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yuri_base

Wingsuit research

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Pillowing of inflatable mattresses creates a lot of drag on the trailing edge, reduces lift (as lift vector on angled portions of "pillows" is angled to vertical plane), as well as creates additional turbulence on the whole top of the wing.

[inline Pillowing.jpg]

'The Machine' with its precise cut, flat span-wise foam wings won't have any pillowing whatsoever and have sharp trailing edges. BOOM!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Pillowing.jpg

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BTW, the above picture illustrates another huge problem: shoes sticking out in the airflow, with large flat surfaces trailing in the airflow and creating large areas of negative pressure - lots of parasitic drag! Especially bad with most modern sneakers and hiking shoes where the thick soles flare out to the bottom. (James jumping in slick climbing shoes, the ones for maximum traction, for free climbing, with rounded soles with much smaller surface area is a good idea.) We need to come up with some solution to reduce this drag. Maybe, some kind of ram-inflatable flarings attached to bottom of shoes that won't interfere with exit, but will inflate into a conical shape in flight. At least, with The Machine, stretching the suit shoulders to toes is not necessary (as there's no 'suit' per se), so toes can be pointed as much back as possible, reducing the "footprint" of the shoes.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.

[inline SurfaceAreaReduction.png]
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

SurfaceAreaReduction.png

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yuri_base

This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

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LeeroyJenkins

***This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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yuri_base

******This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever...

We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic.

Also can you posts the equation for lift?

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I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm highly skeptical of this idea, especially since you haven't even addressed how deployment would work. But...

You should check out "hot wire foam cutting". There are super cheap tools available on amazon so you can do manual sculpting of foam. There are automatic hot wire cutting machines that can make them. Also some clever DIY hacks to make it cheap.

High end professional hot wire cutter with overly dramatic music

Very relevant DIY foam cutting of an airfoil (very long video)
BASEline - Wingsuit Flight Computer

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platypii

I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm highly skeptical of this idea, especially since you haven't even addressed how deployment would work. But...

You should check out "hot wire foam cutting". There are super cheap tools available on amazon so you can do manual sculpting of foam. There are automatic hot wire cutting machines that can make them. Also some clever DIY hacks to make it cheap.

High end professional hot wire cutter with overly dramatic music

Very relevant DIY foam cutting of an airfoil (very long video)



Yes, that's how I built my 2008 leg wing prototype, hot wire foam cutting. I even bought a constant-current power source for that, since with constant-voltage, wires burn quickly. Also built a variable cross section setup for cutting arm wing, since the root profile and tip profile are of different sizes, cut the hard foam prototype of the arm wing (for size and usability evaluation, not for use; real wing will have no rigid parts); but haven't finished the work back then.

Deployment shouldn't be a problem, usability tests showed that foam wing is easy to compress/fold.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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LeeroyJenkins

*********This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever...

We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic.

Also can you posts the equation for lift?

I hope someone will find this realistic and start working on it. Me, may take several months, or even years, because I have so many other things to do in WS arena.

L = W*Kl*V^2?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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yuri_base

************This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever...

We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic.

Also can you posts the equation for lift?

I hope someone will find this realistic and start working on it. Me, may take several months, or even years, because I have so many other things to do in WS arena.

L = W*Kl*V^2?

It that one of your equations, or just funky variables?

Quote

f Cl and Cd are matched



Now I am on a computer. The equations of lift for an airfoil is:

L=Cl*A*0.5*p*V^2

L=lift
Cl=Coefficient of lift
A= Area
p=Density
V=Velocity

What you said previously is false. Area is very important for lift. High Cl doesn't do anything if there isn't enough area.


Also, what other Wingsuit stuff do you have to do? This is your thing. Second if the foam is easily bendable I bet it will deform under load.

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Proposed initial roadmap of distributed, open source, "blockchained" work on 'The Machine'*:

1. Design universal connections between foam wings (wrapped with glued fabric) and mounting platforms on legs and belly, so that any wing built anywhere by anyone, will connect with platforms built by anyone else. The connections must allow some range (up to 30 degrees) of AoI adjustment.

2. Build rough prototypes of wings (quality, neatness, exact airfoil profile don't matter). The overall planform should be similar to "old" suits such as V-2.

3. Test the prototype with AoI=0, flying it in flat body position, just like you would fly a traditional wingsuit. Confirm L/D of at least 2.5 by using vane with accelerometer or vane with Pitot.

4. Experiment with AoI and "wingmonauti" body position to study the effect on L/D and Kl, Kd.

5. Try to achieve L/D = 3.0 just by AoI alone.

6. What we're after is L/D of at least 10% higher than that of traditional mattresses, so 3.3 and up. My hope is we can achieve at least 3.6, a 20% improvement. (I already wrote here many times what such an improvement would mean for wingsuiting.)

7. If we can achieve 3.0+, the project is a proven success. Halle-effing-luja!

8. If we can't achieve even 3.0, the project is a partial failure, but at least, it enables anyone with moderate DIY skills to build a wing system for themselves, for 1/10th of the cost of a mainstream wingsuit.

9. Even if we fail, let alone if we don't, the experience and data we get will be invaluable for wingsuit R&D.

10. As soon as someone else, not just me, surrounded by skeptics, joins the effort and starts "mining", and someone else, and someone else... we are a proven distributed, global, networked, democratic, "blockchained" wingsuit "Company", we can produce real results and be a global force to be respected and create products that rival or complement products of mainstream WSMs. We're the ones that can Make Wingsuiting Great Again.

So, let's roll up our sleeves and do it! Welcome my sons... welcome to... THE MACHINE


* 'The Machine' is not forced upon anybody; everyone is encouraged to propose and work on their own designs and ideas. 'The Machine' is just my vision; you don't have to accept it, invent your own! Every effort is welcome. And not only in WS design - instrumentation, software, even math - show us what you've got, share your ideas!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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yuri_base

Proposed initial roadmap of distributed, open source, "blockchained" work on 'The Machine'*:

1. Design universal connections between foam wings (wrapped with glued fabric) and mounting platforms on legs and belly, so that any wing built anywhere by anyone, will connect with platforms built by anyone else. The connections must allow some range (up to 30 degrees) of AoI adjustment.

2. Build rough prototypes of wings (quality, neatness, exact airfoil profile don't matter). The overall planform should be similar to "old" suits such as V-2.

3. Test the prototype with AoI=0, flying it in flat body position, just like you would fly a traditional wingsuit. Confirm L/D of at least 2.5 by using vane with accelerometer or vane with Pitot.

4. Experiment with AoI and "wingmonauti" body position to study the effect on L/D and Kl, Kd.

5. Try to achieve L/D = 3.0 just by AoI alone.

6. What we're after is L/D of at least 10% higher than that of traditional mattresses, so 3.3 and up. My hope is we can achieve at least 3.6, a 20% improvement. (I already wrote here many times what such an improvement would mean for wingsuiting.)

7. If we can achieve 3.0+, the project is a proven success. Halle-effing-luja!

8. If we can't achieve even 3.0, the project is a partial failure, but at least, it enables anyone with moderate DIY skills to build a wing system for themselves, for 1/10th of the cost of a mainstream wingsuit.

9. Even if we fail, let alone if we don't, the experience and data we get will be invaluable for wingsuit R&D.

10. As soon as someone else, not just me, surrounded by skeptics, joins the effort and starts "mining", and someone else, and someone else... we are a proven distributed, global, networked, democratic, "blockchained" wingsuit "Company", we can produce real results and be a global force to be respected and create products that rival or complement products of mainstream WSMs. We're the ones that can Make Wingsuiting Great Again.

So, let's roll up our sleeves and do it! Welcome my sons... welcome to... THE MACHINE


* 'The Machine' is not forced upon anybody; everyone is encouraged to propose and work on their own designs and ideas. 'The Machine' is just my vision; you don't have to accept it, invent your own! Every effort is welcome. And not only in WS design - instrumentation, software, even math - show us what you've got, share your ideas!



Dud, can you please stop with the s crypto references? You sound like the grandpa trying to be hip.

Also you might have missed my last post as it looks like we posted at the same time.

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LeeroyJenkins

***************This approximately illustrates surface area lost (blue) from a mattress to The Machine. The overall wingloading will be higher by a factor of about 1.5 (?). Which means, if Cl and Cd are matched, the speed will be ~20% higher. (Since wingloading and speed in aerodynamic force are in the combination V^2/WL, speed is proportional to square root of wingloading). Mattresses will look like slow boats in the sky compared to the speed boat, The Machine! However, if matching BASE starts is desired, high-Cl airfoils need to be used to compensate for increase in WL (if the ratio Cl/WL stays the same, BASE start is the same), in this case speeds will be comparable.

The beauty of the modular wing system that the airfoils can be swapped to meet the desired goals.



That suit would not generate as much lift if the coefficients were the same.

For given weight, in sustained flight lift and drag depend only on L/D (been discussed already: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4896684#4896684), so if we achieve the same L/D as that of a mattress, L and D are the same, it's just the speed will be higher due to higher WL (just like in canopies). And I have all reasons to believe that The Machine will achieve at least 3.0 (but the ultimate goal is even higher L/D). Even if initially The Machine was made as a foam replica of Vampire-2, that's already L/D=2.5. Reducing drag from the body by placing it in "wingmonauti" configuration to relative wind, and having high-lift airfoil profiles for both arm and leg wings, much cleaner flow over the leg wing, and less drag thanks to sharp trailing edges and no pillowing, getting extra 20% should be no brainer. Then, we'll have the lead over WSMs in aerodynamic finesse - the most difficult thing to improve. But the burden to do this is on us, so we need to start doing something, all of us, whatever everybody is best at. We need to start mining our sweet "cryptocurrency" - L/D "coin". We need to change the course of history, we can't sit in this CoW swamp forever...

We don't need to do anything because what you want is unrealistic.

Also can you posts the equation for lift?

I hope someone will find this realistic and start working on it. Me, may take several months, or even years, because I have so many other things to do in WS arena.

L = W*Kl*V^2?

It that one of your equations, or just funky variables?

Quote

f Cl and Cd are matched



Now I am on a computer. The equations of lift for an airfoil is:

L=Cl*A*0.5*p*V^2

L=lift
Cl=Coefficient of lift
A= Area
p=Density
V=Velocity

What you said previously is false. Area is very important for lift. High Cl doesn't do anything if there isn't enough area.


Also, what other Wingsuit stuff do you have to do? This is your thing. Second if the foam is easily bendable I bet it will deform under load.

Yes, L=Cl*A*0.5*p*V^2 and L=W*Kl*V^2 are equivalent, by the definition of Kl.

Cl, S, and V^2 enter the lift equation as a product; so to produce the same amount of lift with the same Cl, but smaller S, V automagically increases in square root proportion - the suit flies faster.

I have tons of stuff to do in theory/software/invention area, I dug my old notes and there's just depressingly overwhelming amount of ideas that I totally forgot about or neglected for years. I need over 9000 man-years of work just for these!

Foam wing, once it's cut from the block, easily bends in half, but maintains its shape when uniformly stretched between profile ends. Yes, it will bend a bit, like an arc, but the airfoil profile itself will be more or less maintained. Potentially, we could study the deformations under air pressure and compensate for them by cutting a distorted profile that will be pushed by air into perfect profile. We'll have to see how it all plays out.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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LeeroyJenkins

***Proposed initial roadmap of distributed, open source, "blockchained" work on 'The Machine'*:

1. Design universal connections between foam wings (wrapped with glued fabric) and mounting platforms on legs and belly, so that any wing built anywhere by anyone, will connect with platforms built by anyone else. The connections must allow some range (up to 30 degrees) of AoI adjustment.

2. Build rough prototypes of wings (quality, neatness, exact airfoil profile don't matter). The overall planform should be similar to "old" suits such as V-2.

3. Test the prototype with AoI=0, flying it in flat body position, just like you would fly a traditional wingsuit. Confirm L/D of at least 2.5 by using vane with accelerometer or vane with Pitot.

4. Experiment with AoI and "wingmonauti" body position to study the effect on L/D and Kl, Kd.

5. Try to achieve L/D = 3.0 just by AoI alone.

6. What we're after is L/D of at least 10% higher than that of traditional mattresses, so 3.3 and up. My hope is we can achieve at least 3.6, a 20% improvement. (I already wrote here many times what such an improvement would mean for wingsuiting.)

7. If we can achieve 3.0+, the project is a proven success. Halle-effing-luja!

8. If we can't achieve even 3.0, the project is a partial failure, but at least, it enables anyone with moderate DIY skills to build a wing system for themselves, for 1/10th of the cost of a mainstream wingsuit.

9. Even if we fail, let alone if we don't, the experience and data we get will be invaluable for wingsuit R&D.

10. As soon as someone else, not just me, surrounded by skeptics, joins the effort and starts "mining", and someone else, and someone else... we are a proven distributed, global, networked, democratic, "blockchained" wingsuit "Company", we can produce real results and be a global force to be respected and create products that rival or complement products of mainstream WSMs. We're the ones that can Make Wingsuiting Great Again.

So, let's roll up our sleeves and do it! Welcome my sons... welcome to... THE MACHINE


* 'The Machine' is not forced upon anybody; everyone is encouraged to propose and work on their own designs and ideas. 'The Machine' is just my vision; you don't have to accept it, invent your own! Every effort is welcome. And not only in WS design - instrumentation, software, even math - show us what you've got, share your ideas!



Dud, can you please stop with the s crypto references? You sound like the grandpa trying to be hip.

Also you might have missed my last post as it looks like we posted at the same time.

Well, I am a grandpa trying to be hip. Sorry... So, let's mine some L/D, shall we?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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Guys, if this is not clear yet to someone: this is not another "My little project" where one guy works on something and everybody just watches with popcorn. If you continue doing nothing and just waiting for me to build something, then most likely in another 20 years from now, in 2038, we'll be in the same state of CoW as now, and we'll have the same mattresses as now. This is YOUR project, OUR project. We ALL need to contribute and start doing something. NOW.

If you're interested in building a foam wing system, then watch the DIY foam cutting video posted above,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlQZFib8PiM

and start doing it! It's not rocket science. I've done it, and my hands grow from my ass. (This ought to be a sufficient proof that anyone can do it.)

Initially, I used a light dimmer as a variable voltage source. Light dimmer can be purchased in any home improvement store and it's cheap:

https://www.homedepot.com/b/Electrical-Wiring-Devices-Light-Controls-Dimmers/N-5yc1vZc34i

Then you need a cutting bow (can easily be made from wood sticks) and wire. Nichrome wire is best, but guitar/piano wire works, too.

But after burning many many wires, I decided to invest in a constant-current power source, about 100 bucks. Similar to this:

[inline ConstantCurrentPowerSource.jpeg]

With constant voltage, like with dimmer, if a "weak spot" appears in the wire, it gets hotter and hotter and burns; with constant current, the temperature is constant along the wire, there are no "hot spots", the wire lasts long time.

For profiles on which the hot wire slides, I used this special temperature-resistant material I forgot the name of (maybe it's mentioned in the video, I didn't watch it yet).

I don't have all these things with me right now and it will take months before I can show what I have. But just start doing your own research into this, it's simple, believe me, and when you finally cut an airfoil with it, it feels like you engineered something, vs. sewing something. That's the idea - let sewers sew, and us - engineers, scientists - engineer.

For initial experiments with foam cutting and getting used to it, I recommend hard closed cell foam, like insulation/packaging foam (https://www.thefoamfactory.com/closedcellfoam/polystyrene.html) found in home improvement stores. But for real wings, we need open cell foam (by mistake, I called it closed cell in one of the first posts about it in this thread):

https://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/opencellfoam.html

Can be purchased either online (they ship it in vacuum plastic bag so it takes much less volume) or in crafts stores like Michaels and even Walmart (sewing & crafts section).

ZP fabric, or Parapack, or fabric/material of your choice, can be wrapped around finished wings and glued to the foam with upholstery adhesive (home improvement stores). Fabric will not only provide smooth surface, but provide strength and means of attaching wings to body platforms.

Do it, do it, do it...

The Great Wingsuit Revolution of 2018 has begun, don't remain in paralysis like a stooge worshipper! GWSR-2018 wants YOU, NOW!!!

[inline GWSR2018WantsYOU.jpg]
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

GWSR2018WantsYOU.jpg

ConstantCurrentPowerSource.jpeg

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This is the foam that I purchased for the wing system:

https://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/LUX-HQ.html

https://www.thefoamfactory.com/tech/Lux-HQTech.html

5" thick, 82x24", $71. Enough for the whole system, with some spare for practice. Good balance between firmness and foldability.

The green or white/yellowish foam from Michaels, I think, if less resilient, lower quality, but should be good enough for early prototypes.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
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High L/D is not only important for long flights; new WS BASE flights that are impossible now with L/D=3.0 (e.g. no LZs within reachable now distance; all trees); insane flare (power management), going up much higher than currently possible. It's a crucial aspect for powered WS flight! This is because for level flight with engines, the thrust required is equal to weight divided by L/D:

T = W/(L/D)

Engines and fuel tanks reduce L/D, so suppose for modern mattress, L/D with engines is 2.0, then thrust required is half the weight! If we increase L/D by making the wing system more efficient, there's less thrust required for level flight.

This is especially important for electric duct fan (EDF) engines which so far don't have as much power as jet engines. Maybe someday we'll be flying on electric power, but we need to push L/D as high as possible!

The future of human flights starts now. From YOU.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
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It's funny when you look at mainstream WSMs' web sites and facebooks, and understand what's really going on, how they are all proclaiming great victories at competitions, always taking gold! Every one of them, always, takes gold, wins 1st place! :D ("LOOK AT US!!!") There's enough competitions and sub-disciplines in them, and only 3 main WSMs that they can always cherry-pick the one where they won. This creates the impression - for the weak-minded - that they are cutting edge in WS R&D, they achieved huge progress! Well, if one analyzed the results, year to year, you will see that the absolute results are not really improving that much, and most of them can be chalked up to the ever increasing pilot skill, not to actual improvements in wingsuit performance. It's all just the same WSMs reshuffling in the tables of fluctuating results, but they can always pick one where they won. It's all just Brownian motion, where one or the other molecule will "jump" higher than some other.

Same with R&D. "Oh look at our pretty 3D-model of a wing on computer screen! [It's still an atrocious 0.5 aspect ratio, and the profile in flight of a cloth wing is severely distorted anyway.] Look at our smooth leading edge! [It's still too blunt to have a nice airfoil, we need leading edge extending 5, even more inches forward!] Look at our Michelin-like track suit! [I'm still waiting, 13 years later, for any WSM to release the new class of flying gear, based on a trivial idea - wingsuit without arm wings, half-wingsuit, WS/2, speed demon, with optimal L/D~1.4 for fastest speed.] Look at all our videos, with all cool/hardcore flying! [Most of it is possible even with old suits of 10-15 years ago; the rest is an automagic consequence of sewing bigger body mattresses. Patrick de Gayardon, if he stayed alive, probably could have compressed the whole 20 years of small->big progression in just a couple of years.]"

It's all bluff. It's all BS. It's all Godzilla Marketing. It's all egos and #lookatme's. It's all just brownian noise.

MWGA!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
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Yuri, you aren’t competing with modern wingsuits. You aren’t even making a modern wingsuit. You’re making something highly specialized that's closer to jetman. Every time you bring up mainstream suit manufactures you make yourself seem more and more dilusional. If you want people to give a shit about what you think or say you need to stop doing that. Besides being an engineer I work in politics. Your optics suck. You sound like Kanye or Trump. I’m not trying to attacking you, just giving you some harsh true feedback.

Without building a fixed wing structure the aspect ratio will always suck because humans are shaped like a T. You keep complaining about MWS marketing and you post lies in this thread. Lies that people may actually believe. Increasing Cl and decreasing Cd will not make a suit fly faster and further if the ratio of that increase with the reduction in surface area is not proportional. you can have nice perfect smooth wings that won't mean anything because they do not generate enough lift.

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LeeroyJenkins

Without building a fixed wing structure the aspect ratio will always suck because humans are shaped like a T.



Sure it will always suck, but it will suck less. Here, we have approx. 3:1 aspect ratio for the arm wing (tip to tip) and about 1.5-2:1 for the leg wing. Vs. 0.5-0.7:1 for one "flying squirrel" wing. Any aerodynamicist will take 3:1 wing over 0.5:1 any day!

[inline SurfaceAreaReduction.png]

Quote

you can have nice perfect smooth wings that won't mean anything because they do not generate enough lift.



We need to build it to find out. We can't just dismiss it outright. Small wings do generate lift, somehow my Prodigy and my Phantom-1 supported 260lbs of this meatbomb for hundreds of flights...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

SurfaceAreaReduction.png

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yuri_base

***Without building a fixed wing structure the aspect ratio will always suck because humans are shaped like a T.



Sure it will always suck, but it will suck less. Here, we have approx. 3:1 aspect ratio for the arm wing (tip to tip) and about 1.5-2:1 for the leg wing. Vs. 0.5-0.7:1 for one "flying squirrel" wing. Any aerodynamicist will take 3:1 wing over 0.5:1 any day!



Quote

you can have nice perfect smooth wings that won't mean anything because they do not generate enough lift.



We need to build it to find out. We can't just dismiss it outright. Small wings do generate lift, somehow my Prodigy and my Phantom-1 supported 260lbs of this meatbomb for hundreds of flights...

Of course they will provide lift. They will
However provide less lift. Any inovation in sutes needs to me wildly applicable and increase lift. You need to be able to fill a plane with them before you can claim you revolutionized the market.

In your picture how are you going to support the trailing edge?

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LeeroyJenkins

******Without building a fixed wing structure the aspect ratio will always suck because humans are shaped like a T.



Sure it will always suck, but it will suck less. Here, we have approx. 3:1 aspect ratio for the arm wing (tip to tip) and about 1.5-2:1 for the leg wing. Vs. 0.5-0.7:1 for one "flying squirrel" wing. Any aerodynamicist will take 3:1 wing over 0.5:1 any day!



Quote

you can have nice perfect smooth wings that won't mean anything because they do not generate enough lift.



We need to build it to find out. We can't just dismiss it outright. Small wings do generate lift, somehow my Prodigy and my Phantom-1 supported 260lbs of this meatbomb for hundreds of flights...

Of course they will provide lift. They will
However provide less lift. Any inovation in sutes needs to me wildly applicable and increase lift. You need to be able to fill a plane with them before you can claim you revolutionized the market.

In your picture how are you going to support the trailing edge?

We don't need to fill the planes and we don't need to revolutionize the market, we need to revolutionize the wingsuit design and push the limits of performance. We don't need anyone's approval or market share. What we do need is L/D of at least 3.3. Whether a large number of such wing systems is built in mass production or just 5 built by enthusiasts, doesn't matter if we're able to achieve higher performance than what's achievable by mattresses. And anyone can build one for 200 bucks or less.

The trailing edge actually doesn't get that much of pressure differential:

[inline AirfoilPressureDistribution.jpg]

That's why in inflatable suits, where the surface area gets smaller and smaller towards trailing edge, the internal pressure, with the aid of mild stretching by arms and legs, is sufficient to support the edge. Same with foam wing: foam firmness + stretching of the trailing edge (which will be finished as a stitch on the wrapping fabric) should be sufficient. We can probably even extend the trailing edge of the leg wing past the feet, as in mattresses.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
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iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

AirfoilPressureDistribution.jpg

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If even just one dude in the world builds a wing system with L/D = 3.6 (20% improvement) and opens one of many big WS BASE jumps in the 1500-3000m+ range that are impossible with the current L/D = 3.0 (because of nowhere to land, or reachable LZ being within national park or wilderness - Mount Whitney comes to mind, that's potentially an almost 10000ft jump if one can fly all the way to the valley), that's 0.6km extra for 1km of altitude - then it'll be like a solar eclipse when all birds suddenly stop chirping, same will happen to all naysayers. And it will be silly and comical to not to admit that this system is a great achievement. The Stooges will, of course, not admit it and will try to look unimpressed and keep their cool. This will only make it more comical and make them look like Dumb & Dumber. Same as comical situation these days when they've never used L/D instrumentation available for years now, and they never built a new class of flying gear - half-wingsuit - which some dude was openly doing for years at different DZs, and they saw it and even took pics of it. What can I say... Stooges are such stooges. One can only laugh and shake head.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

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