Olympic Skydiving

[cosmicgypsy 5]

Is there any effort to get skydiving as an Olympic event? I remember there was an attempt back in the late 80s, maybe.
Just wondering

[obelixtim 100]

cosmicgypsy

Is there any effort to get skydiving as an Olympic event? I remember there was an attempt back in the late 80s, maybe.
Just wondering

Not worth the hassle. Which discipline would you have?

Tunnel might become one (beats synchronised swimming), but that's not skydiving.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[IanHarrop 37]

https://www.fai.org/news/women-fai-meet-gillian-rayner-newly-elected-president-fai-parachuting-commission-ipc

"What is your vision for the IPC now you are President?

One key objective is to work closely with the French Parachute Federation, the FAI and the IPC on the Olympic Project that, if successful, will see Indoor Skydiving as an event at the 2024 Olympics in Paris."

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[BillyVance 34]

There was a discussion on Twitter among a few peeps about how judged events shouldn't be in the Olympics, like figure skating for example.

The Olympic motto is the hendiatris Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

I don't see anything about judging in there. Just food for thought.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[SethInMI 145]

BillyVance

[some people say] judged events shouldn't be in the Olympics

You try to have any sporting event without some official(s) making judgement calls and get back to me. Go ahead, have a football game, or a basketball game, or even run a 100m sprint without any officials.

All those events require human judgement calls to ensure people are playing by the rules. The solution to "I hate it when the officials get the judgement call wrong" is not to eliminate the entire sport, but to work on improving the officiating.

Figure skating and gymnastics (at least those) have changed scoring a lot to make it more structured, give specific point values for specific moves etc.

Some people will always bitch about what sports should be in the Olympics, some others will bitch that we even have the Olympics at all. Whatever. I like them. Every 4 years all these athletes from sports no one cares about get this huge spotlight on them, makes for compelling drama.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[Bob_Church 7]

cosmicgypsy

Is there any effort to get skydiving as an Olympic event? I remember there was an attempt back in the late 80s, maybe.
Just wondering

I remember in the early 80s some jumpers were afraid to do paid demos because they worried that it would label them professional and keep them out of the Olympics, which were going to happen any day now.

[ryoder 1,380]

SethInMI

***[some people say] judged events shouldn't be in the Olympics

You try to have any sporting event without some official(s) making judgement calls and get back to me. Go ahead, have a football game, or a basketball game, or even run a 100m sprint without any officials.

All those events require human judgement calls to ensure people are playing by the rules. The solution to "I hate it when the officials get the judgement call wrong" is not to eliminate the entire sport, but to work on improving the officiating.

Figure skating and gymnastics (at least those) have changed scoring a lot to make it more structured, give specific point values for specific moves etc.

Some people will always bitch about what sports should be in the Olympics, some others will bitch that we even have the Olympics at all. Whatever. I like them. Every 4 years all these athletes from sports no one cares about get this huge spotlight on them, makes for compelling drama.

Let me explain what Billy is saying in a different way:

If the event cannot be scored by a device, it should not be in the Olympics.
Of course you will always need officials to flag when rules are violated

You can use cameras/timers to objectively determine who reached a finish line first.
You can use a tape measure to objectively measure a broad jump or javelin throw.
You can use scales to objectively measure the weight that was lifted.

But something like figure skating is judged purely on the subjective opinions of humans.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[SethInMI 145]

ryoder

You can use cameras/timers to objectively determine who reached a finish line first.
You can use a tape measure to objectively measure a broad jump or javelin throw.
You can use scales to objectively measure the weight that was lifted.

But something like figure skating is judged purely on the subjective opinions of humans.

Oh I know what Billy is saying. I just think you can't eliminate the possibility of controversy over a win (in events with possibility of human/human contact)

But like I said, go ahead and advocate for it. You will get nowhere of course. The future is not eliminating judgement calls, but making them more accurate. With computers and cameras, eventually the question "what score will that triple axel get?" will be just as accurate and reproduce-able as "how far did that long jumper go?"

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[jcd11235 0]

ryoder

Let me explain what Billy is saying in a different way:

If the event cannot be scored by a device, it should not be in the Olympics.
Of course you will always need officials to flag when rules are violated

You can use cameras/timers to objectively determine who reached a finish line first.
You can use a tape measure to objectively measure a broad jump or javelin throw.
You can use scales to objectively measure the weight that was lifted.

But something like figure skating is judged purely on the subjective opinions of humans.

It is a (nearly) trivial machine learning problem to use sensors to objectively measure figure skating performance, as an example. Subjectivity has largely been removed from scoring in the "judged" events. There are specific criteria that must be met in order for a maneuver/technique to be considered properly executed.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[BillyVance 34]

ryoder

******[some people say] judged events shouldn't be in the Olympics

You try to have any sporting event without some official(s) making judgement calls and get back to me. Go ahead, have a football game, or a basketball game, or even run a 100m sprint without any officials.

All those events require human judgement calls to ensure people are playing by the rules. The solution to "I hate it when the officials get the judgement call wrong" is not to eliminate the entire sport, but to work on improving the officiating.

Figure skating and gymnastics (at least those) have changed scoring a lot to make it more structured, give specific point values for specific moves etc.

Some people will always bitch about what sports should be in the Olympics, some others will bitch that we even have the Olympics at all. Whatever. I like them. Every 4 years all these athletes from sports no one cares about get this huge spotlight on them, makes for compelling drama.

Let me explain what Billy is saying in a different way:

If the event cannot be scored by a device, it should not be in the Olympics.
Of course you will always need officials to flag when rules are violated

You can use cameras/timers to objectively determine who reached a finish line first.
You can use a tape measure to objectively measure a broad jump or javelin throw.
You can use scales to objectively measure the weight that was lifted.

But something like figure skating is judged purely on the subjective opinions of humans.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was trying to convey. There have been some controversies with judges getting bought/paid to judge a certain way for a competitor, mostly in figure skating and boxing.

Yes, you do need oversight when a rule is broken and then to determine what the consequence is. But I agree, there is no fool proof system that makes everyone happy.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Bob_Church 7]

SethInMI

***
You can use cameras/timers to objectively determine who reached a finish line first.
You can use a tape measure to objectively measure a broad jump or javelin throw.
You can use scales to objectively measure the weight that was lifted.

But something like figure skating is judged purely on the subjective opinions of humans.

Oh I know what Billy is saying. I just think you can't eliminate the possibility of controversy over a win (in events with possibility of human/human contact)

But like I said, go ahead and advocate for it. You will get nowhere of course. The future is not eliminating judgement calls, but making them more accurate. With computers and cameras, eventually the question "what score will that triple axel get?" will be just as accurate and reproduce-able as "how far did that long jumper go?"

But you could look at the video of a discus throwing contest 20 years ago and see who won even with no volume or explanations. You look and see which person threw it the furthest.
You can't do that with, say, figure skating or (God Help Us) synchronized swimming. You'd have to find out what the judges decided to see who won.

[ryoder 1,380]

jcd11235

It is a (nearly) trivial machine learning problem to use sensors to objectively measure figure skating performance, as an example. Subjectivity has largely been removed from scoring in the "judged" events. There are specific criteria that must be met in order for a maneuver/technique to be considered properly executed.

Bias in judging figure skating: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/think-olympic-figure-skating-judges-are-biased-data-says-they-n844886

And what happens when it is the judges who break the rules?
Not much: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/figure-skating-lets-judges-who-break-rules-return-judge-another-n845441

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jcd11235 0]

ryoder

***
It is a (nearly) trivial machine learning problem to use sensors to objectively measure figure skating performance, as an example. Subjectivity has largely been removed from scoring in the "judged" events. There are specific criteria that must be met in order for a maneuver/technique to be considered properly executed.

Bias in judging figure skating: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/think-olympic-figure-skating-judges-are-biased-data-says-they-n844886

And what happens when it is the judges who break the rules?
Not much: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/figure-skating-lets-judges-who-break-rules-return-judge-another-n845441

Yes, humans err (and/or cheat). Refs in "objective" sports are subject to exactly the same problems. It's because they're human, not because the performances can only be judged subjectively. That's all the more reason to implement an ML solution (and not just in figure skating).

One of the first machine learning projects I ever completed would have served well as proof of concept that ML can easily be used to determine, objectively, whether or not a maneuver has been correctly executed. It's not a difficult problem, or even an unsolved one.

People thinking figure skating (or other semi-obscure sport) is completely, or even mostly, subjective generally just don't understand the sport, and rather than acknowledge their ignorance, they try to denigrate the sport. We see the same thing in the NFL, where fans (and frequently announcers) can't be bothered (or lack the intellectual capacity) to learn the very reasonable catch rule, instead criticizing the rule in hopes the Competition Committee will dumb down the rules to a level even the dumbest fans can still understand after 18 beers.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[SethInMI 145]

ryoder

Bias in judging figure skating:

Yeah, I saw that too. I am not saying the correct person always wins. I am saying that judging mistakes (deliberate or accidental) happen in a lot of sports. The solution is not to not play them.

I think basketball is harder to officiate than figure skating. Deciding whether or not contact was a foul is a very tough call. Does not mean we should not play the game at all though.

Instead we work to try and make the judging of bad things (fouls, penalties) or good things (spins, flips, thrown strikes) be as accurate as possible, including converting to computerized methods as available.

To that end, I think all officials need to be monitored and the bad ones re-trained or fired; we can all agree on that.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[mbailey465 1]

Quote

The Olympic motto is the hendiatris Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

Thoughts on CP becoming an Olympic event? Speed, Distance and Accuracy are about as un-biased as they come.

[yoink 321]

mbailey465

Quote

The Olympic motto is the hendiatris Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

Thoughts on CP becoming an Olympic event? Speed, Distance and Accuracy are about as un-biased as they come.

Personally, I think it would be boring to watch, the risk of a competitor dying on international TV would be too high for the Olympic Committee to take a chance on, and the nuances of what makes a foot of difference in the end result would be lost on whuffos. There's nothing relatable about the sport to someone who not only hasn't done any skydiving, but who hasn't done quite a lot of it.

[oldwomanc6 38]

BillyVance

There was a discussion on Twitter among a few peeps about how judged events shouldn't be in the Olympics, like figure skating for example.

The Olympic motto is the hendiatris Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

I don't see anything about judging in there. Just food for thought.

Well, there's not much faster or higher.

That said, It's probably boring to the average viewer, and the risk is high.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[mbailey465 1]

There are Olympic events far more boring than CP! Some of the crowds at the Copenhagen Swoop Challenge were rather impressive! (not to mention mostly whuffos)

I do agree with the international TV fatality part though, trying to justify the most dangerous part of the most dangerous discipline in an apparently dangerous sport might be tough.

[skyjames 2]

I thought the issue of skydiving as an Olympic sport was nixed mainly because it required powered aircraft and all Olympic sports had to be human powered only.

Don't recall where I read or heard this.

"exit fast, fly smooth, dock soft and smile"
'nother james

[Phil1111 908]

ryoder

***
It is a (nearly) trivial machine learning problem to use sensors to objectively measure figure skating performance, as an example. Subjectivity has largely been removed from scoring in the "judged" events. There are specific criteria that must be met in order for a maneuver/technique to be considered properly executed.

Bias in judging figure skating: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/think-olympic-figure-skating-judges-are-biased-data-says-they-n844886

And what happens when it is the judges who break the rules?
Not much: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/figure-skating-lets-judges-who-break-rules-return-judge-another-n845441

Rhythmic Gymnastics, luge, similar sports, state sponsored cheating-AKA Russia,

"In reality, the IOC is driven solely by a lust for money, and have repeatedly exhibited a total lack of compassion for the athletes and ruined cities they often leave in their wake.

To support a country's bid, individual IOC members have requested everything from cash to paying for plastic surgery for their spouses. While considering Norway's bid for the 2018 Olympic Games, the IOC asked for 24-hour butler service and separate entrances at the Oslo Airport.

Additionally, the IOC made the absurd request that the King of Norway host a cocktail party--at his expense--for members.

The IOC sells countries on the idea of hosting the Games with promises of social and financial benefits. But a country's financial cut is solely determined by the IOC. There is no guaranteed return, and the IOC uses the revenue on itself. They are currently building a state-of-the-art facility in Switzerland, where they are exempt from paying taxes due to the non-profit status they have somehow been granted.

That's right: an organization that will earn an estimated $4 billion revenue this summer has non-profit status. "
https://www.flotrack.org/articles/5053760-the-iocs-true-ideals-corruption-and-greed

[BillyVance 34]

yoink

***

Quote

The Olympic motto is the hendiatris Citius, Altius, Fortius, which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

Thoughts on CP becoming an Olympic event? Speed, Distance and Accuracy are about as un-biased as they come.

Personally, I think it would be boring to watch, the risk of a competitor dying on international TV would be too high for the Olympic Committee to take a chance on, and the nuances of what makes a foot of difference in the end result would be lost on whuffos. There's nothing relatable about the sport to someone who not only hasn't done any skydiving, but who hasn't done quite a lot of it.

Plus you have a lot of variables with wind speeds and such...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[DJL 232]

The biggest reason skydiving won't be an Olympic sport is that nobody wants to watch a group of people touching each other as quickly as possible. They make it look so easy that all it looks like is a group of people touching each other, there's nothing relatable, no story, no arc, no race, it's just people touching each other. There's no frame of reference that makes it look like they're falling or that there's even any relevance to the fact that they're falling. Once you get over the fact that they're skydive you just say, OK, they touched each other 34 times, I wonder if the next group will touch each other 35 times? No, I'll go watch snowboarding...

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,380]

>That said, It's probably boring to the average viewer

Agreed there. But it would be competing with . . . . curling?

>and the risk is high.

After "the agony of defeat" it doesn't seem like there's much worse we could do. (And the Olympics sees the occasional death even now; heatstroke and collisions during luge or downhill has killed half a dozen or so.)

[muff528 3]

I'm completely opposed to the idea of defiling or tarnishing the image of our sport by allowing it to become another Olympic dog and pony show. ...Not unless one of the requirements is to honor ancient Olympic tradition by doing it naked.

[billvon 2,380]

>Not unless one of the requirements is to honor ancient Olympic tradition by doing it naked.

In January.