Self driving Uber fatality

[gowlerk 1,903]

This should set things back some.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/19/technology/uber-autonomous-car-fatal-crash/index.html

[BillyVance 34]

Just because you can take your hands off the steering doesn't mean you can take your eyes off the road in front of you.

Somebody didn't think this through.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 2,384]

>Just because you can take your hands off the steering doesn't mean you can take your eyes
>off the road in front of you.

Well, that is the premise behind self driving cars - that you can take your eyes off the road.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Having someone behind the wheel "monitoring" in case something goes wrong is just complete bullshit. You are either the driver or you are not. There is no way someone can react fast enough to take control that quickly.

Quote

"The vehicle involved is one of Uber's self-driving vehicles," the Tempe police said in a statement. "It was in autonomous mode at the time of the collision, with a vehicle operator behind the wheel."

Autonomous mode means the car is driving on its own. During tests, a person sits behind the wheel as a safeguard.

[Remster 24]

BillyVance

Just because you can take your hands off the steering doesn't mean you can take your eyes off the road in front of you.

Somebody didn't think this through.

Billy: this is not the Tesla autopilot. This is a self driving car that's being tested.

Remster

[raftman 12]

Oh hell, we all knew at some point it was going to happen.

[ryoder 1,381]

This has me curious;
Uber cars are, (or at least were), using LIDAR.
That is what the legal fracas between Uber and Waymo was about.
An engineer from Waymo, who had a lot of knowledge about LIDAR, went to Uber.
I don't see how LIDAR could miss seeing a cyclist.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wan2doit 6]

All reports I have heard tonight on TV (CBS, ABC, NBC) said the pedestrian was "out of a crosswalk" - maybe this smart car was programmed to disregard law violators.

In the end many will be sacrificed to advance technology just because they can dream it up..

[jcd11235 0]

wan2doit

In the end many will be sacrificed to advance technology just because they can dream it up..

I expect self-driving cars still have, on a per-mile basis, a much better safety record than human drivers.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[wan2doit 6]

Unless one is on the short end of an AI automobile experiment stick like this lady was.

[jcd11235 0]

wan2doit

Unless one is on the short end of an AI automobile experiment stick like this lady was.

One shouldn't allow an anecdote to outweigh data when making a decision.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[muff528 3]

Rule #1: "A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."

Just sayin' ..

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

One shouldn't allow an anecdote to outweigh data when making a decision.

That theory is unproven so far. But it should be achievable. Going on how poorly humans drive. The problems that still need to be solved for AI transportation to be reliable are much larger that most people realize. This technology is not "just around the corner".

[jcd11235 0]

gowlerk

… Going on how poorly humans drive. …

And that's the key. AI doesn't need to be perfect to be a viable option, it just needs to be better.

Deep learning will continue improving, and we'll see the AIs' driving further improve. I would argue that the biggest blockers remaining are philosophical (e.g., how to choose which road user to hit when all maneuvering options within the performance envelope of the vehicle will result in one or more road users being hit) and general public perception of the safety of AI drivers.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[pchapman 261]

I am curious how self driving cars will work out for liability.

When you have a dead pedestrian, it is still awkward even if the company were able to say that their cars have half the accident rate of humans. You get no credit for accidents avoided.

A particular design trait of some software is a concrete target for legal action, maybe worse than just blaming a human for an imperfection in the evolution of their brain. (How replicable some complex behaviour is 'of the computer' is another matter.)

If a human driver kills a ped, instead of some random schmuck driver, now a huge corporation might be seen as the one responsible. An interesting target for lawsuits! Clearly some thought will go into how things work for insurance and liability.

Edit: Acts of God are one thing, acts of software & other engineers may be treated differently....

[Bob_Church 7]

ryoder

This has me curious;
Uber cars are, (or at least were), using LIDAR.
That is what the legal fracas between Uber and Waymo was about.
An engineer from Waymo, who had a lot of knowledge about LIDAR, went to Uber.
I don't see how LIDAR could miss seeing a cyclist.

Is the end game really to put out a car where nobody would have to even know how to drive? Here's the part I really can't even being to work out. I live in a college town and sometimes moving forward is a downright battle of the will between driver and college students in the street (I won't degrade the word pedestrians by referring to them with it). What then?

[ryoder 1,381]

Bob_Church

Is the end game really to put out a car where nobody would have to even know how to drive? Here's the part I really can't even being to work out. I live in a college town and sometimes moving forward is a downright battle of the will between driver and college students in the street (I won't degrade the word pedestrians by referring to them with it). What then?

Well, the latest I'm reading is that she was crossing a multi-lane street at night, in a location where there is no crosswalk. So I'm expecting a final decision that the car was not at fault.

As for the goal of autonomous cars, the SAE has already defined multiple degrees of autonomy from 0-5.
See the table "SAE (J3016) Autonomy Levels" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Levels_of_driving_automation

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Bob_Church 7]

ryoder

***
Is the end game really to put out a car where nobody would have to even know how to drive? Here's the part I really can't even being to work out. I live in a college town and sometimes moving forward is a downright battle of the will between driver and college students in the street (I won't degrade the word pedestrians by referring to them with it). What then?

Well, the latest I'm reading is that she was crossing a multi-lane street at night, in a location where there is no crosswalk. So I'm expecting a final decision that the car was not at fault.

As for the goal of autonomous cars, the SAE has already defined multiple degrees of autonomy from 0-5.
See the table "SAE (J3016) Autonomy Levels" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Levels_of_driving_automationv

I didn't mean in this case, it's just something I've wondered about. I mean, if you want to drive down Court Street in Athens between classes the first thing you have to do is convince them that you're NOT subject to the three laws of robotics, if you know what I mean. Otherwise they'll find your starved corpse in a cobweb covered car when Summer break gets here.

[ryoder 1,381]

Bob_Church

I didn't mean in this case, it's just something I've wondered about. I mean, if you want to drive down Court Street in Athens between classes the first thing you have to do is convince them that you're NOT subject to the three laws of robotics, if you know what I mean. Otherwise they'll find your starved corpse in a cobweb covered car when Summer break gets here.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jcd11235 0]

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php

Preliminary investigation suggests the AI was not at fault.

"Pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags, a woman abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic and was struck by a self-driving Uber operating in autonomous mode."

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Bob_Church

******
Is the end game really to put out a car where nobody would have to even know how to drive? Here's the part I really can't even being to work out. I live in a college town and sometimes moving forward is a downright battle of the will between driver and college students in the street (I won't degrade the word pedestrians by referring to them with it). What then?

Well, the latest I'm reading is that she was crossing a multi-lane street at night, in a location where there is no crosswalk. So I'm expecting a final decision that the car was not at fault.

As for the goal of autonomous cars, the SAE has already defined multiple degrees of autonomy from 0-5.
See the table "SAE (J3016) Autonomy Levels" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_car#Levels_of_driving_automationv

I didn't mean in this case, it's just something I've wondered about. I mean, if you want to drive down Court Street in Athens between classes the first thing you have to do is convince them that you're NOT subject to the three laws of robotics, if you know what I mean. Otherwise they'll find your starved corpse in a cobweb covered car when Summer break gets here.

Well, maybe knowing that the self driving cars will run them over if they jaywalk will help with that.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

Based on preliminary information, the car was going approximately 40 mph in a 35 mph zone, according to Tempe Police Detective Lily Duran.

So, the car that is supposed to be safer because there is no human controlling it is programed to speed?

[BillyVance 34]

jcd11235

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php

Preliminary investigation suggests the AI was not at fault.

"Pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags, a woman abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic and was struck by a self-driving Uber operating in autonomous mode."

Well... one less idiot to worry about now...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[ryoder 1,381]

gowlerk

Quote

Based on preliminary information, the car was going approximately 40 mph in a 35 mph zone, according to Tempe Police Detective Lily Duran.

So, the car that is supposed to be safer because there is no human controlling it is programed to speed?

I'm more inclined to believe the posted street signs, than what one cop said: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4350531,-111.941492,3a,49.5y,347.01h,83.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx-K4_17J8MVthFRapvIa2A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Remster 24]

BillyVance

***https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Exclusive-Tempe-police-chief-says-early-probe-12765481.php

Preliminary investigation suggests the AI was not at fault.

"Pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags, a woman abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic and was struck by a self-driving Uber operating in autonomous mode."

Well... one less idiot to worry about now...

Wow. Nice level of empathy.

Remster