0
yuri_base

Wingsuit research

Recommended Posts

yuri_base


it'll be used mostly for making pretty, self-promotion pictures



I'll let those Formula1 teams know that they should stop using wind tunnels to fine-tune their aerodynamics. I'm sure they will be grateful to save the $.

In more sophisticated aeronautical engineering fields (eg- not wingsuiting) there is good uses for all these tools: instrumentation, CFD, and wind tunnels. Instrumentation might be great for measuring the absolute L/D of different suits, but if I was trying to design a better suit, tunnel and CFD will allow for much faster iteration. To be later validated by instrumentation.
BASEline - Wingsuit Flight Computer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
platypii

***
it'll be used mostly for making pretty, self-promotion pictures



I'll let those Formula1 teams know that they should stop using wind tunnels to fine-tune their aerodynamics. I'm sure they will be grateful to save the $.

In more sophisticated aeronautical engineering fields (eg- not wingsuiting) there is good uses for all these tools: instrumentation, CFD, and wind tunnels. Instrumentation might be great for measuring the absolute L/D of different suits, but if I was trying to design a better suit, tunnel and CFD will allow for much faster iteration. To be later validated by instrumentation.

Absolutely. Those researchers don't waste $$, they use tunnels to do real measurements and real improvements. This hasn't been the case so far in WS world:

Quote

8. WST or research tunnel, in right hands, can provide some scientific data. The problem is, the tunnels so far have been in wrong hands, used not for science, but for self-promotion and pretty pictures, as well as a cash cow as with WST. There are several examples of such use over the years, including the famous Jari Kuosma's pic in the tunnel back in early 2000's, set at AoA of about 60 degrees, with L/D of probably 0.5, LOL. It will take many more years before we see real science done in WST.



This is because WS industry in the past 20 years has been monopolized not by aerodynamicists and scientists, but by tailors and salesmen. I hope things will change soon and a new WSM (or several) will appear who will finally wake up the CoW and ride it to new amazing products, not the same mattresses we've had for a decade now.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You’re right, i wouldn’t pay 1400 euros an hour either! I’m not sure which wingsuit tunnel you priced out. ;)

I think last time i purchased time it worked out to about half the cost you mentioned.

It may be more fun to go jump off mountains in Italy. But it won’t push the wingsuit industry anywhere and it won’t make you much better of a wingsuit pilot (comparatively speaking to the tunnel).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BryanCampau

it won’t make you much better of a wingsuit pilot (comparatively speaking to the tunnel).



Quote

learn much much more about real wingsuit dynamics, like the strategies for: fastest start, longest flight for short-altitude jumps, longest flight for long-altitude jumps, fastest speed, proximity, agility, corkscrews, and even WS BASE acrobatics



To add: 100+ exit practices, 100+ proximity practices, 100+ energy management practices, 100+ flares, 100+ deployments, 100+ landings in BASE environment, 100+ pack practices, 100+ hikes.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BryanCampau

You’re right, i wouldn’t pay 1400 euros an hour either! I’m not sure which wingsuit tunnel you priced out. ;)

I think last time i purchased time it worked out to about half the cost you mentioned.



Am I talking about the right tunnel or there's a "cheap" one somewhere else?

https://flywingsuit.se/product/proflyers-start-up-pac-60-min/

1430€ = $1656 for 30 minutes in the harness and 60 without (with 60 out of total 90 minutes, are coached)

What can one learn in an hour, besides moving a couple of meters in either direction and useless barrel rolls? Why would a BASE jumper want to pay 1656 dollars to fly at L/D of 1.67 at slow airspeed? And not have a whole month in the Alps/Dolomites instead?
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yuri_base

***it won’t make you much better of a wingsuit pilot (comparatively speaking to the tunnel).



Quote

learn much much more about real wingsuit dynamics, like the strategies for: fastest start, longest flight for short-altitude jumps, longest flight for long-altitude jumps, fastest speed, proximity, agility, corkscrews, and even WS BASE acrobatics




To add: 100+ exit practices, 100+ proximity practices, 100+ energy management practices, 100+ flares, 100+ deployments, 100+ landings in BASE environment, 100+ pack practices, 100+ hikes.


Yuri, WTF do you want?

No matter what is brought up you don't like it unless it's someone agreeing with you WSE which so far has been what, like 3 people?

You complain about the ws tunnel, you complain about studies in university tunnels, you complain that no research happens, you complain that everything that has happen wasn't actually research, you complain that no engineers design these suits, you complain that the engineering that did go into it was only for pretty pictures. You complain no one believes your equation, you just complain.

rs_560x234-140813172904-what_do_you_want_the_notebook_gif.bmp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
At the end of the days it’s all about priorities.

Long term, big picture - wingsuiting will gain a tremendous amount from the tunnel both in pilot skills and suit technology/advancement.

Short term - it may be more appealing to say fuck it and enjoy the current suits in the sky or base environment but still progress at a comfortable pace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins

WTF do you want?



I thought I made it pretty clear, or one could easily infer it from my posts.

Here's what I want, ever since I started wingsuiting and writing in this forum in 2005 (with a gap here from 2010 through 2018 when I voluntarily withdrew myself from this forum after a short-term ban):

- I want the progress in WSI (wingsuit industry) to be as intense as it possibly could be, like progress in most other industries - computers, mobiles, airplanes, cars, etc.

- I want that we ALL have the maximum joy and fun of flying the most advanced wingsuits/wingsystems that are possible, not the same mattresses of 10 years ago

- I want that in N (any number) years that anyone has in wingsuit flying, we are delighted with the most interesting things possible in that span; I don't want to see essentially one new thing in a decade

- I want wingsuits to be built to the highest standards of strength and longevity in skydiving/BASE industry, with rigs and canopies lasting easily 15-20 years and thousands of jumps; I don't want to experience an armwing zipper separating on a proximity jump or suit tearing apart after only 5 jumps because of no reinforcement tapes and use of flimsy materials and poor structural design

- I want wingsuits to be more affordable; I don't want the price to hike when a new WSM is born, the price must be determined by labor and R&D cost, with a reasonable profit margin, but should not be increased if the costs stay the same, but more WSMs slice the user base pie into smaller slices (similar to how the price for reserve repack hiked up when FAA increased the cycle from 120 days to 180)

- I want WSMs to be as lean in their staff as possible; I don't want to feed the whole army of sponsored pilots out of my pocket

- I want to see new WSMs born by engineers and scientists, not by tailors and salesmen

- I want when a new suit/system is introduced, to see their technical data - max L/D, sample polar curves, max sustained horizontal speed, min sustained vertical speed, etc. (for the same factory pilot)

- I want that upgrades are accompanied by detailed, technical descriptions of "before and after", for example, "we increased the thickness of the airfoil, because we found from precise performance measurements that max L/D increased this way by 5%; here's the old airfoil profile, and here's the new one"

- I want the BS marketing, aka Godzilla Marketing, drop fucking dead; enough already

- I want any update to existing line or a new model to be substantial, making real sense to upgrade from the older model; I don't want what is the equivalent of 0.0.1 version upgrade in software (fixing minor bugs, or minor improvements) to be roared out as a groundbreaking upgrade

- I want that we have WS-specific instrumentation, like any pilots - jet, passenger airplane, ultralight, HG, PG pilots do

- I want that WSMs use WS instrumentation in R&D and back their claims of improvements with real data

(ok, if I continue writing what I want, the Internet will choke on this giant blob of data passing through fibers, so I'll stop for now)

I already wrote my vision of WSI history from 1998 through 2018, so I won't repeat what we have instead.

We're stuck at this:

[inline WhatWeHaveToday.jpg]

while we could be flying THIS:

[inline WhatWeAreMissing.jpg]

...TODAY
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

WhatWeHaveToday.jpg

WhatWeAreMissing.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
unclecharlie95

Yuri, only one solution buddy. Make your own ws company.



Nope. Not interested. I actually have a WS-related LLC, specializing in software for wingsuits and theoretical research. This is my specialization, this is what I'm best at, this is my contribution to WSI progress.

Only one solution: for someone else, both smart, well educated, and good at business and managing people, to start a new WS company that will not start by copying the same mattresses, but start fresh by building something different from the ground up. (One possibility is the modular foam wing system I mentioned.) And make other WSMs to look like The Stooges by contrast. (Just like Elon Musk with reusable Falcon made Russian rockets outdated and losing launch contracts.)

Elon Musk of WSI, where art thou?...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yuri_base

***Yuri, only one solution buddy. Make your own ws company.



Nope. Not interested. I actually have a WS-related LLC, specializing in software for wingsuits and theoretical research. This is my specialization, this is what I'm best at, this is my contribution to WSI progress.

Only one solution: for someone else, both smart, well educated, and good at business and managing people, to start a new WS company that will not start by copying the same mattresses, but start fresh by building something different from the ground up. (One possibility is the modular foam wing system I mentioned.) And make other WSMs to look like The Stooges by contrast. (Just like Elon Musk with reusable Falcon made Russian rockets outdated and losing launch contracts.)

Elon Musk of WSI, where art thou?...

Yuri, the limiting factor of wingsuit design in the airframe and the need to be stuffed in an airplane.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins

Yuri, the limiting factor of wingsuit design in the airframe and the need to be stuffed in an airplane.



No doubt. Just like the limiting factor in car design is road infrastructure and garage dimensions, and human body size as well. (can't make a car that fits in a pocket) But one can have a PT Cruiser in their garage, or one can have a Ferrari.

I think that the separate wing planform has not been researched thoroughly (WSMs never even tried changing AoI, only some guy at the Ranch with hands growing from his ass, did, by sewing in new cable tabs on his P-1 and V-2) and has some growth potential. With foam modular design, unlimited experimentation with airfoils, sizes, profile thickness, stepped airfoils, even high-lift devices, AoI, trim, etc. is possible - by everyone, with basic materials and tools, no significant sewing skills necessary.

It's no wonder that airplanes that fly well also look beautiful. (Our eyes have a built-in evaluator of aerodynamic perfection.) Mattresses look fugly. We've got used to their look starting 10 years ago, but they are fugly. Separate wing planform just looks more aerodynamic, like that jet fighter above, vs. a mattress.

It's not about the size of the garage, it's what is in it...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, what prevented WSMs all these years from making a "half-WS", or WS/2 - leg wing-only speed demons? I've been doing this, on on and off basis, since 2005 (Prodigy pants/legwing; then V-2 cut in half; then V-4 with armwings and butt deflector cut off). We would have an additional category of flying now: tracksuits, onesies/hybrids, half-WS, WS. Possibly, new speed records, new possibilities in proximity tracking.

https://youtu.be/jF7K-7hWrkE

I'm opening a new WS company, folks. It's called ACME Cutting Edge. Bring me your wingsuit, and for a low fee of $100, I will professionally cut the arm wings off using my fingernail scissors, and you get a completely different flying machine, a speed demon, a rocket, a hypersonic missile. Which can be flown either in tracking body position or with arm (one or both) stretched forward, like a Superman.

Can anyone find a picture or video of me jumping my black half-V4 taken by Dan Dupuis at Perris ca. 2015 (maybe, 2016), with "Superman" flying style (one or two arms forward)? I'm not good with all this Facegramitter stuff, and it just throws the login at me, which I say "fuck no" to.

The opportunities, the innovation WSMs, Da Stooges missed in all these years are just unbelievable. I mean, how hard is it to tell the sewer, "when it comes to arm wings, just don't make them"? And get a completely different class of flying gear? Or better yet, make a wingsuit with full detachable arm wings, so it can be converted to WS/2 and back to WS easily, without paying $100 to a destructive ACME pro?

Fast forward 2005 to October 2018, they say it's coming soon. About fucking time, LOL!

Again, this is not about "look at me me me" and "look, I'm the smartest guy in the world" - it's about ALL OF US seeing and enjoying more of interesting things, more variety, more cutting edge performance, etc. We are ALL being, essentially, being robbed of all this by... The CoW.

Will the state of CoW finally end in 2018, like Great Depression ended some day? It all depends on US - mounting pressure on existing WSMs (although I think it's futile, they proved by 1-2 decades that they are invincible), starting new WSMs, and just by DIY projects available and affordable for everyone interested.

MWGA!!!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yuri_base

***Yuri, the limiting factor of wingsuit design in the airframe and the need to be stuffed in an airplane.



No doubt. Just like the limiting factor in car design is road infrastructure and garage dimensions, and human body size as well. (can't make a car that fits in a pocket) But one can have a PT Cruiser in their garage, or one can have a Ferrari.

I think that the separate wing planform has not been researched thoroughly (WSMs never even tried changing AoI, only some guy at the Ranch with hands growing from his ass, did, by sewing in new cable tabs on his P-1 and V-2) and has some growth potential. With foam modular design, unlimited experimentation with airfoils, sizes, profile thickness, stepped airfoils, even high-lift devices, AoI, trim, etc. is possible - by everyone, with basic materials and tools, no significant sewing skills necessary.

It's no wonder that airplanes that fly well also look beautiful. (Our eyes have a built-in evaluator of aerodynamic perfection.) Mattresses look fugly. We've got used to their look starting 10 years ago, but they are fugly. Separate wing planform just looks more aerodynamic, like that jet fighter above, vs. a mattress.

It's not about the size of the garage, it's what is in it...

It's so obvious your not an engineer and aren't good at building physical things. As you have stated many times. That isn't an insult, I wouldn't expect a physicist to be on the same level as an engineer.

Modular foam- how are you going to structurally support the foam leg wing? How are you going to fit that hard foam in a full otter? or a 182? How are you going to carry that foam up the side of a mountain?

AoI- How are your going to structurally support that?

Trim- this has been done and is ever evolving.

Profile- this has also been done.

You don't need to answer those questions and I don't expect you too. It would be out of character.

So again, the limiting factor is airframe size and the need to smash the suit into an airplane, that's not even to mention safety. There is a trade off between surface area and aspect ratio. If you want a better AR there would need to be two wings. To keep up with surface area the two wings would need to be bigger. The bigger wings would need to be supported but they can't because they would need to be ram air for the above mentioned reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Before T-planform that is carbon-copied by every WSMs these days, starting from early 2010's, arm wings were separate from the leg wing, with the trailing edge going from the end of the gripper to about waist line. And these suits were difficult to fly, they required a lot of strength to stretch the wing, especially the trailing edge. T came and it became much, much easier to fly. Why?

Make a simple experiment in trivial mechanics. Tie a chain to an anchor on the wall, attach a substantial (10 kilos) weight to the middle of the chain and pull on the other end. Try to make the chain as straight as possible. It will be very hard, require a lot of tension force! Now, make the chain sag naturally, like a suspension bridge. It's now much much easier to hold the weight!

Same with T-planform - the trailing edge arc from the gripper to legs makes this "suspension bridge", much reducing the effort to tension it.

Another thing that made T's easier to fly is the increased pressure force. Not pressure alone (although it also increased with large scoop inlets placed on the bottom), but total force! Force from pressure is equal to force times surface area. Since T has a long and thick profile next to the body that runs from shoulder to legs, the surface area the pressure can push on (and thus offload some of the effort to hold the wings) increased. Wingsuit got easier and less tiring to fly.

Just some Mechanics 101 for ya all, don't think that all that came as a result of some amazing work of aerospace engineers!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
yuri_base

Before T-planform that is carbon-copied by every WSMs these days, starting from early 2010's, arm wings were separate from the leg wing, with the trailing edge going from the end of the gripper to about waist line. And these suits were difficult to fly, they required a lot of strength to stretch the wing, especially the trailing edge. T came and it became much, much easier to fly. Why?

Make a simple experiment in trivial mechanics. Tie a chain to an anchor on the wall, attach a substantial (10 kilos) weight to the middle of the chain and pull on the other end. Try to make the chain as straight as possible. It will be very hard, require a lot of tension force! Now, make the chain sag naturally, like a suspension bridge. It's now much much easier to hold the weight!

Same with T-planform - the trailing edge arc from the gripper to legs makes this "suspension bridge", much reducing the effort to tension it.

Another thing that made T's easier to fly is the increased pressure force. Not pressure alone (although it also increased with large scoop inlets placed on the bottom), but total force! Force from pressure is equal to force times surface area. Since T has a long and thick profile next to the body that runs from shoulder to legs, the surface area the pressure can push on (and thus offload some of the effort to hold the wings) increased. Wingsuit got easier and less tiring to fly.

Just some Mechanics 101 for ya, don't think that all that came as a result of some amazing work of aerospace engineers!



You're telling me that a swift or hatch is harder to fly than a freak or CR, because they have split wings?

Also, those suits have less surface area, different trim, and the same AoI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins

Modular foam- how are you going to structurally support the foam leg wing?



Foam leg wing is a trapezoid shape, with real airfoil profile, with leading edge between the knees (just below) and trailing edge at the ankles or bottoms of shoes. It is attached to lower legs with belts or quick detach mechanism, e.g. plastic platforms attached to lower legs with straps, the leg wing attaches to platforms with some mechanism (in my 2008 leg wing prototype, it was simply strong zippers).

Quote

How are you going to fit that hard foam in a full otter? or a 182? How are you going to carry that foam up the side of a mountain?



Nota bene: when I talk "foam", I mean high-quality, closed cell polyurethane foam used for seats in auto industry, furniture, mattresses, etc. Usually blue or green foam. It's compressible and resilient. It's NOT hard white foam that is used for packaging or home insulation, the one that easily snaps and consists of fused small balls. THIS:

[inline high-resilience-foam.jpg]

It's easily compressible (in fact, if one orders it online, they ship it in vacuum plastic bag, taking much less volume than expanded). Yet it holds its shape very well (that's why it's used in furniture).

Fitting it in the plane (provided that it's not filled to the rim with 23 "foam jumpers") should not be a big deal, it's a bit bulkier than a big cloth wingsuit, but not that much. Carrying to the mountain should not be hard, too - it's light (finished system won't be much heavier than a modern mattress suit), but probably will need to be attached to the outside of the stashbag.

Quote

AoI- How are your going to structurally support that?



Both leg and arm wing attachment platforms will have ability to attach wings with variable AoI.

Quote

Trim- this has been done and is ever evolving.



After I pounded it in in WSMs from 2006 to 2007-8, took a lot of resistance, too. See Jeff N's reply quoted from an old thread above.

Quote

Profile- this has also been done.



Yes, but foam allows full profile, not truncated like what we have on the arms, and full, nice, and exposed LE on the leg wing as well. Also, foam allows wing to be completely smooth span-wise, without any "pillowing" and without any rib stitches.

Also, ram inlets are no longer necessary, saving quite a lot of parasitic drag.

Quote

not even to mention safety



I've done useability tests and the foam is easily foldable by the same arm force that takes to reach for the pull in modern mattress. But the arm wings can be made in such a way, as to totally preclude covering the handle.

Quote

To keep up with surface area the two wings would need to be bigger.



No. The goal is not make the suit as big as possible, but as aerodynamic as possible. The goal is max L/D. Although, as a result of reduced surface, the starts in BASE will be slower, as the starts are mostly determined (for a given lift coefficient) by low wingloading. To mitigate this, high-lift airfoil profiles can be used. But again, the ultimate goal is the highest L/D possible, if we can achieve the magic 3.567 (when after BASE exit, the glider achieves infinite glide ratio at some point, all by itself, with no flare), it will be a historic achievement.

Quote

The bigger wings would need to be supported but they can't because they would need to be ram air for the above mentioned reasons.



High-resilience, but firm enough, foam should provide enough support. If the tests show that it's not sufficient, either firmer foam can be used, or maybe some small inlets can ram the air inside channels inside the wings to make them more rigid.

Also, the foam wings will be covered by either ZP or some PVC cloth material, glued on to the foam with upholstery adhesive. This will make the surface smooth and low drag, as well as make the wing somewhat more rigid. And of course, make the attachments of zippers, grippers, etc. to the foam wings possible.
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

high-resilience-foam.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Foam- Between the knees sounds like a very small wing. Also my statements about the foam fitting in a plane still apples. It's already uncomfortable enough to be stuffed in a plane with our cloth suits.

AoI- how are you going to attached them outside the constraints of the human airframe?

Quote

No. The goal is not make the suit as big as possible, but as aerodynamic as possible. The goal is max L/D. Although, as a result of reduced surface, the starts in BASE will be slower, as the starts are mostly determined (for a given lift coefficient) by low wingloading. To mitigate this, high-lift airfoil profiles can be used. But again, the ultimate goal is the highest L/D possible, if we can achieve the magic 3.567 (when after BASE exit, the glider achieves infinite glide ratio at some point, all by itself, with no flare), it will be a historic achievement



It doesn't matter if your wing has a nice L/D if its too small to do anything useful.

Wingsuits have terrible AR and in order to get a better L/D there needs to be a higher AR and wing profile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins

Foam- Between the knees sounds like a very small wing.



Not much smaller than, for example, a V-4 leg wing, which BTW also has an exposed leading edge, just very short. On my V-2, which I have cut in half by a ACME Cutting Edge professional, with waist belt fitted to use as "Superman's pantz", I later cut the leading edge to the knees, making a longer LE and higher AR leg wing. It still flew like a champ, although because there was no reinforcement tape between the knees, the fabric started tearing apart.

Quote

Also my statements about the foam fitting in a plane still apples. It's already uncomfortable enough to be stuffed in a plane with our cloth suits.



Leg wing, when legs are pushed together, folds in half and one doesn't have to sit with legs spread out. Arm wings also should fold easily. Not so much volume as it may seem. One or two such jumpers on a load should not be a problem.

Quote

AoI- how are you going to attached them outside the constraints of the human airframe?



Not outside. On the legs, there's enough range to tilt the wing by up to 15 degrees or so. On the arms, arm wings will be attached to platform on the belly extending to the sides a bit, like a corset. Again, some range for AoI adjustment is possible.

Quote

It doesn't matter if your wing has a nice L/D if its too small to do anything useful.



I've (and many many others) been jumping in tiny Phantom-1, no problem for many sites, for years. If it doesn't start as quickly as low WL mattresses, and site demands it, the solution is obvious - jump this site in a mattress. Right tool for the right job.

Quote

Wingsuits have terrible AR and in order to get a better L/D there needs to be a higher AR and wing profile.



We have to work with what we've got. We'll have to see... But to see, one needs to do. So, I'm inviting everybody interested to start working on these things. Foam is not so expensive, $60-80 will buy a big sheet of thick foam enough for 3 wings. Belts, zippers, some ZP or even PVC fabric - it's not expensive. Foam cuts easily with a hot nichrome wire. The bill of materials, even for a single DIY project, should be within $100-150 range.

MWGA already! Everybody,

Wake up
Grab a brush and put a little (makeup)
Grab a brush and put a little

(Massive Attack, Chop Suey!)

:)
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, with a physicist/programmer and a mechanical engineer already actively involved in brainstorming, we already have a new, unofficial, WS company. This is our "only one solution". The community, open source, global, distributed, indestructible - like a blockchain - WS company. Perhaps we can call it ACME Cutting Edge or ACME Bird like a sign on the box on the right in this scene: https://i.imgur.com/EhiLz8f.jpg

Or maybe simply "Wing Systems, Worldwide".

"Hiring" aerospace engineers, mechanical engineers, scientists, people of any profession, foam cutting specialists, anyone... pornstars, ... Come on everybody! Everyone is hearty welcome.

It's magic... pure flying magic!


I don't have the prototype foam leg wing with me to show, but the basic idea should be clear from the discussion above. I'll see what sketches from the past I can find in my piles...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LeeroyJenkins

Look how productive this thread can be when you answer questions and participate in the discussion.



Yes, it's even more productive when participants reply with same. The noise dropped, signal remained the same, S/N ratio skyrocketed, halle-fucking-luja! :D
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By the way, wingsuit tunnel engineers are also welcome to join WSB (Wing Systems Blockchain). Because a foam wing system can also be used in WST, it doesn't have to be ram-air wingsuit, especially that there's no airplane inconvenience/bulk. WST "tourists" definitely can fly with foam wings (maybe, even easier than with cloth suits).

WSR '2018 begins, don't miss the train and look like The Stooges!
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MAGIC-FREE L/D

I mentioned in my earlier post that you don't need yuri's "magic" coefficients from WSE to compute L/D. Thought I would share the math here in case it helps someone's understanding of wingsuit dynamics.

[inline magicfree1.png]

The net acceleration A of a wingsuiter can be measured by GPS, and is equal to the sum of the force vectors: A = L + D + G

Split the equality into its vector components. The obvious thing would be to align our coordinates with earth (x and y axes), but that makes the math tricky. Much easier if we project it onto the Lift and Drag axes:

[inline magicfree2.png]

Rearrange to get:

[inline magicfree3.png]

Since we know the velocity components from GPS: sin(theta) = vy / v and cos(theta) = vx / v. Substitute to get:

[inline magicfree4.png]

Boom, L/D from GPS velocity and acceleration data! No magic ;)

As a sanity check, when A = 0 it's easy to see that L/D = vx / vy = glide ratio. Exactly what we would expect for steady state flight. But this also works when accelerating.

This doesn't work if there is wind, because lift and drag forces will no longer be parallel and perpendicular to the velocity vector. But it works well in low-wind situations, especially BASE jumps.

Wonder if there will be more math skeptics...

(edit: fixed negative)
BASEline - Wingsuit Flight Computer

magicfree1.png

magicfree2.png

magicfree3.png

magicfree4.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
platypii

Boom, L/D from GPS velocity and acceleration data! No magic ;)



Yes, exactly same as the "magic" formula

L/D = (GR + z)/(1 - GR*z)

where z is dimensionless ratio z = ax/(g - ay).

from here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4897209#4897209

BAM!

It's magic, pure flying magic!

Quote

As a sanity check, when A = 0 it's easy to see that L/D = v_x / v_y = glide ratio. Exactly what we would expect for steady state flight.



L/D=GR also in non-sustained flight when only ax=0 (ay doesn't have to), which is not so obvious (but can be seen from the force diagram).

Quote

This doesn't work if there is wind, because lift and drag forces will no longer be parallel and perpendicular to the velocity vector.



L and D are always perpendicular and parallel to relative wind (aka airspeed), that's why accelerometer on vane always measures L/D correctly. Even in 3D.

Quote

Wonder if there will be more math skeptics...



They've been quiet lately, sitting under the WSE Monolith...
Android+Wear/iOS/Windows apps:
L/D Vario, Smart Altimeter, Rockdrop Pro, Wingsuit FAP
iOS only: L/D Magic
Windows only: WS Studio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
0