Swift 3?

[Westerly 61]

I am looking to get my first wingsuit. I was using a Hatch for my FFC and several instructors have recommended the Swift 3. What do you think?

On another note, how important is it to have a 7-cell canopy for wingsuiting? I've been using a 9-cell square 170 canopy with a low WL (less than 1.1). It's opened fine so far, but I have only done a handfull of jumps so that doesent say too much yet.

[kat00 11]

If you prefer the Squirrel line, then a swift 3(if new) or swift 2( if used) is the next logical step. They have the Gus now as well to act as a mini Funk if you want a more acro focus. The swift 3 is nice. it has really good performance/speed while still letting you learn to backfly and do some fun acrobatics. Definitely, don't try and rush into a bigger suit like the ATC or freak.

I think if you focus on wingsuit then long term a 7 cell is preferred especially as you get to bigger suits. A docile 9 cell though will work just fine with a swift 3.

[Westerly 61]

kat00

If you prefer the Squirrel line, then a swift 3(if new) or swift 2( if used) is the next logical step. They have the Gus now as well to act as a mini Funk if you want a more acro focus. The swift 3 is nice. it has really good performance/speed while still letting you learn to backfly and do some fun acrobatics. Definitely, don't try and rush into a bigger suit like the ATC or freak.

I think if you focus on wingsuit then long term a 7 cell is preferred especially as you get to bigger suits. A docile 9 cell though will work just fine with a swift 3.

How does the Swift 3 compare to the Hatch? I've been using the Hatch as a student suit.

[dthames 0]

I can't answer about the suit.

I have been flying a 9 cell Pilot since I was a student. A 7 cell might be better in some cases, but I have never considered giving up my 9 cell.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[kat00 11]

Westerly

How does the Swift 3 compare to the Hatch? I've been using the Hatch as a student suit.

It's not a night and day difference but it's a small step up. You have more wing but not too much. I think you initially notice the glide on it. As you get coaching and refine your flying, it gets way faster and more agile. The wings are a bit stiffer too with the foam which is probably what I noticed the most initially but I did the initial flights without the 5mm foam just to get used to it all. I'm super happy with mine and I think it's one of those suits you keep even if you outgrow it because its still fun to fly with other small suits.

[BryanCampau 0]

My recommendation is try before you buy. You can rent Tony, Phoenix Fly, and Squirrel suits. You may even be able to find someone with similar measurements that lets you try theirs. If there is a few similar size models within the brand then try those too. Then buy what feels best to you. :) We all want and like different things out of our suits.

[Meanee 1]

I recently picked up Swift 3 and love it. However, I do not have a lot of experience to draw from, with my ~25 total WS flights.

My FFC suit was Phantom or Shadow Edge. Swift 3 felt a lot twitchier due to larger leg wing. It took me a bit to get it under control. I think after 10 flights, I kind of have it dialed in. Now it flies like a dream. It is definitely fast. Me being a complete newbie, I managed to get 107 seconds of flight time out of mine. Last jump was 130 but I did not analyze Flysight data yet, just looked at a result from my Atlas.

Everyone recommends 7 cell canopy and I guess for a good reason. I fly a 1.15 loaded Sabre 2, and with good results. Good openings, easy to land, and easy to get out of line twists. My coach told me that as long as it's not over 1.3, I should be fine. But I may invest into a Pilot 7 later.

[dthames 0]

Meanee

I recently picked up Swift 3 and love it. However, I do not have a lot of experience to draw from, with my ~25 total WS flights.

My FFC suit was Phantom or Shadow Edge. Swift 3 felt a lot twitchier due to larger leg wing. It took me a bit to get it under control. I think after 10 flights, I kind of have it dialed in. Now it flies like a dream. It is definitely fast. Me being a complete newbie, I managed to get 107 seconds of flight time out of mine. Last jump was 130 but I did not analyze Flysight data yet, just looked at a result from my Atlas.

Everyone recommends 7 cell canopy and I guess for a good reason. I fly a 1.15 loaded Sabre 2, and with good results. Good openings, easy to land, and easy to get out of line twists. My coach told me that as long as it's not over 1.3, I should be fine. But I may invest into a Pilot 7 later.

Sorry but I have to take exception to "Everyone".

I have nothing bad to say about a 7 cell for wingsuiting but 6 years ago, there were none on the market (aimed at wingsuiting). What was recommended (and still is today) is a stable canopy without a lot of taper. Very often those that recommend 7 cells are trying to sell one. I have many friends that love their new 7 cell canopies. No one has given me any specific reason that makes me want to put down my money to replace my 9 cell. But that is just me.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[Meanee 1]

dthames

Sorry but I have to take exception to "Everyone".

Fair point. I should've said "everyone I spoke with"

[flying_phish 8]

Agreed. I've jumped Sabre 2 and Pilot (150 at about 1.3 WL) for years and never had a reason to wish I had 2 fewer cells over my head.

I'm not saying don't buy a 7-cell. Just don't rule out 9-cells just because they aren't marketed at wingsuiters specifically.

[birdynamnam 28]

7-cell isn't a magic bullet, imo the Sabre2 at wingloads below 1.4 is much better than the Storm 7-cell at same wingload, having had both previously. Infact people here have been moving away from the Storm, it just spins up so easely. The canopies made specifically for wingsuiting are 7-cells, as they in general are better suited due to the lower aspect ratio making them less prone to spinning when linetwist occur. There are exceptions though as I wrote. On topic the Swift 3 is a very good suit for beginners. Not as forgiving as the Phantoms/Shadows, rather it is "more efficient", but it can be overcome by any beginner no problems

[OldGregg 1]

BryanCampau

My recommendation is try before you buy. You can rent Tony, Phoenix Fly, and Squirrel suits. You may even be able to find someone with similar measurements that lets you try theirs. If there is a few similar size models within the brand then try those too. Then buy what feels best to you. :) We all want and like different things out of our suits.

Agree 100%

Just just btw, I would find something cheap to start with if you're jumping a lot (i.e. used). You'll probably want to change it within 100 jumps (or less than 50). If money is no object, then sure get a new whatever.

Also, anecdotally, although I do love SQ's big suits and am jumping one now, I didn't care for the Swift or Funk over their Tony or Phoenix competition. They weren't "bad" I just liked the R and S Bird and the Phantom and Ghost/Havok a lot more.

IMHO the best all around first flight to 100 jump wingsuit is the Phantom3 (I havn't jumped the Phantom Edge(4) but it is probably very similar). The Phantom 2 is outdated, the P3 is still very relevant (just btw).

[johnmatrix 21]

OldGregg

The Phantom 2 is outdated, the P3 is still very relevant (just btw).

Many outdated suits still work fine. I think very rarely is the latest generation needed to do what one wants.

[kleggo 138]

dthames

*** but 6 years ago, there were none on the market (aimed at wingsuiting). What was recommended (and still is today) is a stable canopy without a lot of taper.

ain't marketing GRAND????

amazingly my 7 cell triathlon loaded @ ~ 1.25 works just fine............... thus far

but it is NOT trendy.

cheers

[OldGregg 1]

johnmatrix

***The Phantom 2 is outdated, the P3 is still very relevant (just btw).

Many outdated suits still work fine. I think very rarely is the latest generation needed to do what one wants.

Agreed, I would just stay away from buying ancient stuff like a Skyflyer. You'll just want to get rid of it after like 10 jumps.

[dogdoghowl 5]

dthames

I have nothing bad to say about a 7 cell for wingsuiting but 6 years ago, there were none on the market (aimed at wingsuiting). What was recommended (and still is today) is a stable canopy without a lot of taper. Very often those that recommend 7 cells are trying to sell one. I have many friends that love their new 7 cell canopies. No one has given me any specific reason that makes me want to put down my money to replace my 9 cell. But that is just me.

An increase in the popularity of wingsuiting and resultant profit opportunities for canopy manufacturers over the last ~6 years has undoubtedly driven new product development. To say that this is the only reason may be overly cynical though. It would also omit consideration of the fact that approximately 6 years ago the surface area of popular wingsuits increased radically. This expansion of surface area is largely responsible for the deployment and opening complications which focused canopy research and development toward the new generation of 7 cell canopies.

Smaller wingsuits are far more readily able to be flown with more aggressive canopy combinations. The larger and more aggressive wingsuits become, the more critical a low aspect ratio 7 cell is for a reduction in the incidence of deployment and opening issues.

Whenever this question is raised it seems immediately apparent that those who do not own - or are unwilling to upgrade to - these newer canopy designs, dismiss them as unnecessary marketing exercises, citing their "Old Faithful 150" and its lack of experienced issues as proof of this mantra.

Canopy choice is entirely individual and what works for each of us may well be divergent. The newer generation of 7 cell canopies, namely the Epicene, Pilot7, Winx, and Horizon provide opening characteristics which at this time are at the absolute forefront of desirability for wingsuiting. Whether they are necessary for an individual is for each of us to decide. The benefits they provide are not theoretical marketing hyperbole however. They are very much real and tangible.

Personally I am very much encouraged by the fact that this sub-discipline of skydiving is not torpedoing its gear choices through targeting high-performance aspects of canopy flight; but rather espousing the advantages of safe and reliable parachute characteristics first and foremost.

[Westerly 61]

dogdoghowl

***

I have nothing bad to say about a 7 cell for wingsuiting but 6 years ago, there were none on the market (aimed at wingsuiting). What was recommended (and still is today) is a stable canopy without a lot of taper. Very often those that recommend 7 cells are trying to sell one. I have many friends that love their new 7 cell canopies. No one has given me any specific reason that makes me want to put down my money to replace my 9 cell. But that is just me.

Smaller wingsuits are far more readily able to be flown with more aggressive canopy combinations. The larger and more aggressive wingsuits become, the more critical a low aspect ratio 7 cell is for a reduction in the incidence of deployment and opening issues.
.

I was curious what about the larger wingsuits causes this. Is it the actual increase in surface area? If you measure the surface area of a smaller suit like the Swift and compare it to a bit larger one like the ATC, it's not hugely different from a mathematical prospective. Maybe a 20- 25% difference?

However, someone once told me that the issue is not as much the increase in surface area while flying as it is that if you open in line twists, a larger wing means you can start to flip around aggressively adding severely to the number of twists in the lines whereas a smaller WS wont do that as much.

So I guess one argument as the larger surface area creates a larger burble which affects the opening and the other argument is the larger wing means once line twists occur, an unstable deployment will be exacerbated by a large wing amplifying the number of twists in the lines as you spin around.

Which would you say is more correct?

[birdynamnam 28]

all of the above, but there is more to it. Going from a Swift2/3 as an example to the ATC, you must use a different deployment technique. Flaring the wingsuit to throttle the speed. It takes a little to dial that in, until that is in place, I see people having linetwists now and then :D In general when you upsize the wingsuit to the next class, you will very often also have to upsize the canopy (or go 7-cell even) and make sure you have open corners etc etc. Upsizing the wingsuit like this puts more requirements on your gear meaning it must be "more" wingsuit optimal than before your upsizing. There are quite many parameters that play in and when you change one of the parameters to the "worse" speaking of the possibility to get into linetwists, you will have to revisit all your gear choices. and also learn new techniques. But that is all part of wingsuit progression. PS Remember to keep your small suit, so that you can go fly with your new buddies that just got their FFC. They don't learn much from seeing you curled up in a bigsuit trying to stay with them