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mariobat

Container WS friendly

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lyosha

***Hi all!
Excluding Aurora container, what is (and why) in your experience the best container for WS jumps?

Safe jumps to all!!!



Probably avoid skyhook. Jury's still out about whether it's a good idea with wingsuits as far as I'm concerned. It could mess with AAD deployments. My wife's vector doesn't have it for that reason.


How is a Skyhook going to mess with an AAD deployment? All MARDs are designed to disconnect from the bridle if the reserve is fired without the main out.

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Nobody can answer your question 100% really. It is each his own, make up your own mind. I am with Lyosha on this. In general I personally see no problems with Skyhook for smaller/intermediate suits, however with bigsuits due to the burble action on that which is quite significant, I will like to have a free extraction of my reserve PC and bridle, free from any knots tied, or any add on equipment. It just have to go out there. Also I never go low, as in never. I am not therefore the typical usecase for this add on equipment.

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+1 for skysnatch.

When I started jumping my freak I was getting PC hesitations of around 1second or so. The PC would get end of the bridle and then it seemed to struggle to get the d bag off my back as it bounced around in the burble.

This was with a 30" ZP pilot chute (200jumps) and a container with open corners. I tried working it out on the ground and sending pics and video to people for advice but I tried the skysnatch and it solved this immediately.

I will admit my technique was probably partly to blame as I was probably not giving the PC clean air to work with but the skysnatch didn't seem to care.

On FS jumps I could feel a difference in that when the dbag reached linestretch I could feel it. My interpretation is the PC was pulling with more force than my old one.

It is a lot of money but I would buy another one

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The Skyhook is to help people that has no real understanding on the concept of "going too low" and/or people who cutts away too low, two things you should not do in the first place. Yes there are always rare situations where a Skyhook indeed could be helpful, eg if you are flown intoby somebody on final in a canopy collision and you have to cutt very low. But thats another topic. If I where a freeflyer jumping freefly bigways, flying a tiny radical main, etc etc I would also have a Skyhook. But I am not.

Being knocked out is always a risc in any freefall, some have spoken of the problem if you are unconcious in a bigsuit, falling slow, but that what you now have the Wingsuit Cypres for

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DHemer

+1 for skysnatch.

When I started jumping my freak I was getting PC hesitations of around 1second or so. The PC would get end of the bridle and then it seemed to struggle to get the d bag off my back as it bounced around in the burble.

This was with a 30" ZP pilot chute (200jumps) and a container with open corners. I tried working it out on the ground and sending pics and video to people for advice but I tried the skysnatch and it solved this immediately.

I will admit my technique was probably partly to blame as I was probably not giving the PC clean air to work with but the skysnatch didn't seem to care.

On FS jumps I could feel a difference in that when the dbag reached linestretch I could feel it. My interpretation is the PC was pulling with more force than my old one.

It is a lot of money but I would buy another one



Did you get the 26" or 30" version? Seems almost hard to believe a 26" ZP PC will produce more drag than a 30" F111 that's in good condition. The 30" has a quite a bit more surface area.

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DHemer

I was comparing a 30" ZP with 30" Skysnatch.

How is the 30" Skysnatch for standard terminal jumps? I was looking at getting one for a dual purpose WS rig that I use for belly jumps too, but 30" ZP seems a bit large for terminal jumps. PD warns that too large of a PC can cause hard openings and it seems most companies recommend a 27 - 30" F111 PC for terminal jumps.

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Westerly

***I was comparing a 30" ZP with 30" Skysnatch.

How is the 30" Skysnatch for standard terminal jumps? I was looking at getting one for a dual purpose WS rig that I use for belly jumps too, but 30" ZP seems a bit large for terminal jumps. PD warns that too large of a PC can cause hard openings and it seems most companies recommend a 27 - 30" F111 PC for terminal jumps.

I've used my 30" skysnatch on belly, head up and angle jumps. It hasn't caused an issue. Keep in mind it also has a nice sized vent in the middle so its not a full 30" of zp. It's a very different design compared to the conventional pilot chutes. If you are worried contact your canopy manufacturer or squirrel and ask about it. I know Squirrel gets back to you pretty quick on weekdays.

Quote

WHAT SIZE SHOULD I CHOOSE?
The SkySNATCH is not necessarily more or less powerful than other PCs of similar size. The main difference is stability. For example, if you find that your 30" PC is functioning well for wingsuit use currently, then a 30" SkySNATCH will work similarly depending on the design factors specific to your current PC. If you are using an older 0-3fcm (F-111) PC for skydiving currently and are happy with the extraction force it is providing, then you may need to choose a smaller size of SkySNATCH.

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OldGregg

***I don't think there is a "best". Just like with all container threads, it's a personal preference. If you want to optimize for wingsuiting you can get dynamic corners, a semi stowless D bag and Squirrel Skysnatch Pilot chute.



Agree with all of the above except the SkySnatch. I get the "deploy as fast a possible" in the BASE environment, but it doesn't make as much sense in the sky. I wouldn't characterize the SkySnatch as "bad" but it is "unnecessary" and has a couple drawbacks.

1- It is $200, basically double the price of most other kill-line PCs, and 3x the price of the cheapo ones.

2- Harder on gear, faster/harder extraction = more force being transmitted into everything from the PCA to the risers, it might even mean less life in the PC's ZP itself. Fine for BASE because 100ft might be life vs. death, but that isn't the case in the sky unless you're already in a pickle (should probably go straight to reserve) or you do something stupid (pulling dirty low or jump a huge suit with a 6' bridle).

3- It makes some assumptions that a faster/harder extraction is more stable, in a free packed BASE main with a tail pocket and a BASE container that basically completely comes apart on deployment (compared to a sky container) ok sure, that might be true. But when extracting a d-bag with line stows (even semi-stowless) from a container that is more restrictive, maybe not, fast and violent might mean more chaotic and more force thrown into a rotation of the bag. I do appreciate the wind tunnel stuff and comparison vids SQ made, but they are non-empirical/leave out a ton of variables and are relatively anecdotal. I've also seen plenty of back facing vid (mine included) with significant PC oscillation and a completely straight extraction with completely symmetrical inflation, PC oscillation does not = unstable extraction with a main that is in a d-bag. Case in point, CRW and swoopers haven't jumped on it (figuratively speaking), and their deployments are arguably less stable / more nuanced than WS ones, if it was a significant improvement, they would have switched over.

4- It packs big, again not a problem with BASE BOC's but sky BOC's are a good bit tighter. And there are no options for handles other than their cf tube and no tuck tab if you're into those.

Again, it's not a bad thing, just unnecessary in the sky.

I don't think I can agree, but maybe I'm wrong so here's my 2 cents:

1) True, it's more expensive - may be questionable if the costs worth the performance.

2) This I don't really get - PC's role ends right when canopy is in line stretch - canopy size and forward speed will always have MUCH more impact on forces you describe that any PC. After all PC is what, 4 sqft? Usual wingsuit canopy is 135-170 sqft which is over 30-40 times bigger.
Also as stated https://base-book.com/pc-extraction-and-inflation "What we are seeing here is similar average drag force ".

3) It not the assumption that faster extraction is more stable. The assumption is that the actual 3D shape gives less oscillations.

Maybe I have some things wrong, so I'm open for discussion.

All that said - I actually own 2 skysnatches - Neither is in use with my WS rig for which I use normal PC :)

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lyosha

***

Quote

Probably avoid skyhook. Jury's still out about whether it's a good idea with wingsuits as far as I'm concerned. It could mess with AAD deployments. My wife's vector doesn't have it for that reason.



Can you elaborate???



Sure.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4841399#4841399

Meh, I’m understanding your theoretical arguement, but it seems pretty specific and theoretical in light of the advantages of a skyhook. To say “the jury is out” is kind of calling yourself the jury.

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dogdoghowl

Icon long versions are a nice option. I've put ~50 jumps on one and it has remained tight on my back at all attitudes and angles of flight. No difference in that regard to the Micron I also regularly fly.



Thanks for share, wich Icon donyou have? A or V?

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