Students landing in water

[bamber 0]

What is your opinion of students making their first jump over water, since it is a softer landing. Students have 6 time the rate of injuries than the licensed. This is if they can pay the extra cost.

Quote

The risk of an injury event of any kind was six times higher per jump for students than for licensed skydivers.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsmed/cusm_events/2014-Extreme-Sports-Medicine-Congress/Documents/Presentations/Injuries%20in%20Skydiving.pdf

[gowlerk 1,902]

My opinion is simple. Water landings are inherently dangerous and if you do enough of them people will drown despite precautions.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[pchapman 261]

Ah, you're the guy with the odd questions.

Sure, students can land in water. Might cost a bit though to move all the DZs. Or have students land in a giant field covered in 2 feet of marshmallows, to reduce landing injuries. Again, it might push the price of a first jump course up a tad.

Landing in water can be pretty demanding, needing extra facilities like boats, and expense in activating flotation gear, which unless water-activated take some skill too. So we'd likely trade some drownings for a bunch of ankle injuries.

But thanks for the link to the extreme sports sportsmed presentations.

[yoink 321]

bamber

What is your opinion of students making their first jump over water, since it is a softer landing. Students have 6 time the rate of injuries than the licensed. This is if they can pay the extra cost.

Quote

The risk of an injury event of any kind was six times higher per jump for students than for licensed skydivers.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsmed/cusm_events/2014-Extreme-Sports-Medicine-Congress/Documents/Presentations/Injuries%20in%20Skydiving.pdf

No. Water landings are fucking terrifying and require additional training to mitigate even some of the risk.

You might decrease the number of sprains and contusions, but the number of fatalities would skyrocket, I'd suspect.

[obelixtim 100]

Cost a fortune in wrecked AADs, altimeters and radios.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Phil1111 908]

Standby water rescue boats MUST be available anytime a DZ is close to water. Wind can aggravate the landing and pickup. Tangled lines and possible canopy damage requires people in the boat with training. Everyone in the equation must be excellent swimmers.

With training anything can be done.

The premise that this idea will reduce injuries because a water landing is softer is fatally flawed.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Only if one of the jumpers is totally new, you do a speed star where everyone (including the guy wearing swim fins) gets in, you can talk in freefall, you break off at 2k, fall for another 15 seconds, start to argue about pulling at 1k, fall for another 10 seconds, then pull and open at about 100 feet (no snivel).

Seriously, this is a terrible idea.

Damage to gear, risk of drowning, simply having to dry out all the gear (and the student) after each jump.

While there are ways to mitigate the risks, there is no way to make this sport safe. If you aren't willing to accept the risks, if you aren't willing to face the simple fact that stepping out of that door may be the last thing you do, then don't jump.

Take up tiddlywinks. Stay away from croquet. The mallets can hurt.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[mr2mk1g 10]

Crazy idea. In the UK you wouldn't even get authorisation to open a dropzone that would cater to first jump students anywhere where there's a realistic prospect of them ending up in water - never mind deliberately dropping them in it.

I used to instruct at one where we had some artificial recreational lakes about 1 mile from the edge of the DZ (and it was a big ol' military DZ - jump-run for a pair of static line students out of a turbine would run in, dispatch and reverse course without ever leaving the perimeter track). We had to have a specific exemption and had to do water landing training on the FJC even though they'd barely have a chance of getting close and even if they did, it would have only come up to their waist (old gravel strip-quarries). The only other DZ close to water is B-licence and above and has an alternate landing area in-land for A licence or lower.

[jimjumper 25]

Might be a little tough on the reserves. Airing and packing after each jump....

[bibliwho 1]

Agree that this is a terrible idea. Keep students on radio longer, give 'em even bigger/ more docile canopies, use a fancy VR simulator -- anything but water landings.

FWIW, risk for AFF students is "only" 3x greater, not 6x. That figure applies to "conventionally" trained students, whatever that means.

[dthames 0]

bamber

What is your opinion of students making their first jump over water, since it is a softer landing. Students have 6 time the rate of injuries than the licensed. This is if they can pay the extra cost.

Quote

The risk of an injury event of any kind was six times higher per jump for students than for licensed skydivers.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsmed/cusm_events/2014-Extreme-Sports-Medicine-Congress/Documents/Presentations/Injuries%20in%20Skydiving.pdf

Love it....if you die, that doesn't count as an injury.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[chuckakers 369]

bamber

What is your opinion of students making their first jump over water, since it is a softer landing. Students have 6 time the rate of injuries than the licensed. This is if they can pay the extra cost.

Quote

The risk of an injury event of any kind was six times higher per jump for students than for licensed skydivers.

http://www.ucdenver.edu/academics/colleges/medicine/sportsmed/cusm_events/2014-Extreme-Sports-Medicine-Congress/Documents/Presentations/Injuries%20in%20Skydiving.pdf

Years ago a DZ trained a couple paraplegic guys and had them make water landings for "safety". They had a lot of safety folks in multiple boats and the jumpers were equipped with beefy flotation gear.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[firstime 0]

if I were a DZO , sure @ $4000/ jump to cover at least 4 to 5 boats, new aad's, loss of use with the rig for a few days, rigger cost..... salt water jumps.. no problem.... lets say $15000/ jump. No injuries, maybe a few swimmer ear infections. wow great idea