or get them on a better diet!" doesn't fly.

>Personally I think that if I did the same thing under the same conditions I'd be dead.

Personally I think you would not be, because you are white - so you'd get the benefit of the doubt. To be specific, you are 2.5 times less likely to be shot by a cop than a black person.

>But I also think the discussion in that case would have been "well, that's what
>happens when you carry a gun. What did he expect?"

Hopefully, in the sad event that that happened, there would be enough people with a BLM mindset to not dismiss your death so easily.

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airdvr

******BLM is primarily about cops killing black people.

It is not about white people killing black people. At all.

Say it with me, Black Lives Matter isn't about white vs black.

People like you really, really want it to be so you can ignore it. But it isn't. Sorry.



Ok, sure. We continue our strategy of saving black lives by blaming it on something less uncomfortable than the real cause of their deaths. After all, that's been working so well so far, hasn't it?

You're new here. You didn't realize that conversations about race aren't allowed in the new SC and any attempt to do so will be met with rampant attacks on the OP as a racist.

Is there ANYTHING that can be discussed here without following a script or being talked down to who really like to type?

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You're new here. You didn't realize that conversations about race aren't allowed in the new SC and any attempt to do so will be met with rampant attacks on the OP as a racist.



Most people are able to make a distinction between conversations about race and racist conversations.

Let's see if I can come up with an example you can grasp. It is the same difference between trying to discuss data surrounding gun ownership and stating the gun owners must have a small dick.

Or talking about the state of education in the US and stating that Americans are generally stupid.

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When I first found SC I couldn't believe that so few jumpers were using it. Now I'm not, and the comments I got when I tried to get people to come here from other sites make sense.
When you replace logic and debate with smug condescension and ugly labels it sucks all of the joy out of a place.
SC has become a Gated Community of trust fund babies.

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When you replace logic and debate with smug condescension and ugly labels it sucks all of the joy out of a place.
SC has become a Gated Community of trust fund babies.



I like how you put these two sentences right next to each other but will never allow yourself to see the irony.

- Dan G

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DanG

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When you replace logic and debate with smug condescension and ugly labels it sucks all of the joy out of a place.
SC has become a Gated Community of trust fund babies.



I like how you put these two sentences right next to each other but will never allow yourself to see the irony.



Wasn't that an episode of Kung fu?

"So, Master, you're saying that when someone finally speaks up and says "you're being an asshole" in that moment you become an asshole?"
"Yes, Grasshopper, exactly."
"So then, wise one, the best path is to just let the same old same old keep going until in the near future the last person to leave turns out the lights? "
"Yes Grasshopper, you are truly growing in wisdom."

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