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Bob_Church

Good news and bad news for kids in cave

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Bob_Church

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Well, you seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the coach is being blamed by the parents and authorities.

I have yet to see that anywhere in the stories I have read.

He may be to blame. He may face consequences (if he survives).

But my question stands:

Where are you getting the idea that the coach is being blamed for this? From any particular reports, or just your own head?



The culture of the Thai people, based on Buddhism, is very different to western ideas about blame, life and death etc.

So they will accept whatever happens, with the attitude that it was meant to be.

Not to say they won't be sad and upset if their loved ones are lost. But they will not apportion blame.



We'll see, but I think you may be leaning on the culture thing a bit hard.

With good reason.

I've spent quite a lot of time in Thailand, and they do have a totally different mindset to Westerners when it comes to such things.

You can see it in the responses the kids themselves have given. Nobody is blaming the coach.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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obelixtim

******

Quote

Well, you seem to be jumping to the conclusion that the coach is being blamed by the parents and authorities.

I have yet to see that anywhere in the stories I have read.

He may be to blame. He may face consequences (if he survives).

But my question stands:

Where are you getting the idea that the coach is being blamed for this? From any particular reports, or just your own head?



The culture of the Thai people, based on Buddhism, is very different to western ideas about blame, life and death etc.

So they will accept whatever happens, with the attitude that it was meant to be.

Not to say they won't be sad and upset if their loved ones are lost. But they will not apportion blame.



We'll see, but I think you may be leaning on the culture thing a bit hard.

With good reason.

I've spent quite a lot of time in Thailand, and they do have a totally different mindset to Westerners when it comes to such things.

You can see it in the responses the kids themselves have given. Nobody is blaming the coach.

Cool.

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ryoder

Media shooed away, and ambulances arriving;
Looks like it's going down tonight:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-08/thailand-cave-rescue-ambulances-arrive-at-site/9955116



They can't extricate them all in one whack, can they?

So much speculation. So few facts. Prayers and thoughts for their safe rescue, as well as the rescue personnel.
lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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A Bangkok Post reporter has said on Twitter that the first stage of the operation will be to recover four boys.

“Sending support and prayers to the Seal unit and the first four kids to come out safe,” he wrote on Twitter.

The Guardian has not been able to confirm this and officials have not confirmed details of the operation.


Live updates from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/08/thailand-cave-rescue-operation-divers-trapped-boys-live
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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ryoder

A Bangkok Post reporter has said on Twitter that the first stage of the operation will be to recover four boys.

“Sending support and prayers to the Seal unit and the first four kids to come out safe,” he wrote on Twitter.

The Guardian has not been able to confirm this and officials have not confirmed details of the operation.


Live updates from The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/08/thailand-cave-rescue-operation-divers-trapped-boys-live



I hope this is true (hopefully the word recover is a translation issue), and this is also (in my ignorance) what I said would be the most likely way that any good outcome may happen given the constraints.

I pray this is what is happening.
lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

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From the Guardian Live link:

Rescue mission is underway, governor confirms

The rescue mission has begun, the governor has confirmed at a press conference this morning.

18 divers have been sent into the caves to retrieve the 12 boys and their football coach. The 13 people inside the cave have been informed and are ready and their families have been informed.

Medical teams have been rehearsing for three days and are ready to treat the group when they emerge.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

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>I wouldn't rule out liquid oxygen eventually.

Pure oxygen has killed a fair number of people in situations like this (elevated pressures, uncertain concentrations.) It can work if you monitor ppO2 and adjust as necessary, but this doesn't seem like the sort of environment where that could be done well.

Regular air has a lot of advantages, including that since it's free you can pump a lot of volume and displace CO2 (and water.)

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billvon

***A Bangkok Post reporter has said on Twitter that the first stage of the operation will be to recover four boys.

Good luck to them. That's a difficult dive for the best of cave divers.

Really hoping everyone involved makes it out OK. Need all the good luck possible and more.

Further to the point about "blame":


Quote

But for many in Thailand, Ekapol, who left his life in the monkhood three years ago and joined the Wild Boars as an assistant coach soon after, is an almost divine force, sent to protect the boys as they go through this ordeal. A widely shared cartoon drawing of Ekapol shows him sitting cross-legged, as a monk does in meditation, with 12 little wild boars in his arms.
According to rescue officials, he is among the weakest in the group, in part because he gave the boys his share of the limited food and water they had with them in the early days. He also taught the boys how to meditate and how to conserve as much energy as possible until they were found.
"If he didn't go with them, what would have happened to my child?" said the mother of Pornchai Khamluang, one of the boys in the cave, in an interview with a Thai television network. "When he comes out, we have to heal his heart. My dear Ek, I would never blame you."


My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Latest is that 2 of the boys have made it to chamber 3, where they can walk out.

Great news if that is correct and very encouraging, but there is a long way to go yet in this mission.

They were bringing out 4 first of all, then 3 groups of 3. Hopefully the 2nd pair of the first group are OK.

ETA:

So they have got 4 out successfully, and the operation is suspended for 10 hours or so. I guess the most experienced divers doing the most difficult part need some rest. Apparently its raining heavily.

Great effort so far. Hopefully they can get the rest out safely. Success will give them a big boost.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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obelixtim

******A Bangkok Post reporter has said on Twitter that the first stage of the operation will be to recover four boys.

Good luck to them. That's a difficult dive for the best of cave divers.

Really hoping everyone involved makes it out OK. Need all the good luck possible and more.

Further to the point about "blame":


Quote

But for many in Thailand, Ekapol, who left his life in the monkhood three years ago and joined the Wild Boars as an assistant coach soon after, is an almost divine force, sent to protect the boys as they go through this ordeal. A widely shared cartoon drawing of Ekapol shows him sitting cross-legged, as a monk does in meditation, with 12 little wild boars in his arms.
According to rescue officials, he is among the weakest in the group, in part because he gave the boys his share of the limited food and water they had with them in the early days. He also taught the boys how to meditate and how to conserve as much energy as possible until they were found.
"If he didn't go with them, what would have happened to my child?" said the mother of Pornchai Khamluang, one of the boys in the cave, in an interview with a Thai television network. "When he comes out, we have to heal his heart. My dear Ek, I would never blame you."



Imagine how much cheaper skydiving would be if we had that attitude in the US. DZOs can win lawsuit after lawsuit because they're baseless but it's still expensive just to defend yourself.

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Another 4 are now out. Incredible. 5 to go. Hope it goes well for them as well.

ETA: Operation suspended again to replenish supplies and rest the divers. So far so good.....
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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I thought my scuba training was interesting and cool..... My second open water dive was 140' off the north wall in Grand Cayman....

I hope they all get honorary PADI open water, advanced, rescue, nitrox ratings to hang on the wall. Just give all of the ratings to them...
https://www.padi.com/courses

more balls that I would ever have, but I guess the balls actually grow from "you got no choice". imminent demise is sometimes a motivator.....

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>I hope they all get honorary PADI open water, advanced, rescue, nitrox ratings to hang on
>the wall. Just give all of the ratings to them.

Sure - as long as it's clear that they are honorary, and they actually want them.

Although if it were me, a picture of the rescue team (hopefully with names) would be a lot more meaningful.

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Who knows, maybe they'll pay it forward and want to become scuba divers with an eye on becoming a rescue diver at some point in the future.

They were taking each kid out with two divers, one alongside and one behind, with the diver alongside also carrying the kid's tank.

Incredible circumstances I couldn't even dream of doing. But like it's said, you wanna live, you gotta go for it.

I saw they brought in American divers. Awesome... We do have some of the best divers in the world. Hope every one of them makes it out.
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

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BillyVance

Who knows, maybe they'll pay it forward and want to become scuba divers with an eye on becoming a rescue diver at some point in the future.

They were taking each kid out with two divers, one alongside and one behind, with the diver alongside also carrying the kid's tank.

Incredible circumstances I couldn't even dream of doing. But like it's said, you wanna live, you gotta go for it.

I saw they brought in American divers. Awesome... We do have some of the best divers in the world. Hope every one of them makes it out.



It really is an international effort....90 divers all up, of which 50 are foreigners.....Britain, Australia, Japan, China, Sweden, Burma, Laos, and the US.

The Brits and the Aussie doctor, plus some of the Thai SEALS are the ones who went all the way and are the ones actually accompanying the kids. The others are all engaged in stages along the way, ensuring everything is in place and working. Incredible effort, and extremely dangerous. work.

They ALL deserve the highest honours, far more than any of the politicians, celebrities and assorted arse lickers who usually line up for accolades.

True heroes.

I see that FIFA have invited the boys to the football world cup final game in Moscow if they are well enough.

Notable that they forgot to invite the rescuers as well!
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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"Who knows, maybe they'll pay it forward and want to become scuba divers with an eye on becoming a rescue diver at some point in the future. "

I think I'd consider paying it forward by going into a career in Security and make sure nobody ignores the warning signs at similar places.

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Given the almost nonexistent grandstanding (at least that I’ve seen, though I’ll admit I’m not glued to the news), I’d say that these rescue divers are, in fact, the quiet professionals.

They all have a worthy goal, and are focused on it. They’re (ahem) thinking of the children :)
Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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The two most experienced Brit cave divers are just hobbyists, they do this for fun. I think one works in IT and the other is a firefighter. But they are the foremost experts, having developed a lot of the cave diving techniques and equipment they use.

I don't think the cave diving community is particularly large.

But they certainly have a professional attitude and try to stay out of the limelight. But you can bet the worlds media will be after them when this is over. Wouldn't surprise me to see them just fade into the background - a bit like Homer Simpson and the hedge.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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Looks like they have got all 12 and the coach out successfully.

Absolutely awesome job, such skill and bravery by all involved. Sad that it cost the life of a diver, but his sacrifice hasn't been in vain.

Really shows the good side of humanity.
My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

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