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danwayland

Tunnel Rigs and Skills Translating From Sky to Tunnel

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I've just started trying to learn to freefly in the tunnel; I learned backfly and sitfly in the sky, where I can (usually) hold still relative to someone else, change fall rate a bit, turn, move forward and back, and transition easily from back to sit or belly to sit. I decided to get in the tunnel because I haven't figured out how to take docks in front of me in the sky; and because for all I've tried I can't figure out how to get head-down up there. I need to be able to do both to fly MFS...

Almost an hour now and I still haven't gotten an off-the-net hover in a sit for more than about 2 seconds - and that at an iFly's 92%. The body position required to do even that feels extremely unnatural, and the tiniest slip-up with my hips sends me slamming forward into the wall at Mach speed. Granted, my sky position at least with my legs has never been ideal - but with my rig on, I figured out how to hold (relatively) still i.e. I'm not skating all over the place or backsliding like mad, and I can stay with someone and maneuver relative to them.

Over and over again I find myself wishing I had my rig on; in my mind that's what's making the difference. When you don't have the rig as a flying surface in a sit, you have to exaggerate your torso position from your hips all the way to your chin to get the same effect across your shoulderblades (or at least that's what it seems like to me, a freefly tunnel rookie). At Eloy, I technically could put on a mock rig or put a cover on my own rig, if I wanted and if my coach allowed; a very few other tunnels, like Paraclete, allow covered or mock rigs. I see it with some frequency in Eloy, when teams are training. The iFlys don't allow rigs of any kind - that might be a big part of why we don't see so many people freeflying in the tunnel with rigs on, at least in the US.

As Ron says when he talks about belly flying in there - I train 4-way in the tunnel and have noticed two big differences when wearing my rig versus not: that I can't outface as well with my rig on because I can't sit up as much or turn my head as far, and that burble-hopping (e.g. FS block 17) is much more difficult. The rig does limit my range of motion. But with these techniques, I perfected them in the tunnel without a rig before trying them in the sky, and learning them with the increased ROM makes trying to compensate for LESS the challenge. So I'm thinking that with freeflying in the case you're discussing, the problem might be the opposite: if you learn with a restricted ROM (which also allows you to use the rig as a flight surface), and then you get in the tunnel where you have much greater ROM and tiny inputs have a greater effect, it's like cranking the sensitivity way up. Like going from walking around in sneakers all the time to trying to dance in stiletto heels. You can walk fine and dance fine but now your "flight surface" so to speak is much more sensitive. You have to learn how to balance all over again and while you're trying you spend a lot of time falling on your face.

Would it really help me to put my rig on? I have no idea. I've thought about asking; I might, next time I'm down at SkyVenture (Eloy). Maybe it would get me off the net at 88% (which is more like an iFly's 84%). If I ask and they let me do it, I'll let you know how it goes...

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Why limit it to free fly ? I’m a belly flyer that started 38 years ago. Only got a couple thousand skydives though. But zero tunnel time. So I say throw me in any tunnel and I can stay in the middle not bounce off the walls and “ suck” Wanna bet ?....
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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RockSkyGirl



Would it really help me to put my rig on? I have no idea. I've thought about asking; I might, next time I'm down at SkyVenture (Eloy). Maybe it would get me off the net at 88% (which is more like an iFly's 84%). If I ask and they let me do it, I'll let you know how it goes...

Seems like an extremely poor idea. If one of your handles comes out, you're going straight into the turbines or exhaust grate. You could remove your main and reserve, but then you wont really accomplish what you're looking for.

keithbar

Why limit it to free fly ? I’m a belly flyer that started 38 years ago. Only got a couple thousand skydives though. But zero tunnel time. So I say throw me in any tunnel and I can stay in the middle not bounce off the walls and “ suck” Wanna bet ?....



I would take that bet. I personally watched someone with 4000 RW skydives try a tunnel for the first time. He couldent even stay off the mesh in a belly position. Even after a 10 minutes he was having trouble turning points without running into the wall. A wind tunnel is not the sky. They are different in a few ways. A skydiver can get used to it somewhat quickly, but their first fly is going to suck compared to what they do in the sky.

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I'm not stupid; I have a secure rig cover which includes separate neoprene covers for the MLW and securely holds the handles. Quite a few people in Eloy have that kind of thing, since our tunnel is (protected)rig-friendly and our local teams train with their (protected)rigs on...

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If you actually get the chance to tunnel sitfly with a tunnel rig please report back.
I do think the bottom of container looks like a big lift / air friction producing surface.

My hypothesis is that tunnel sitflying will still be different and harder than in freefall, though.

And according to this rigorous dropzone.com thread based science - the physics are exactly the same, it just feels / seems harder because you have very little room to drift around or change fall rates compared to freefall.
--
Dan Wayland
http://www.danwayland.com

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This is a fascinating topic and I've found myself thinking hard about it over the last day or two.

Another thought as to why it's such a hard transition, if you learn in one medium and then shift to the other:

-Going from tunnel to sky, suddenly you are dealing with less ROM and the change in your flight surfaces and the airflow across your body due to the presence of your rig. You're also dealing with the hill (granted that effect disappears after a few seconds but can still be initially quite disorienting). Still, once you figure out how to compensate for these things the rest of the skills apply directly. After a few jumps to re-find my balance, the better arm position I'd spent an hour learning in the tunnel was coming naturally.

-Going from sky to tunnel it's not just that you're removing the rig as a flight surface (though I maintain that that's part of it). In the sky, you are falling at YOUR fall rate, through air which is not itself moving. At most you are making small adjustments to stay with another person. In the tunnel, the wind speed is fixed in any given moment, and you are trying to change your body position so that you are in equilibrium with it in terms of fall rate. Unless the wind speed exactly matches your natural neutral body position's fall rate, you're either going to be struggling to get off the net, or feeling like the wind is too fast and struggling to maintain control. Which makes learning how to freefly in the tunnel (after you've learned already in the sky) more a matter of learning how to adjust your fall rate to exactly match the wind speed than anything else. With the penalty of the inelastic collisions with the glass if you F up. And what I'm finding so far is that this is far more difficult than taking the tunnel skills and applying them in the sky.

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I think you’re spot on. No doubt sky to tunnel is where the challenges lie.
If you reach for that grip in the sky and speed up a little, your partner might match your fall rate without even knowing he/she did it. Same thing in the tunnel and you’re wondering why you’re dropping out.

Tunnel is like doing it without a rig, which is a little different, and also right next to a spaceball.

But the physics are identical. Just gravity, air friction, and Iaasac Newton’s equal opposite force.
--
Dan Wayland
http://www.danwayland.com

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Westerly

You could remove your main and reserve, but then you wont really accomplish what you're looking for.



I have a rig set up with lead and foam to make it the same size and weight as a rig. My whole team used to have rigs set up this way.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Westerly



***Why limit it to free fly ? I’m a belly flyer that started 38 years ago. Only got a couple thousand skydives though. But zero tunnel time. So I say throw me in any tunnel and I can stay in the middle not bounce off the walls and “ suck” Wanna bet ?....



I would take that bet. I personally watched someone with 4000 RW skydives try a tunnel for the first time. He couldent even stay off the mesh in a belly position. Even after a 10 minutes he was having trouble turning points without running into the wall. A wind tunnel is not the sky. They are different in a few ways. A skydiver can get used to it somewhat quickly, but their first fly is going to suck compared to what they do in the sky.
Quote

. Ok when can we work out a time to meet at ifly Atlanta. Say we bet ten minutes of time. 👍


i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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