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johnmatrix

Have you ever had an arm trapped?

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I have been discussing wingsuit arm escape backup systems recently with others - cutaways and escape sleeves and was reflecting on that fact that I don't think I know anyone who has ever had an arm zipper jam.

In over 400 wingsuit jumps I've never had a zipper failure resulting in being trapped in the suit. It's pinched my skin before but never caught on clothing.
I have had one arm zipper break where the tab came off the zip, but the zipper still functions.

I still think escape systems are an important backup, but just wondering if anyone has any experience or other stories with having to use them... ?

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Think Ive used them 3 times in 4500 ws jumps.
Twice clothing caught. Once (JiWings) broken zipper, during spinning mal (that I then did clear after I freed my second arm).

With the low/agressive arm sweep, some suits now have difficulty reaching risers when not lifting knees. Which in a spinning mal doesnt work. I dont mind jumping suits without, but have cutaway on my personal suits usually.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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I had one on my second WS jump in a P2. I believe that PF have updated the design to make it less likely since.

Fun fact: The armwing cutaway is in a different place on the P2 and the P3, meaning that the briefing I got (Cutaway with a handle near the thumb loop) was not actually correct when it came time to actually ditch it. Make sure you've actually tried a cutaway on the ground before you need it in the sky :)

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richoH

I had one on my second WS jump in a P2. I believe that PF have updated the design to make it less likely since.

Fun fact: The armwing cutaway is in a different place on the P2 and the P3, meaning that the briefing I got (Cutaway with a handle near the thumb loop) was not actually correct when it came time to actually ditch it. Make sure you've actually tried a cutaway on the ground before you need it in the sky :)



OK, how did it get stuck? On clothing?

Thanks everyone else for the responses.

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I've also had a zipper stuck on an older P2. It go stuck on the piece of fabric that is there to prevent you getting the zipper stuck on a t-shirt...

Like someone has said before, this isn't an issue on newer PF suits - (such as my Havok Carve that i've never had a zipper stuck)

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The wingsuit I did my FJC in had its arm zipper fail during the time I was using it. I intentionally did one jump after it did (knowing full well I'd have to use the cutaway), but with slightly different timing it could very well have happened during a jump. I won't refuse to jump a suit without arm cutaways, but I want mine to have them. Less so for leg cutaways, these seem fairly useless (save perhaps for the very big suits with leg wings extending well pas the feet, but I've not jumped anything so big and won't for a good while still).
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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johnmatrix

I have been discussing wingsuit arm escape backup systems recently with others - cutaways and escape sleeves and was reflecting on that fact that I don't think I know anyone who has ever had an arm zipper jam.

In over 400 wingsuit jumps I've never had a zipper failure resulting in being trapped in the suit. It's pinched my skin before but never caught on clothing.
I have had one arm zipper break where the tab came off the zip, but the zipper still functions.

I still think escape systems are an important backup, but just wondering if anyone has any experience or other stories with having to use them... ?



I have pinched my skin once, so follow is divers:
Slow is smooth....smooth is fast.

I had released my arm wing on countless times on a Stealth, that suit was prone to jam with itself, there was some zp material along the zipper.

I'm really happy with Tony Suit X-Wing and the escape sleeve, I can reach my risers at once, without any hassle.

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johnmatrix

***I had one on my second WS jump in a P2. I believe that PF have updated the design to make it less likely since.

Fun fact: The armwing cutaway is in a different place on the P2 and the P3, meaning that the briefing I got (Cutaway with a handle near the thumb loop) was not actually correct when it came time to actually ditch it. Make sure you've actually tried a cutaway on the ground before you need it in the sky :)



OK, how did it get stuck? On clothing?

Thanks everyone else for the responses.

It has a little fabric flap that runs under the zip, I think to attempt to seal the arm better. I think it got caught up in the zip.

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I've seen a Ghost 1 over the shoulder zipper fail during a jump, the arm wing slid down the jumpers right arm are pretty considerably. He managed to pull ok and deal with it in flight, I don't remember if he pulled his arm through the shoulder or just unzipped it like normal after deployment though.

I use these on my arms to make it easier to unzip, have had them for over 3 years now and still happy with them; doesn't do anything for a zipper failure though.

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Having flown suits from all "big 3" manufacturers (PF, Tony, Squirrel) I personally like the PF solution best. The stiff leading edges allow for very precise inputs, and there's a cutaway provided for emergency purposes. I've never had to cutaway a zipper, but it's nice to know it's there.

Even with the stiffest PF leading edges I've never had a problem reaching the bottom of my risers.
Apex BASE
#1816

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I can crab my toggles in my Aura3 without touching a zipper. My friend who just got his Swift3 is nearly grabbing his toggles on skydives without trying (didn't realize he was doing it until looking at video) and could probably grab his toggles easy. Not sure on the rest of their line but considering the similar arm sweep and same leading edge material the Aura3 shares with the rest of the suit I would be surprised (except with skydive C-Race) if you couldn't force your hand to the toggles is really needed.

And definitely in the base environment i wouldn't jump a suit i cant land without touching a zipper. It's all good till something goes wrong and when something goes wrong, I want my toggles before my sliders down.
Whats the point of living if you aren't doing what you love?

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