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skydiverek

Tandem double mal, cameraman saves! VIDEO, MUST SEE !!!

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obelixtim

That cameraman should not be paying for a beer for a very long time.



That TI should not be doing tandems for a very long time - preferably never.
2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

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FUBAR

Correct me if I am wrong but in this video the TI did not initiate proper procedure for a Horseshoe malfunction. Make an attempt to clear the horseshoe, in this case release drogue, and if doesn’t clear, cut away insuring full risers release, and then pull reserve handle.

Good thing the cameraman was there, aware, and skilled enough to help, he likely prevented a double fatality.
Memento Mori

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I don't know if it's of consequence other than to indicate how old/out of date the gear is but this rig still had the curved pin and had not been updated.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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lubs

Hey,

The proper response should have been...

Attempt to clear drogue ->
Release RSL ->
Pull cutaway handle ->
Physically clear the risers away ->
Pull reserve handle



By "Attempt to clear drogue" you meant "activate drogue release" right?
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Well, yeah, sorry for any confusion, I was just pulling verbiage off the Sigma manual but yes, attempting to clear the drogue in a horseshoe situation where the drogue is out will involve activating drogue releases in order to clear it. Not sure how else one could clear a drogue thats already out in a malfunction situation.

To be fair though UPT is all I jump and this doesn't look like a UPT rig. Strong maybe?

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lubs

Well, yeah, sorry for any confusion, I was just pulling verbiage off the Sigma manual but yes, attempting to clear the drogue in a horseshoe situation where the drogue is out will involve activating drogue releases in order to clear it. Not sure how else one could clear a drogue thats already out in a malfunction situation.

To be fair though UPT is all I jump and this doesn't look like a UPT rig. Strong maybe?



It's a Strong Rig that hadn't been updated in about 20 years.

Initially, before the TI went out of sequence on his EPs, the path would have been to deploy main via drogue release and prepare for the likely resulting malfunction. I take the phrase "clearing the drogue" to reference a situation where the drogue or bridle is caught around something and needs to be cleared.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Hi Rover,

I did review my EPs when I pulled the exact wording from the UPT Sigma manual. I'll admit I don't know much about 20 year old Strong emergency procedures but if you hold a UPT rating I suggest you review your EPs.

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lubs

Hi Rover,

I did review my EPs when I pulled the exact wording from the UPT Sigma manual. I'll admit I don't know much about 20 year old Strong emergency procedures but if you hold a UPT rating I suggest you review your EPs.



Out of curiosity, what section did you pull that from?

On a Strong Dual Hawk the procedure would be no different on that rig regardless of whether it was configured with the current closing system. The curved pin was more prone to an open container without the drogue being released. You'd really have to fuck up the pack job in the current configuration for that to happen but it's been done.

I think what's being asked about the procedure you posted is at what point in the skydive you're applying it to. Again Strong Dual Hawk and TNT: First the TI has an open main tray with the D-Bag out. The procedure is to activate the main deployment as usual. There will likely be a malfunction that the TI needs to deal with but there's no automatic path to disconnecting the RSL or cutting away the main.

For UPT Sigma "Container Open":
Deploy drogue immediately
If Drogue cannot be deployed
Release RSL shackle
Pull cutaway handle
Ensure Full release of main risers
Deploy Reserve
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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Without looking anything up my understanding is that in any situation where you need to cutaway from a situation where there may not be enough drag in whatever is out to ensure a clean cutaway the best thing to do is to disconnect the RSL and then cutaway. Following that action you should ensure that the risers have left you, and to remove them from the rings if necessary. After that pull the ripcord.

I hope never to have to test my ability to remember and perform those tasks. Tandem EPs are not simple.

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Hey,
I was pulling from page 101 of the Sigma manual, the malfunction tree.

Quote

I think what's being asked about the procedure you posted is at what point in the skydive you're applying it to. Again Strong Dual Hawk and TNT: First the TI has an open main tray with the D-Bag out. The procedure is to activate the main deployment as usual.



100% on the same page on this

Quote


There will likely be a malfunction that the TI needs to deal with but there's no automatic path to disconnecting the RSL or cutting away the main.



I may be assuming too much here as the video quality isn't great but I guess I figured he tried to activate the main and was unable to leaving him with a drogue in tow and an open container. At that point I'd be treating it as the "Container Open" malfuntion you quoted.

Quote

For UPT Sigma "Container Open":
Deploy drogue immediately
If Drogue cannot be deployed
Release RSL shackle
Pull cutaway handle
Ensure Full release of main risers
Deploy Reserve



Maybe he made no attempt to activate the main and went strait to reserve? Again, I'm not even remotely familiar with Strong systems. My lack of information is already making me regret arm-chairing this.

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gowlerk

Without looking anything up my understanding is that in any situation where you need to cutaway from a situation where there may not be enough drag in whatever is out to ensure a clean cutaway the best thing to do is to disconnect the RSL and then cutaway. Following that action you should ensure that the risers have left you, and to remove them from the rings if necessary. After that pull the ripcord.

I hope never to have to test my ability to remember and perform those tasks. Tandem EPs are not simple.



I have the Sigma Manual on my desk, the only scenarios where you first detach the RSL are:
Open container (out of sequence) only if you cannot deploy the drogue
Drogue Entanglement with videographer or 3rd person
Detached Drogue with container open with bag still in container
Collapsed Drogue in tow after unsuccessful drogue release

The collapsed drogue is adequate for deploying the main normally on either system. The USPA IRM also does not defer to manufacturer's data in a collapsed drogue situation so I assume it's the same for the "other" systems that are used at lease in the US.

As far as this situation goes I can't tell if the risers are released, much less the RSL, can't tell if the student drogue release has been activated but I don't see it. It appears as though the instructor drogue release is in place but it's possible that it was stuck in place (hard pull) which wouldn't be out of reason since some sort of serious packing fuckup and failure of a gear check put him in this situation to begin with. If he had attempted to cut away before deploying the reserve then a properly installed and routed instructor drogue release would've gone with the cutaway handle but if it was jammed then he could've chopped with it staying in place.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that it's likely he didn't follow procedures for an open container because the only thing that would not allow the drogue to release would be something routed through the drogue release three ring that held it in place. Perhaps that's why the instructor handle was still in place.
"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

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