NYT: "I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration"

[rushmc 18]

What is Trump doing that would constitute a proper reason to impeach him?

In your opinion.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JoeWeber 2,294]

rushmc

What is Trump doing that would constitute a proper reason to impeach him?

In your opinion.

Marc,

I'll answer you but in return you need to agree to answer our questions. In good faith, I'll trust your agreement in advance.

On September 3 he tweeted:

“Two long running, Obama era, investigations of two very popular Republican Congressmen were brought to a well publicized charge, just ahead of the Mid-Terms, by the Jeff Sessions Justice Department. Two easy wins now in doubt because there is not enough time. Good job Jeff…”

The President was clearly attempting to use the Justice Department for political gains and advising Justice officials to ignore allegations of corruption against Republicans to that end. The President has a constitutional obligation to carry out the laws of the nation. His tweet is evidence he does not accept that responsibility.

His own attorney acknowledged in court that Trump violated campaign finance laws by directing him to pay hush money to his mistresses and to have other damning allegations purchased by a third party and squashed. Those are conspiracies to commit criminal acts. That is also an impeachable offense.

There are more but for now let's stop here.

Please note that impeachment is not removal. It is stage 1. Credible allegations are investigated by the House and, if warranted, referred to the Senate for trial. As with Clinton, who was a douche in my mind, Trump may walk away and continue his Presidency. But I think all honest Patriotic Americans, especially those who support Trump and believe him innocent, should welcome such proceedings and get it over one way or another.

Your turn.

Joe

[kallend 1,621]

JerryBaumchen

Hi Bill,

Quote

And don't forget the shitstorm that ensued when Obama wore a tan suit.

But he was just following protocal; see attached photo.

Jerry Baumchen

Reagan doesn't count because he was a Republican (although today's GOP would probably expel him for being too left-wing).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 908]

RonD1120

This is all just water of Ron's back. As it is for Marc. Both could answer any bit of criticism of trump with one word.

Kavanaugh

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

I'm a little curious why Stormy hasn't been in court on criminal charges for the same incident.

What charges?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[lippy 765]

jakee

Quote

I'm a little curious why Stormy hasn't been in court on criminal charges for the same incident.

What charges?

Since when does the far right need a reason to start chanting "lock her up!"?

I got nuthin

[kallend 1,621]

lippy

***

Quote

I'm a little curious why Stormy hasn't been in court on criminal charges for the same incident.

What charges?

Since when does the far right need a reason to start chanting "lock her up!"?

They just use the wrong pronoun, as Cohen and Flynn will know.

Should be "me".

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,621]

Iago

Last I checked extortion was highly illegal.

Please cite the evidence that anything was extorted.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

kallend

***Last I checked extortion was highly illegal.

Please cite the evidence that anything was extorted.

Well, in general, someone getting paid to keep salacious information secret is generally viewed as extortion. Particularly since Daniels/Clifford approached Trump first.

It may or may not meet the legal standard. That depends on a lot of things.
Much of it is dependent on the 'victim' being willing to press charges. That doesn't seem to be present in this case.

However, the method and timing of the payments are quite clearly illegal. Not Daniels/Clifford, but Trump & Cohen.

The payment was disguised as 'legal fees' paid by the Trump Foundation to Cohen. Legal fees are an expense, and tax deductible, while paying for a porn star's silence isn't. If they deducted the 'legal fees' from their income and didn't pay tax on that money, it's tax fraud.

And I don't think the Trump Foundation can legally pay Trump's personal expenses like this. That is also fraud.

Funny how long and loud the Trumpettes screamed about the apparent misdeeds of the Clinton Foundation, yet are rather silent about the Trump foundation.

Last, but certainly not least, the payment was shortly before the election. It was clearly to silence Daniels/Clifford and keep the story under wraps. It was to keep the story from affecting the election.

That makes the payment a campaign expense. And it wasn't reported as such. Which is against the law. Which is why Cohen is now a convicted felon.
And with Trump fully aware of the whole situation, he is an 'unindicted co-conspirator' (at least unidicted so far).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,254]

Iago

Last I checked extortion was highly illegal.

So why isn't Trump pressing charges?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Iago

******Last I checked extortion was highly illegal.

So why isn't Trump pressing charges?

IDK. Probably political at this point. Nevermind that the prosecutors are
the same people NOT going after the matriarch of the Clinton Crime Family for taking over the DNC and rigging the primaries against Bernie.

Welcome to the freak show! A nice quiet island in the Pacific looks better every day.

What would they charge Hillary with?

What specific crimes?

I don't disagree that it was underhanded, dishonest and despicable.

It was one (of many) reasons I didn't vote for her.

But I don't think there was anything illegal about it.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,121]

You are incredibly incoherent. Just jumping from subject to subject. Looking to throw people in jail without charges. Couple of conspiracy theories. Some very selective outrage.

Based on those traits I am going to surmise you are a proud Trump supporter. Generally fond of women when they make you sandwiches. Those of a different skin colour really don't belong in the US. Love the death penalty, but hate abortions. The poor are lazy, unless they are white males then Obama took their jobs away. And most importantly, guns.

How did I do?

[JoeWeber 2,294]

Iago

******What is Trump doing that would constitute a proper reason to impeach him?

In your opinion.

Marc,

I'll answer you but in return you need to agree to answer our questions. In good faith, I'll trust your agreement in advance.

On September 3 he tweeted:

“Two long running, Obama era, investigations of two very popular Republican Congressmen were brought to a well publicized charge, just ahead of the Mid-Terms, by the Jeff Sessions Justice Department. Two easy wins now in doubt because there is not enough time. Good job Jeff…”

The President was clearly attempting to use the Justice Department for political gains and advising Justice officials to ignore allegations of corruption against Republicans to that end. The President has a constitutional obligation to carry out the laws of the nation. His tweet is evidence he does not accept that responsibility.

His own attorney acknowledged in court that Trump violated campaign finance laws by directing him to pay hush money to his mistresses and to have other damning allegations purchased by a third party and squashed. Those are conspiracies to commit criminal acts. That is also an impeachable offense.

There are more but for now let's stop here.

Please note that impeachment is not removal. It is stage 1. Credible allegations are investigated by the House and, if warranted, referred to the Senate for trial. As with Clinton, who was a douche in my mind, Trump may walk away and continue his Presidency. But I think all honest Patriotic Americans, especially those who support Trump and believe him innocent, should welcome such proceedings and get it over one way or another.

Your turn.

Joe

Removing a sitting president over (A) a tweet and/or (B) paying extortion money to a has-been porn actress to keep her cock be shut. Didn't work, by the way. I'm a little curious why Stormy hasn't been in court on criminal charges for the same incident.

Uh-huh, really.

You'll have to do better than that.

Alexander Hamilton, in Federalist 65, explained a certain definition of an impeachable high crime:

A well-constituted court for the trial of impeachments is an object not more to be desired than difficult to be obtained in a government wholly elective. The subjects of its jurisdiction are those offenses which proceed from the misconduct of public men, or, in other words, from the abuse or violation of some public trust. They are of a nature which may with peculiar propriety be denominated POLITICAL, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.

Trump violated the public trust by violating his oath of office: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." and did so by attempting to politicize the US Department of Justice who were pursuing serious charges against members of his own party and he did so to further his own self interests.

That makes it an impeachable offense. It's a little tricky to understand, sure, but that doesn't change things.

As to whether conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws to swing an election in your favor is an impeachable offense, Cohen testified that he made the payments “in coordination with and at the direction of a candidate for federal office.” That would be the Donald Trump who did not disclose the payments in his 2017 financial disclosure forms. Cohen committed, and plead guilty to, a felony and his co-conspirator was Trump.

That makes it an impeachable offense.

[jcd11235 0]

Iago

… the matriarch of the Clinton Crime Family for taking over the DNC and rigging the primaries against Bernie.

I see you, too, have sheltered yourself from reality. Doesn't all that sand scratch your eyeballs?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

SkyDekker

You are incredibly incoherent. Just jumping from subject to subject. Looking to throw people in jail without charges. Couple of conspiracy theories. Some very selective outrage.

But Benghazi!

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,254]

Quote

IDK. Probably political at this point.

If by 'political' you mean it would involve Trump having to answer questions about all the laws he, his staff, his company and his charity broke while paying the hush money then yeah, sure it's political

Quote

Nevermind that the prosecutors are
the same people NOT going after the matriarch of the Clinton Crime Family

What have the Clintons done that comes remotely close to the naked profiteering of the Trump mafia?

Quote

for taking over the DNC and rigging the primaries against Bernie.

Shocking behaviour by the DNC, sure. But is there evidence that she was involved in rigging it, or did other officials decide to rig it for her?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

First, thank you for your service.

FWIW: Try not to expend too much time and energy on foreign progressive liberals that hate America because of their envy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Phil1111 908]

wolfriverjoe

******Last I checked extortion was highly illegal.

Please cite the evidence that anything was extorted.

Well, in general, someone getting paid to keep salacious information secret is generally viewed as extortion. Particularly since Daniels/Clifford approached Trump first.

It may or may not meet the legal standard. That depends on a lot of things.
Much of it is dependent on the 'victim' being willing to press charges. That doesn't seem to be present in this case.

However, the method and timing of the payments are quite clearly illegal. Not Daniels/Clifford, but Trump & Cohen.

The payment was disguised as 'legal fees' paid by the Trump Foundation to Cohen. Legal fees are an expense, and tax deductible, while paying for a porn star's silence isn't. If they deducted the 'legal fees' from their income and didn't pay tax on that money, it's tax fraud.

And I don't think the Trump Foundation can legally pay Trump's personal expenses like this. That is also fraud.

Funny how long and loud the Trumpettes screamed about the apparent misdeeds of the Clinton Foundation, yet are rather silent about the Trump foundation.

Last, but certainly not least, the payment was shortly before the election. It was clearly to silence Daniels/Clifford and keep the story under wraps. It was to keep the story from affecting the election.

That makes the payment a campaign expense. And it wasn't reported as such. Which is against the law. Which is why Cohen is now a convicted felon.
And with Trump fully aware of the whole situation, he is an 'unindicted co-conspirator' (at least unidicted so far).

I'm sorry but concise all encompassing posts cutting to the core of tribal politics don't change the mindset of trump tribalists.

[billvon 2,380]

>>the same people NOT going after the matriarch of the Clinton Crime Family

>What have the Clintons done that comes remotely close to the naked profiteering of the
>Trump mafia?

She used the wrong email server once.

[jakee 1,254]

RonD1120

First, thank you for your service.

FWIW: Try not to expend too much time and energy on foreign progressive liberals that hate America because of their envy.

I love it when you basically admit you have no argument, but plow ahead anyway.

Did you ever get an answer about those police blockades in the streets of the UK from those friends of yours? Nah, of course you didn't

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[yoink 321]

RonD1120

First, thank you for your service.

FWIW: Try not to expend too much time and energy on foreign progressive liberals that hate America because of their envy.

Ron, nobody here 'hates' America. In fact, that's a phrase that seems typically to only be used by extremely right-wing conservatives who are afraid of any opinions that don't match their own.

Saying that people hate an entire country isn't only ignorant (how you profess to know the motivations of people you've never met is pretty arrogant, if you ask me), but it's also lazy because you're grouping an entire people by a single assumed emotion. The truth is that most people don't hate an entire country because of the actions or current stance of their government. The use of the word 'hate' is a transparent and deliberate hyperbole designed to inflame non-existent fears in others in order to rally them to your side.

Secondly, you probably need to get over yourself with how you think of the US - America isn't so amazing that people from any other country are continually envious of you, particularly in the current political climate. Like any country there are good bits and bad bits. Again you seem incapable of drawing any spectrum of distinctions other than 'great' or bad', 'us' or 'them', 'liberal' (used as a pejorative) and 'conservative' etc.
Try opening your eyes just a little to the subtleties of the world.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Iago

Considering she's the Teflon Don where nothing sticks, absolutely nothing.

Shultz was outed from the DNC over the incident and her replacement did her own investigation. Don't believe me, read it from the horses mouth


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774

Speaking of mental instability, where was the Great Hope Hillary on election night? HAVING A MELTDOWN BECAUSE SHE LOST!

Well, it's really hard to have charges 'stick' when there's no actual crime committed. It says so right in the article you linked.

Quote

Wow. Being indicted and convicted of a crime that was predicated by another crime where THAT criminal is not only free of charges, but working the media circuit getting donations for her legal defense

Well, Trump and his minions could have gone to the cops and filed extortion charges. Maybe. It depends a lot on how Daniels/Clifford approached him.

And even though Trump chose to 'cave' to the extortion (if it was, in fact a crime), he didn't have to pay it out illegally.
I'm going to guess that he has $130k available somewhere.

He (and Cohen) chose to make the payment (and another $290k to Cohen, if I understand it correctly) in an illegal manner.

That was their choice. That was a crime. Which Cohen pled guilty to.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jakee 1,254]

Iago

Wow. Being indicted and convicted of a crime that was predicated by another crime where THAT criminal is not only free of charges, but working the media circuit getting donations for her legal defense.

So you don't think Trump should be indicted for his crimes because Clifford hsn't been indicted for extortion? Even though you acknowledge that it's at least partly up to Trump to press charges? You've just invented a very strange paradox!

So then, if that's your only objection, presumably you would support an indictment of Trump for those numerous financial crimes if Clifford was indicted for extortion?

Quote

Express train to CRAZY TOWN! Now boarding at platform six! All aaboooooAAARD!

You haven't disagreed with the notion that Trump committed crimes in the course of paying off Clifford.

Now, do you really believe it's crazy to think it's more important to hold the President of the USA to account for his crimes than to hold a random hooker to account for hers?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

Iago

***What would they charge Hillary with?

What specific crimes?

Considering she's the Teflon Don where nothing sticks, absolutely nothing.
What do you think should stick? What specific crimes do you think she committed?

Bear in mind that if you refuse to answer that question again, you're going to look kinda silly.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

> She used the wrong email server once.

Surely we can agree that that is a _much_ bigger offense than anything of which Trump has been accused.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!