New SL/IAD "freefall" jump requirement

[aeharding 2]

Hi all,

How do you guys feel about the change from "25 jumps" for an A license, to "25 freefall jumps"?

For IAD, this effectively means there will be 5+ more required jumps to get an "A" license.

Just thought I'd ask!

EDIT: Personally I am troubled that nobody reached out to dropzones that would be affected by this :( At least not our DZ. Also, the ramifications of the change weren't emphasized (the effective jump # change for IAD/SL). I'm glad I didn't glance over the word "freefall" when reading the BOD summary!

[Blis 1]

aeharding

Hi all,

How do you guys feel about the change from "25 jumps" for an A license, to "25 freefall jumps"?

For IAD, this effectively means there will be 5+ more required jumps to get an "A" license.

Just thought I'd ask!

EDIT: Personally I am troubled that nobody reached out to dropzones that would be affected by this :( At least not our DZ. Also, the ramifications of the change weren't emphasized (the effective jump # change for IAD/SL). I'm glad I didn't glance over the word "freefall" when reading the BOD summary!

Where I jump it is minimum of 32 jumps when doing SL/IAD... Personally I feel that 25 jumps for license is not nearly enough, I mean most of the AFF students that get licensed cant even exit properly...

[SethInMI 163]

I was just starting out in 2003 which was the big change that I recall. I remember the scramble for the D and Cs, this change feels small in comparison, and I seriously doubt it will have much impact on IAD retention rates.

Can someone tell me what the A-licence requirements were in 2002? Google is letting me down on finding them.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[Westerly 61]

aeharding

Hi all,

How do you guys feel about the change from "25 jumps" for an A license, to "25 freefall jumps"?

For IAD, this effectively means there will be 5+ more required jumps to get an "A" license.

Just thought I'd ask!

EDIT: Personally I am troubled that nobody reached out to dropzones that would be affected by this :( At least not our DZ. Also, the ramifications of the change weren't emphasized (the effective jump # change for IAD/SL). I'm glad I didn't glance over the word "freefall" when reading the BOD summary!

I support it. I see it as this:

1. Very few are going to get their A license and then just quit.
2. You can still jump on student status and you can even jump with other people if they have a coach rating or D license.

Since you can still jump without a license and you're going to do more than 25 jumps anyway, I see no reason why stretching it out to 30 for IAD students would result in any meaningful problems. It mostly just means you cant jump at a new DZ yet and you cant jump with a bunch of other noobs, both of which are not bad things for someone that new to the sport.

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

Westerly

I support it. I see it as this:

1. Very few are going to get their A license and then just quit...

Wanna bet?

Any clue how often this happens?

Helpful hint:

A lot.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DanG 1]

Static line and IAD jumps did not count toward your license when I started in 1995. Not sure when they made the change.

- Dan G

[SethInMI 163]

DanG

Static line and IAD jumps did not count toward your license when I started in 1995. Not sure when they made the change.

Yeah that is what I think was in effect before the big bumps in 2003, A-license was 20 freefall jumps. Then it went to what it is now, 25 total jumps.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[Beatnik 2]

USPA is a national aero club and issues licenses (certificates of proficiency) on behalf of the FAI and they are all internationally recognized. The FAI changed the minimum requirements for an FAI recognized license. The USPA, as a national aero club, has followed the FAI. This is a world wide thing and affects every aero club, not only the USPA. For the licenses to be internationally recognized, FAI licenses (certificates of proficiency), they had no choice.

You can check out the minimum requirements here:

https://www.fai.org/document-compression/25045

[SethInMI 163]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:13 AM, aeharding said:

How do you guys feel about the change from "25 jumps" for an A license, to "25 freefall jumps"?


I see in Sept 2019 Parachutist that USPA has clarified that all jumps are freefall jumps (even static line and IAD), so this change is a moot point.

[pchapman 278]

2 hours ago, SethInMI said:

I see in Sept 2019 Parachutist that USPA has clarified that all jumps are freefall jumps (even static line and IAD), so this change is a moot point.

I have no real involvement in all this, but:   Really? Wow. That goes against the way we all have defined things in North America for the last 100+ years of parachuting. What counts as NOT freefall? Direct bagging from the aircraft? Pull-off from the wing? Getting pulled out the door by an accidental opening?

Edited September 15, 2019 by pchapman

[SethInMI 163]

14 hours ago, pchapman said:

What counts as NOT freefall? Direct bagging from the aircraft? Pull-off from the wing? Getting pulled out the door by an accidental opening?

From the article: "unless your static line or IAD student exits the airplane with a fully deployed parachute, the skydive counts toward the freefall requirements for an A license." - Ron Bell USPA Director of S&T

Mr. Bell cites the definitions of free fall: "portion of jump between exit and deployment"

and deployment:"after activation, extraction of the parachute from the container..."  

so according to USPA, the period of time between exit of the plane and container opening is now freefall, and if time in freefall > 0 (even if less than 1 second) it is a freefall jump.

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,495]

That's how it seems to read.

I did S/L with a direct bag setup. I cannot see how that jump can be called anything close to 'freefall',  but I'm not the one in charge of it.

 

I can see a spring loaded pilot chute S/L setup counting. But the jumper falls a LOT further before having an inflated canopy with that setup.

[skypilotA1 67]

Some people seem to making a big thing of this.  It is NOT a new rule, it is simply explaining and defining the existing rule. A S/L or IAD has a freefall component, even if only a very short one. To take the example to an extreme, if the S/L jump used a mile long static line, there could be one minute of freefall.  In another version, an instructor deployment at the bottom end of an AFF Cat A is simply an IAD jump.  

It isn’t a new rule, just defining the old rule specifically. One can read all about it in Parachutist.

Paul Gholson  S/L-I, IAD-I, AFF-I

 

 

[evh 22]

This is confusing. It is completely opposite of the definition I am used to .

The FAI license requirements even specifically state "freefall":

‘A’ Certificate: ‘Parachutist’

1. 25 freefall jumps.

Why would they do this if staticline jumps also count? Why not simply state "25 jumps"?  Surely not because of premature openings?

Over here (the Netherlands) I think we try to match the FAI regulations but we don't count SL jumps for the A-licence (also 25 freefall jumps) or the B/C/D license or  tandem requirements.

Does anybody now what the FAI has to say about this? What do other countries say?

[skypilotA1 67]

There is an in-depth description and explanation in Parachutist magazine.  This was done, in part, to insure conformity to FAI rules. It is in Parachutist, it is on Facebook, it was discussed at length during the USPA Board meeting.  S/L and IAD jumps count as freefall jumps toward a USPA license.

[evh 22]

Thanks! Can I find the FAI rules somewhere?

[weldingninja41 14]

There was a lengthy discussions on another forum regarding Static line and IAD jumps and their credit towards licenses. As a SLI/IADI who regularly gets both Cadets from the Air Force Academy and jump students from several military bases in our area who have military static line deployments, there was a lot of confusion regarding these jumps. The USPA defines a skydive as leaving any aircraft in flight with the intention of landing under a parachute. It took many emails between myself, Jay Stokes, Ron Bell and regional director Ray Lallo to get clarification. Static line amd IAD jumps are considered freefall jumps because there is a short period.o time before deployment that the person is consodered in freefall.. Military Static line jumps do count towards total number of jumps for USPA licenses. They obviously do not tick off the freefall time or freefall skills requirements. I just finished a SL course with an Army jumper who arrived with 34 SL jumps including intentional water landings. After he completed his course with us and through some back and forth with Ron Bell and some others. He needs only a small amount of freefall time and a canopy course for his B license. The junps he had before the course count. He completed all requirements in 22 jumps and recieved his A license.