NYT: "I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration"

[jakee 1,254]

rushmc

By the way, what you called a anonymous source for the birther BS regarding Obama came from the Hillary camp!

This shit that's so funny just can't be made up!

And yet you just made it up. And it's not very funny.

He's referring to this tweet. And that's just one example. Trump uses anonymous sources all the time. Every tweet or speech that contains 'many people are saying' or 'most people think' or my favourite 'even my enemies agree' is invoking anonymous sources. And unlike what you get from the NYT, WaPo and Bob Woodward, they're pretty much all are fake news - because Trump doesn't possess their integrity or even understand their code of ethics.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,254]

JoeWeber

Who knows if it's even legit but the op-ed seems written by a male. This:

Quote

But we believe our first duty is to this country

seems the sort of thing a military person would write.

So.... have you heard women can join the military now too?

And when I say now, I mean for significantly longer than you've been alive.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pchapman 261]

jakee

So.... have you heard women can join the military now too?

And when I say now, I mean for significantly longer than you've been alive.

To understand the base rate statistics, what proportion of US generals or colonels & above are female? Are you suggesting a 50/50 split?

Or, similarly, since the writer of the Resistance piece was supposedly a "senior official in the administration", if Trump doesn't shoot a gun down 5th Avenue, but shoots a random senior member of his administration, what are the chances that he shoots a female vs. a male?

(Of course, someone predicting something was written by a male becomes a more trivial observation as the proportion of males approaches 100%.)

Joe's comment about the opinion letter reflecting a certain military mindset seems to be the more important observation in any case.

[Phil1111 910]

yoink

***https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/opinion/trump-white-house-anonymous-resistance.html

Infuriating part is the author even knows the 25th Amendment should be invoked.

I still don't like it. Not one bit.

The American public and the electoral system of the country put the Trump in the driving seat and they should bear the consequences of that. Successes and failures should be borne on the president's shoulders, not interfered with by people who's job it is to advise him then follow direction, regardless of if they agree with it or not.
If they can't do that then they should quit.

All of them should be fired for this type of behavior IMO, unless WW3 is literally on the line. Sabotaging your boss in a private company would be INSTANT dismissal.

Mitigating damage is all very well, but what if they mitigate it far enough that we're stuck with Trump for another 4 years because traditional Republicans don't see the damage he's done?

Anonymous resistance isn't useful to the country in general terms. No-one know's it's happening or what it's happening over. All of it is hearsay and 'confidential sources'.

Think of it this way - what if your choice of president had won and white house staffers were deliberately sabotaging their policies? You'd be fucking furious, and rightly so.

trump himself has chosen those that surround him.

If what you're representing has a sound basis in fact. trump should just ignore his own legal council. Trot right over to Mueller's offices and tell the truth. He can make his own intelligent decisions. He is the president, he has stated himself that he's like a, "smart guy".

Thats not going to happen because the "orange jumpsuit" would be the result. Just as you don't let a 10 year old child buy and drive a 1000cc crotch rocket. Those the not only know him,, those that he himself personally hired as the "best of the best".Are making intelligent decisions because trump will not seriously study matters, read briefing notes in detail and consult.

Instead, impulsive "gut feelings" rule his decision making. Typically arising by the last idea presented to him.

A new witch hunt in the WH will begin again. As trump tracks down the leakers to Woodward. Paranoia, fear and the circus of WH policy, carry on.

[JoeWeber 2,298]

jakee

***Who knows if it's even legit but the op-ed seems written by a male. This:

Quote

But we believe our first duty is to this country

seems the sort of thing a military person would write.

So.... have you heard women can join the military now too?

And when I say now, I mean for significantly longer than you've been alive.

Posts: 17778, go figure.

They were separate ideas. I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

yoink

...I don't believe the contract of working at the white house has an 'obey all orders given by the president unless you disagree with them, in that case feel free to stymie it however you can' clause...

We, the people, have a responsibility to elect officials who we believe will do the best job they can. If we later decide we don't like the job our elected official is doing there are legal channels to remove them - as you pointed out, the 25th is one of them in the case of the President. If we don't take that responsibility seriously and elect a disaster then I believe we should live with the consequences.

What is illegal and reprehensible is to take matters into your own hands unless the law is clearly being broken. It's fine to feel like your position is untenable as a staffer because you disagree with the policies being taken. The solution is to quit, not sabotage the system.

I didn't elect these people who are now unilaterally and secretly defining policy by deciding what our president gets to see and what he doesn't. You didn't either.

I not sure you take what they're doing seriously enough.



I reiterate, I think Trump is an awful, awful president, but the reality is that any damage he's causing is temporary. International relations can be fixed. Edicts can be unwritten. I choose to believe that any real insanity (let's nuke the middle east!) would be met by the 25th.
But the country needs a wake up call that voting is a serious business and that to elect a clown is to have your country turned into a circus... As someone who posts here you're already more involved in politics than 90% of Americans - it's going to take a serious event to wake those people up to their responsibility, otherwise we'll just run into the same problem a few presidents down the road.

The problem is that Trump has pretty clearly committed more than just a couple of crimes.

Campaign finance, emoluments clause, obstruction, perhaps even treason.

He clearly has no conscience. He has no concept of 'consequences for actions.'
If his advisers are keeping him from doing 'bad things', then they are doing their job. Guiding and advising him, even when he refuses to listen.
Both Mattis & Kelly seem to see their position as working for the country, not for Trump.

I understand your position, but when the POTUS is an emotional and intellectual child, then someone has to be the grownup.

He should be removed. Period.

If this was Obama, impeachment hearings would already be in progress. But since the R base supports Trump, the congress-critters won't lift a finger to stop him.

JoeWeber

I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

Apparently there's a betting outfit in Costa Rica that has odds posted.

For individuals (the leader is 'the field' - none of the named people), the favorite is Pence. Apparently the word 'lodestar' was used a couple times in the editorial.

And apparently Pence is the only one in the administration who's on record having used that word.

NY Post story

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[RonD1120 58]

It doesn't mean anything.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,396]

So Ron went with the "it doesn't matter" angle.

At least Trump supporters are easy to predict.

[gowlerk 1,910]

Quote

But since the R base supports Trump, the congress-critters won't lift a finger to stop him.

Trump can be relied on to sign any legislation that gets to his desk from the Congress. That gives the R party real power that they have not had for a long time. That is all that matters. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's only the lack of 60 Senate votes that keeps them from absolute power.

I am relatively sure that Ds would act the same or similar in the same situation.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,910]

RonD1120

It doesn't mean anything.

I largely agree Ron. There is nothing here that we did not already know. The revelations of the last two days only provide confirmation of what has been obvious.

God Bless America!

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,623]

“You’d have to go back to Hans Christian Andersen, ‘The Emperor Has No Clothes,’ to see this syndrome where the president’s reality happens to be so different from his own senior advisers,”; David Brinkley, Historian.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JoeWeber 2,298]

wolfriverjoe

***

...I don't believe the contract of working at the white house has an 'obey all orders given by the president unless you disagree with them, in that case feel free to stymie it however you can' clause...

We, the people, have a responsibility to elect officials who we believe will do the best job they can. If we later decide we don't like the job our elected official is doing there are legal channels to remove them - as you pointed out, the 25th is one of them in the case of the President. If we don't take that responsibility seriously and elect a disaster then I believe we should live with the consequences.

What is illegal and reprehensible is to take matters into your own hands unless the law is clearly being broken. It's fine to feel like your position is untenable as a staffer because you disagree with the policies being taken. The solution is to quit, not sabotage the system.

I didn't elect these people who are now unilaterally and secretly defining policy by deciding what our president gets to see and what he doesn't. You didn't either.

I not sure you take what they're doing seriously enough.



I reiterate, I think Trump is an awful, awful president, but the reality is that any damage he's causing is temporary. International relations can be fixed. Edicts can be unwritten. I choose to believe that any real insanity (let's nuke the middle east!) would be met by the 25th.
But the country needs a wake up call that voting is a serious business and that to elect a clown is to have your country turned into a circus... As someone who posts here you're already more involved in politics than 90% of Americans - it's going to take a serious event to wake those people up to their responsibility, otherwise we'll just run into the same problem a few presidents down the road.

The problem is that Trump has pretty clearly committed more than just a couple of crimes.

Campaign finance, emoluments clause, obstruction, perhaps even treason.

He clearly has no conscience. He has no concept of 'consequences for actions.'
If his advisers are keeping him from doing 'bad things', then they are doing their job. Guiding and advising him, even when he refuses to listen.
Both Mattis & Kelly seem to see their position as working for the country, not for Trump.

I understand your position, but when the POTUS is an emotional and intellectual child, then someone has to be the grownup.

He should be removed. Period.

If this was Obama, impeachment hearings would already be in progress. But since the R base supports Trump, the congress-critters won't lift a finger to stop him.

JoeWeber

I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

Apparently there's a betting outfit in Costa Rica that has odds posted.

For individuals (the leader is 'the field' - none of the named people), the favorite is Pence. Apparently the word 'lodestar' was used a couple times in the editorial.

And apparently Pence is the only one in the administration who's on record having used that word.

NY Post story

Pence, we're told, wants to be President. Authoring an anonymous op-ed would be a hell of a risk for him. That doesn't smell right. Like them or not there are some smart cookies in the White House. It seems reasonable that a fair bit of thought into covering tracks would have gone into it. For sure they knew it would be taken apart.

Ghosted by George Conway?

[SkyDekker 1,121]

jakee

***By the way, what you called a anonymous source for the birther BS regarding Obama came from the Hillary camp!

This shit that's so funny just can't be made up!

And yet you just made it up. And it's not very funny.

He's referring to this tweet. And that's just one example. Trump uses anonymous sources all the time. Every tweet or speech that contains 'many people are saying' or 'most people think' or my favourite 'even my enemies agree' is invoking anonymous sources. And unlike what you get from the NYT, WaPo and Bob Woodward, they're pretty much all are fake news - because Trump doesn't possess their integrity or even understand their code of ethics.

I turned on Hannity last night.

After fuming about anonymous sources he had a panel discussion in which Hannity himself and his 3 panel members all discussed what their sources were telling them, all without naming their sources.

I mean, you can't make this shit up.

[DJL 232]

Quote

By the way, what you called a anonymous source for the birther BS regarding Obama came from the Hillary camp!

This shit that's so funny just can't be made up!

It's so funny that it ACTUALLY IS MADE UP. There was nothing from the Hillary camp that began this birther thing, it started in 2004 during his Senatorial campaign.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,396]

>It's so funny that it ACTUALLY IS MADE UP.

Well, of course. He's using alternative facts. Reality based facts aren't working so well for Trump supporters these days.

[jakee 1,254]

wolfriverjoe

***I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

Apparently there's a betting outfit in Costa Rica that has odds posted.

For individuals (the leader is 'the field' - none of the named people), the favorite is Pence. Apparently the word 'lodestar' was used a couple times in the editorial.

And apparently Pence is the only one in the administration who's on record having used that word.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the author and the NYT editors they worked with intentionally threw in a few characteristic words and turns of phrase from colleagues as misdirection for the inevitable molehunt.

And I'm not really curious who wrote it. No-one will come forward until they either get fired or Trump's admin goes down in flames. I'm sure it is genuine though. Not just because I trust both the NYT's editorial ethics and sense of self preservation would prevent it from inventing something like this, but because the overall sense of the essay is one of immense arrogance and self-importance. A perfect fit for a role in the West Wing right now

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JoeWeber 2,298]

jakee

******I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

Apparently there's a betting outfit in Costa Rica that has odds posted.

For individuals (the leader is 'the field' - none of the named people), the favorite is Pence. Apparently the word 'lodestar' was used a couple times in the editorial.

And apparently Pence is the only one in the administration who's on record having used that word.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the author and the NYT editors they worked with intentionally threw in a few characteristic words and turns of phrase from colleagues as misdirection for the inevitable molehunt.

And I'm not really curious who wrote it. No-one will come forward until they either get fired or Trump's admin goes down in flames. I'm sure it is genuine though. Not just because I trust both the NYT's editorial ethics and sense of self preservation would prevent it from inventing something like this, but because the overall sense of the essay is one of immense arrogance and self-importance. A perfect fit for a role in the West Wing right now

I'm not as certain. Whomever it is will always be a self serving douchebag in the eye's of many and it seems a certainty their career in government is over. Come out of the shadows now, while the getting is good, and claim a book deal.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

jakee

******I was simply pondering who might be the writer. Aren't you curious?

Apparently there's a betting outfit in Costa Rica that has odds posted.

For individuals (the leader is 'the field' - none of the named people), the favorite is Pence. Apparently the word 'lodestar' was used a couple times in the editorial.

And apparently Pence is the only one in the administration who's on record having used that word.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the author and the NYT editors they worked with intentionally threw in a few characteristic words and turns of phrase from colleagues as misdirection for the inevitable molehunt.

And I'm not really curious who wrote it. No-one will come forward until they either get fired or Trump's admin goes down in flames. I'm sure it is genuine though. Not just because I trust both the NYT's editorial ethics and sense of self preservation would prevent it from inventing something like this, but because the overall sense of the essay is one of immense arrogance and self-importance. A perfect fit for a role in the West Wing right now

Absolutely.

The book "Primary Colors" (about the Clinton pres campaign) was demonstrated to have been written by Joe Klein, using all sorts of language analysis.

To think that the author of this piece didn't know that, and didn't perhaps throw in a couple of "red herrings" to confound anyone trying to figure it out would be somewhat foolish.

I am somewhat curious who wrote it, and what their real motives and expectations are. As was noted, this isn't anything new, just confirmation of what has been supposed by many.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,396]

Quote

Whomever it is will always be a self serving douchebag in the eye's of many

And a hero in the eyes of many others. Some dems will see him as resisting the will of Trump; some GOPers will call him a hero for protecting "true conservatism" or some such.

Quote

and it seems a certainty their career in government is over. Come out of the shadows now, while the getting is good, and claim a book deal.

If that's his goal, surely hanging on for another 6/12/18 months makes his story all the more valuable. "I put one over on Trump - even after he knew I was there!" And if he gets found before that? Again his story gets more interesting.

[billvon 2,396]

>As was noted, this isn't anything new, just confirmation of what has been supposed by many.

Agreed. "Doing stuff to get around Trump" goes back to Bannon.

[JoeWeber 2,298]

billvon

Quote

Whomever it is will always be a self serving douchebag in the eye's of many

And a hero in the eyes of many others. Some dems will see him as resisting the will of Trump; some GOPers will call him a hero for protecting "true conservatism" or some such.
***and it seems a certainty their career in government is over. Come out of the shadows now, while the getting is good, and claim a book deal.

If that's his goal, surely hanging on for another 6/12/18 months makes his story all the more valuable. "I put one over on Trump - even after he knew I was there!" And if he gets found before that? Again his story gets more interesting.

Maybe reputation rehabilitation amongst family and friends is part of the play. No matter, they are coming for the writer with knives now and who can say how valuable the story will be later when other books are already written. Mark Felt?

[ryoder 1,382]

JoeWeber

Mark Felt?

I've already seen the author referred to as "Deep Wrote" and "Deep Ink" on Twitter.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jakee 1,254]

wolfriverjoe

I am somewhat curious who wrote it, and what their real motives and expectations are.

It's possible the author thinks they're playing the long game - they're assuming the Trump admin is going to poison the reputation of everyone associated with it and they want to be able to say "Look! I was one of the good ones!" and keep a high position elsewhere in the party. If that's the case, I think they're underestimating how much people hate seeing their dirty laundry aired in public, even when they agree with you in private.

Another possibility, given all the reports of Trump's man-management style, is simply that by now this person really, really, really frikkin' hates the guy, and is taking satisfaction in screwing him over. After all, the op-ed is mostly damning on a personal level, since the author claims that the end result of the shenanigans is that the administration is doing a good job on policy.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,396]

>The best solution is the 25th Amendment.

I found this line somewhat ironic:

"there were early whispers within the cabinet of invoking the 25th Amendment, which would start a complex process for removing the president. But no one wanted to precipitate a constitutional crisis."

Using the Constitution to remove a president from power is the opposite of a Constitutional crisis. Indeed, it is what the Constitution is FOR - a rulebook of how to do things in the US government.

Staff members stealing bills from the president's desk because they don't like them - that is much closer to a Constitutional crisis.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

As Trump's own staff is turning against him, he is getting support from those that really matter.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1037656324010663937