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jclalor

You pull up to a DUI checkpoint drunk...

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You exit your car, and in plain site toss your keys as far as you can, and then slam down several huge slugs of an adult beverage of your choice. Are you off the hook? How could they prove when you were drunk?

**Im not advocating this, just curious if this defense would fly.**

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jclalor

You exit your car, and in plain site toss your keys as far as you can, and then slam down several huge slugs of an adult beverage of your choice. Are you off the hook? How could they prove when you were drunk?

**Im not advocating this, just curious if this defense would fly.**



That got beat to death in a.f.u a few times. It's from an old list of stuff from National Lampoon magazine if I remember right. Or maybe one of their movies.
Assuming you don't get shot I don't think it would let you off the hook but I don't think it ever got a definitive answer.
It's interesting.

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You'd have to fight it out in court if you could some how prove you were not drunk before you pulled up. The cops don't care, they would still arrest you.

At these check points it's assumed you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent. And it's not just DUI they are looking for. They look to write tickets for expired tags, inspection, insurance. They even look for flimsy reasons to get people to consent to searches of their car.
diamonds are a dawgs best friend

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jclalor

You exit your car, and in plain site toss your keys as far as you can, and then slam down several huge slugs of an adult beverage of your choice. Are you off the hook? How could they prove when you were drunk?

**Im not advocating this, just curious if this defense would fly.**



Doubt it. A judge and jury probably wont believe your story. Even if they did, the police would probably just charge you with public drunkenness or something of the sort. Also, in some states it's considered DUI if you're drunk and in immediate control of a vehicle. As in, if you're sitting next to your car with your keys in pocket leaning against the hood and you're drunk. That can still be a DUI. Also, most states have laws against open containers or transportation of alcohol in a manner that it can be reached by the driver. In other words, if the beer can be accessed by the driver while driving, that's illegal in some states. Open containers anywhere in the vehicle except the trunk is also illegal in some states.

You'd be better off taking responsibility for the DUI and consider yourself lucky you dont live in another country which will revoke your license for life and throw you in jail if you get a DUI. The USA is way too leanent on DUIs as it is. It should be that if you're drunk off your ass driving, your license is gone for 5 years first offense and 90 days jail time minimal. Second offense, you never drive again and minimum six months in jail.

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jclalor

You exit your car, and in plain site toss your keys as far as you can, and then slam down several huge slugs of an adult beverage of your choice. Are you off the hook? How could they prove when you were drunk?

**Im not advocating this, just curious if this defense would fly.**



You'll probably have a better outcome calling an Uber rather than keeping a bottle of liquor within arms reach because you drive drunk so often that this is a realistic scenario.

Yeah, I know we're talking about internet lore.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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countzero

You'd have to fight it out in court if you could some how prove you were not drunk before you pulled up. The cops don't care, they would still arrest you.

At these check points it's assumed you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent. And it's not just DUI they are looking for. They look to write tickets for expired tags, inspection, insurance. They even look for flimsy reasons to get people to consent to searches of their car.



And they're not easy to win against. They love their pot sniffing dogs here in Athens County and they're never ever wrong. After all, if they find pot after saying the dog alerted it proves it works and if they don't you're so glad to get out of there you just go, quickly and quietly.
In the early 70s they pulled over a local lawyer who also is well known for fighting for defendants charged for pot. The dog alerted (how do you know when a police dog alerts? Well, the deputy tells you it did) but as hard as they tried they didn't even find a seed. So they let him go but McGee didn't let it slide. He wrote up an editorial about it for the Athens Messenger. He won.
Well, no. Next week in the Athens Messenger was an editorial from the Sheriff. He never named McGee and passed the article off as just an interesting tidbit about law enforcement dogs and pot.
According to him some pot smokers are right out of Reefer Madness. They need pot every waking moment and smoke so much that it comes out of their skin and because of that you should keep your daughters far away from them. And in some cases a person is such a mary jane monster that the smell of it coming out of their pores will cause a dog to alert.
So in the Name of God stay away from anyone who may fit this description.

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In the US Field Sobriety Tests are voluntary. And, you can avoid them - they're required to advertise in most states. One can read up on Sobriety Test guidelines. The best advice is to not answer ANY questions. Not ANY. From where are you going to where have you been. NOTHING. You have a 5th amendment right - use it.

Suggestion:
Just get the UBER app. Save yourself thousands of dollars for the cost of parking and a ride. The life you save may be that of a child.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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BIGUN

In the US Field Sobriety Tests are voluntary. And, you can avoid them - they're required to advertise in most states. One can read up on Sobriety Test guidelines. The best advice is to not answer ANY questions. Not ANY. From where are you going to where have you been. NOTHING. You have a 5th amendment right - use it.

Suggestion:
Just get the UBER app. Save yourself thousands of dollars for the cost of parking and a ride. The life you save may be that of a child.



Yea you can refuse a test, but in some states refusing the test is an automatic revocation of your drivers license. It's burred in the terms and conditions when you receive your license. When I got my drivers license I remember signing a document that says I agree to any police issued field sobriety tests and that if I refuse I agree to a revocation of my license for not less than one year.

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I didn't say, refuse. I said avoid. There's apps, advertising required in many states, my State requires an exit option from the gauntlet, etc Having said that, if you got to do all that silliness, then you might have a bigger issue.

Best course of action us to punch the lock button on your vehicle and hit the Uber app button. In my area; it has become *in vogue" for lack of a better term to use Uber.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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BIGUN

Best course of action us to punch the lock button on your vehicle and hit the Uber app button. In my area; it has become *in vogue" for lack of a better term to use Uber.



Better still is to leave the car at home and use Lyft/Uber from the start so there's never any temptation (or parking fees).
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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BIGUN

I didn't say, refuse. I said avoid. There's apps, advertising required in many states, my State requires an exit option from the gauntlet, etc Having said that, if you got to do all that silliness, then you might have a bigger issue.

Best course of action us to punch the lock button on your vehicle and hit the Uber app button. In my area; it has become *in vogue" for lack of a better term to use Uber.



Where I live the road blocks are set up in which by the time you see the signs there is no way to legally turn around. They put them at the end of a bridge or something like that where the only option is to go through them or turn around and do an illegal U turn, in which there is a cop waiting to pull you over.

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Stiffer penalties against drunk drivers are not the likely solution, but of course one that Americans in general would embrace because we are a country of punitive punishment and not education or rehab. IMO

Drunk driving accidents have been cut in half over 30 years. That is pretty good. Just like gun violence, you cannot expect to eliminate it, but you can make significant improvements in the numbers

MADD managed to not only increase penalties, but changed the entire culture of DUI. When I was a kid, we would be laughing at that drunk guy trying to get out of the parking lot - it was funny. 20 years later, you would tackle your friend at the party and take their keys away because they were about to do something really stupid.

I expect the other dozens of factors include the economy, education, lack of healthcare, the opioid crisis, the american dream, lack of public transportation, etc as some of the reasons why (it seems) that drunk driving still exists, or maybe the perception that it is increasing.

People drink for a lot of reasons. Tackling that as a social issue will probably have a greater effect on the outcomes than simply saying "We're going to change a first time offense from a 12 month suspension to a 2 year suspension"

Increasing penalties at this point I believe would be diminishing returns. Long sentences only serve to destroy the lives of everyone attached to the offender. Not solving any problem of why that person decided to or felt they needed to get behind the wheel to get home..

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jcd11235

***Best course of action us to punch the lock button on your vehicle and hit the Uber app button. In my area; it has become *in vogue" for lack of a better term to use Uber.



Better still is to leave the car at home and use Lyft/Uber from the start so there's never any temptation (or parking fees).

There's that also, but some folks start out with the best of intentions. Having too much can sometimes be a factor of not being the destination; but where you wind up.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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Alcohol does not kill people in accidents. People kill people in accidents. I am assuming your post is in jest. Because stiffer penalties are proven to work. Including jail terms. DUI sentences in America tend to be light. Unless someone is killed, then they go over the top.

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stiffer penalties are proven to work UP TO A POINT. And they are PART of the solution, not 'the' solution. As I stated.

that is my point.... I even used the term 'diminishing returns'.

Assume then that handing out life and death sentences would eliminate drunk driving? I doubt that. And so do you

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gowlerk

I am assuming your post is in jest. Because stiffer penalties are proven to work.



He didn't claim they didn't work. He said that further increases would likely result in diminishing returns. In other words, he's claiming that we cannot expect an increase in jail time from, for example, 12 months to 23 months, to decrease DUI rates by the same magnitude as did increasing jail time from 30 days to 1 year, even though the increased time is identical, 11 months.

What would be shocking is if TK's claim wasn't true.
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Westerly

Yea you can refuse a test, but in some states refusing the test is an automatic revocation of your drivers license. It's burred in the terms and conditions when you receive your license. When I got my drivers license I remember signing a document that says I agree to any police issued field sobriety tests and that if I refuse I agree to a revocation of my license for not less than one year.



That's not true, there are two types of tests...preliminary & evidentiary. Preliminary tests are given on the side of the road (FST, handheld Breath-A-Lyzer, etc.), evidentiary tests are given back at the station (either officially calibrated breath test or blood test). SCOTUS has ruled that preliminary tests are unconstitutional as they are a warrentless search & cannot be mandatory as a condition of getting a license. Only an evidentiary breath test after a valid arrest can be required because at that point it becomes a search incident to arrest which doesn't require a warrant.

Most state laws have been updated to reflect this. VA law, for example, specifically states, "Any person who has been stopped by a police officer of the Commonwealth, or of any county, city or town, or by any member of a sheriff's department and is suspected by such officer to be guilty of an offense listed in subsection A, shall have the right to refuse to permit his breath to be so analyzed." Now, your state may still have an old, unconstitutional law on the books but unconstitutional laws are unenforceable.

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countzero


At these check points it's assumed you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent. And it's not just DUI they are looking for. They look to write tickets for expired tags, inspection, insurance. They even look for flimsy reasons to get people to consent to searches of their car.



I disagree. I have been involved in several DUI road checks and not only are they well advertised but there are turn-offs before the check point. People still drive through who are obviously drunk. Everyone else gets past through unless there are other VERY obvious violations. This happened in Temple Terrace, FL. Results elsewhere may vary..
Dano

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tkhayes

Stiffer penalties against drunk drivers are not the likely solution, but of course one that Americans in general would embrace because we are a country of punitive punishment and not education or rehab. IMO

Drunk driving accidents have been cut in half over 30 years. That is pretty good. Just like gun violence, you cannot expect to eliminate it, but you can make significant improvements in the numbers

MADD managed to not only increase penalties, but changed the entire culture of DUI. When I was a kid, we would be laughing at that drunk guy trying to get out of the parking lot - it was funny. 20 years later, you would tackle your friend at the party and take their keys away because they were about to do something really stupid.

I expect the other dozens of factors include the economy, education, lack of healthcare, the opioid crisis, the american dream, lack of public transportation, etc as some of the reasons why (it seems) that drunk driving still exists, or maybe the perception that it is increasing.

People drink for a lot of reasons. Tackling that as a social issue will probably have a greater effect on the outcomes than simply saying "We're going to change a first time offense from a 12 month suspension to a 2 year suspension"

Increasing penalties at this point I believe would be diminishing returns. Long sentences only serve to destroy the lives of everyone attached to the offender. Not solving any problem of why that person decided to or felt they needed to get behind the wheel to get home..



Penalties for first offense are so serious and long term, plus looked down on socially in most circles that anyone who goes through that and still drives drunk has other problems. And that I think is where the real problem is. How do you deal with someone who won't or can't quit? How much can you do to someone who has already lost everything but still drinks and drives? You see an article about someone who's had five then killed someone on their sixth. "How can they allow this?" But how do you stop it? Are we willing to lock someone up for life, and at how many DUIs?
And it's all pretty ironic when you see so many people behind the wheel while on the phone. How long is it going to take us have that same sea change that we've had on DUI and domestic violence about that?

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Bob_Church

***Stiffer penalties against drunk drivers are not the likely solution, but of course one that Americans in general would embrace because we are a country of punitive punishment and not education or rehab. IMO

Drunk driving accidents have been cut in half over 30 years. That is pretty good. Just like gun violence, you cannot expect to eliminate it, but you can make significant improvements in the numbers

MADD managed to not only increase penalties, but changed the entire culture of DUI. When I was a kid, we would be laughing at that drunk guy trying to get out of the parking lot - it was funny. 20 years later, you would tackle your friend at the party and take their keys away because they were about to do something really stupid.

I expect the other dozens of factors include the economy, education, lack of healthcare, the opioid crisis, the american dream, lack of public transportation, etc as some of the reasons why (it seems) that drunk driving still exists, or maybe the perception that it is increasing.

People drink for a lot of reasons. Tackling that as a social issue will probably have a greater effect on the outcomes than simply saying "We're going to change a first time offense from a 12 month suspension to a 2 year suspension"

Increasing penalties at this point I believe would be diminishing returns. Long sentences only serve to destroy the lives of everyone attached to the offender. Not solving any problem of why that person decided to or felt they needed to get behind the wheel to get home..



How long is it going to take us have that same sea change that we've had on DUI and domestic violence about that?

Domestic violence is taken seriously in many places. If you are convicted of domestic violence, you cannot own a firearm. On the other hand, you could have 5 DUIs and still own a gun as long as they are not felonies.

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No, at least in Texas. This is not legal advice and I am not your lawyer.
Step 1: say to yourself: I am almost certainly going to jail tonight. DO NOT say or do anything stupid to make this bad situation worse. Cooperate now and you will be happy later. Save the arguments for the courtroom. Cop trick is to make you think you might still be able to drive home if you will just admit you are drunk, don't fall for it! If you see 2 or more cop cars for you, you are definitely going to be arrested (one of them is your limo!).
Step 2: you have the option to refuse the field sobriety and breathalyzer test and insist on a blood test. In Texas, if you refuse, your driver's license will automatically be suspended for 6 months. This refusal forces a blood test. If the officer can get a warrant (depends on availability of magistrate), you must submit to the blood test which is very accurate and takes weeks to return. The warrants tend to be harder to get in rural counties.
Step 3: book in, change into your jumpsuit, call your people and tell them you need bail set up and wait for your arraignment (usually 9 or 10 in the morning, but in any event must be within 24 hours of arrest). The arraignment is where your charges are formalized and bond is set.
Step 4: Your people bond you out and hopefully your people pick you up and give you a ride home.
Step 5: Get your car back from the tow lot
Step 6: Call a lawyer
Step 7: Request administrative hearing. In Texas you only have 15 days from the date of the arrest to request an administrative hearing on the driver's license suspension, otherwise you waive it. Request it even if you are not sure you will go to it.

I am not your lawyer and none of this is legal advice.

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tylerdurden1

No, at least in Texas. This is not legal advice and I am not your lawyer.
Step 1: say to yourself: I am almost certainly going to jail tonight. DO NOT say or do anything stupid to make this bad situation worse. Cooperate now and you will be happy later. Save the arguments for the courtroom. Cop trick is to make you think you might still be able to drive home if you will just admit you are drunk, don't fall for it! If you see 2 or more cop cars for you, you are definitely going to be arrested (one of them is your limo!).
Step 2: you have the option to refuse the field sobriety and breathalyzer test and insist on a blood test. In Texas, if you refuse, your driver's license will automatically be suspended for 6 months. This refusal forces a blood test. If the officer can get a warrant (depends on availability of magistrate), you must submit to the blood test which is very accurate and takes weeks to return. The warrants tend to be harder to get in rural counties.
Step 3: book in, change into your jumpsuit, call your people and tell them you need bail set up and wait for your arraignment (usually 9 or 10 in the morning, but in any event must be within 24 hours of arrest). The arraignment is where your charges are formalized and bond is set.
Step 4: Your people bond you out and hopefully your people pick you up and give you a ride home.
Step 5: Get your car back from the tow lot
Step 6: Call a lawyer
Step 7: Request administrative hearing. In Texas you only have 15 days from the date of the arrest to request an administrative hearing on the driver's license suspension, otherwise you waive it. Request it even if you are not sure you will go to it.

I am not your lawyer and none of this is legal advice.

Texas will force a blood draw. Fl. A guy recently dui killed someone and refused breath, blood and urine and wasn't forced. I had 3 dui's in Fl 30 yrs. ago and refused every time. None forced. I had cops let me call a ride a couple times or say go straight home. Never hurt anything or anyone, luckly. In La. early 80s limit was .2 Could drink at 18. Times have a changed. Take a cab.
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

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tylerdurden1

Step 2: you have the option to refuse the field sobriety and breathalyzer test and insist on a blood test. In Texas, if you refuse, your driver's license will automatically be suspended for 6 months. This refusal forces a blood test. If the officer can get a warrant (depends on availability of magistrate), you must submit to the blood test which is very accurate and takes weeks to return. The warrants tend to be harder to get in rural counties.



This is what I was talking about. Texas law requires you to already be under arrest before implied consent takes effect. If you are simply stopped for suspicion you do not have to take the test. Here's the law...

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.724.htm

The very first sentence..."Sec. 724.011. CONSENT TO TAKING OF SPECIMEN. (a) If a person is arrested for an offense arising out of acts alleged to have been committed while the person was operating a motor vehicle in a public place, or a watercraft, while intoxicated, or an offense under Section 106.041, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the person is deemed to have consented, subject to this chapter, to submit to the taking of one or more specimens of the person's breath or blood for analysis to determine the alcohol concentration or the presence in the person's body of a controlled substance, drug, dangerous drug, or other substance."

So until you're arrested, you can refuse all day long without penalty. Now, I'm not a lawyer but these guys are & they all say you have to already be under arrest before you're required to take a test...

https://www.ramosdelcueto.com/understanding-the-implied-consent-law-in-texas/
https://www.wilderdwidefense.com/what-is-the-dwi-implied-consent-law-in-texas/
http://www.barrettcrimelaw.com/Blog/2016/July/Understanding-Implied-Consent-in-Texas.aspx

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