0
skyfox2007

DZ Culture

Recommended Posts

Good Evening All,
I’m a relatively new jumper with 120 jumps. I’m hopelessly hooked – having bought my own equipment, planned my first boogie for this December, and spent much of my free time reading safety articles, forums, and product reviews. I do have one complaint – however – and it’s one that compels me to ask whether I should invest more of my time and money into this sport: my home DZ and others I’ve visited harbor a social scene that is either exclusive of or outwardly intolerant of fun jumpers. “Cool guys” or “hot chicks” are – of course – the exceptions.

The following are a few snippets from a journal that I’ve been keeping and are no more than 60 days old from the time of this writing:
-X showed up to the DZ today sporting a brand-new jump suit! I approached him and jokingly said, “wow, man…someone might mistake you for someone important!” We shared a brief laugh and that caught the attention of several of the DZ’s long-time regulars. He quickly assumed center stage of the DZ social scene for much of the morning with comments and praise from all-around. Like that popular kid back in 8th grade who shows up to class one morning sporting a new pair of Air Jordan’s, he became the center of everyone’s attention and even made it into our DZ’s latest newsletter edition. I just earned my B-license and past my 100-jump mark with only a single handshake with from the local S&TA to show for either of them.

-There has not been a single weekend this summer where Y has not sauntered around the DZ wearing low-cut tops with her cleavage spilling out all over the place. As a man, I must admit that I’ve taken my fair share of glimpses. But for someone who has fewer jumps than I and has yet to be invited on a single group dive with the DZ regulars, she always makes the Load Organizer’s cut. In fact, she’s one of the first jumpers the LO extends invites too every day she’s out here. I – along with the other new, male fun jumpers – feel like I’m still sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance to play in the game. But someone shows a little skin and suddenly she’s an all-star.

-I took a packing class this evening and wish the packer had called me beforehand to cancel. It was after the last load of the day and so I wrongly assumed that my instructor could provide me with some one-on-one instruction. I arrived to see no fewer than 15 unpacked rigs lying about the packing mat and – after a brief 10-minute orientation – was left to pack my chute on my own. They didn’t even look over to see if I was performing the steps correctly as they were packing other rigs and chatting with a few friends. After an hour or so of sweating and cursing, I decided to call it quits, thanked them for their time, and resolved to find another instructor who could devote his or her full attention on me so that I could learn a thing or two about saving my own life.

-The LO finally invited me on a group dive today. I was beaming from ear-to-ear at the prospect of jumping with some of the more experienced folks and to learn more about RW. Thirty seconds after he had extended his invite, he burst my growing bubble my admitting, “I need you on this load…I get a free jump ticket If I can organize 10 or more and you’re it.” [expletive]

I’ve jumped several other DZs – Raeford, San Marcos (to my deep regret), Mile-Hi, Canyon City, Co., and a few others. The culture at these locations wasn’t much different than what I’m experiencing here. Is this type of BS typical of most DZs? Are there any gems that anyone knows about that I could try in the Ohio-Indiana area with a less pretentious atmosphere? How do you get past that “force field” most DZ regulars place between them and the newbies to the point where they’ll accept you as a member of the team?

-Skyfox-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You're in the unfortunate overlapping experience and gender bubbles. Too little experience to make a jump better, and too much to have someone get paid or dz credit for jumping with a student or just off student status.

Being female doesn't guarantee anything; it didn't do much for me.

But being nice, being there, listening around the fire -- those go towards social and skydiving cred. And asking at manifest who's likely to jump with newbies. Or asking the experienced LO. You're better off going on a four-way with people your experience and better, than a bigger zoom-zoom load.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You might also try checking out a smaller dropzone. Most Cessna dropzones I have found are extremely welcoming to newcomers. They are more family filled and happy to jump with anyone. You may only get to 9500, but they are generally much more willing to interact with visiting or newer jumpers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you hang out after jumping?

Back when I started out I found that after jumping pretty much everyone was willing to talk and answer questions. I learned tons about gear, RW, and canopy flight just by introducing myself and listening to stories.
diamonds are a dawgs best friend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Harden up cupcake - it was the same shit when I started 36 years ago. I was never the most popular kid in the class, but I'm the last one standing.

Get over yourself and get on with it.
2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^^^^^all those are valid points.

Also keep in mind: skydiving has a high turnover rate. After a while, people become jaded to befriending, jumping with, and attempting to bring up people at your level. We've just seen so many quit right after we see them improve and grow to enjoy their company and jumps with them. It sucks on both sides, I know.

Remember how when you were a student and you got stuck at something and didn't think you could hack it? Guess what, skydiving is full of speedbumps like that, and you're up against the social/new guy skill speed bump. Pushing through it is worth it if you want it bad enough.

Start talking to organizers and looking for small ways. Be the guy who will go on a 3 way with a LO or jump with someone with less skill than you. Take coaching. Ask for and look for feedback. Hang out after jumping and listen more than you talk. Go to boogies- and then go again the next year to continue your boogie friendships. Bring beer, or pizza, or cake, or hot chocolate, or whatever; stand by the stuff you brought and introduce yourself and tell people you're looking to find people to jump with who are at your level. Be humble. Apologize immediately and first if you think you might have screwed up (even if you didn't it's a great way to meet someone if, say, you landed close to them standing in the landing area and you're not sure what to say). Start introducing yourself by just saying, "Hi, I don't know you, my nasme is -----". Ask people for advice, and take it! Take all the coached courses and canopy courses you possibly can.

Stick it out and you've got friends and a community at any dz in the world for life. It's worth it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
skyfox2007

Good Evening All,
I’m a relatively new jumper with 120 jumps. I’m hopelessly hooked – having bought my own equipment, planned my first boogie for this December, and spent much of my free time reading safety articles, forums, and product reviews. I do have one complaint – however – and it’s one that compels me to ask whether I should invest more of my time and money into this sport: my home DZ and others I’ve visited harbor a social scene that is either exclusive of or outwardly intolerant of fun jumpers. “Cool guys” or “hot chicks” are – of course – the exceptions.

The following are a few snippets from a journal that I’ve been keeping and are no more than 60 days old from the time of this writing:
-X showed up to the DZ today sporting a brand-new jump suit! I approached him and jokingly said, “wow, man…someone might mistake you for someone important!” We shared a brief laugh and that caught the attention of several of the DZ’s long-time regulars. He quickly assumed center stage of the DZ social scene for much of the morning with comments and praise from all-around. Like that popular kid back in 8th grade who shows up to class one morning sporting a new pair of Air Jordan’s, he became the center of everyone’s attention and even made it into our DZ’s latest newsletter edition. I just earned my B-license and past my 100-jump mark with only a single handshake with from the local S&TA to show for either of them.

-There has not been a single weekend this summer where Y has not sauntered around the DZ wearing low-cut tops with her cleavage spilling out all over the place. As a man, I must admit that I’ve taken my fair share of glimpses. But for someone who has fewer jumps than I and has yet to be invited on a single group dive with the DZ regulars, she always makes the Load Organizer’s cut. In fact, she’s one of the first jumpers the LO extends invites too every day she’s out here. I – along with the other new, male fun jumpers – feel like I’m still sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance to play in the game. But someone shows a little skin and suddenly she’s an all-star.

-I took a packing class this evening and wish the packer had called me beforehand to cancel. It was after the last load of the day and so I wrongly assumed that my instructor could provide me with some one-on-one instruction. I arrived to see no fewer than 15 unpacked rigs lying about the packing mat and – after a brief 10-minute orientation – was left to pack my chute on my own. They didn’t even look over to see if I was performing the steps correctly as they were packing other rigs and chatting with a few friends. After an hour or so of sweating and cursing, I decided to call it quits, thanked them for their time, and resolved to find another instructor who could devote his or her full attention on me so that I could learn a thing or two about saving my own life.

-The LO finally invited me on a group dive today. I was beaming from ear-to-ear at the prospect of jumping with some of the more experienced folks and to learn more about RW. Thirty seconds after he had extended his invite, he burst my growing bubble my admitting, “I need you on this load…I get a free jump ticket If I can organize 10 or more and you’re it.” [.expletive]

I’ve jumped several other DZs – Raeford, San Marcos (to my deep regret), Mile-Hi, Canyon City, Co., and a few others. The culture at these locations wasn’t much different than what I’m experiencing here. Is this type of BS typical of most DZs? Are there any gems that anyone knows about that I could try in the Ohio-Indiana area with a less pretentious atmosphere? How do you get past that “force field” most DZ regulars place between them and the newbies to the point where they’ll accept you as a member of the team?

-Skyfox-



Hey Skyfox,

Don't worry too much about it. Things take time, so do friendships. Keep turning up at the DZ, and show willing and everything will click into place.

Believe me when i say this, YOU DO NOT EVER....EVER WANT TO BECOME 'Y'! I've seen it so many times, she is a walking notch on someones bed post. I'm willing to guess that she never packs for herself? In the UK we call it a tit pack job, get the boys on show and any man will pack for you. Like someone said above she'll most likely date a 'sky god', get free coaching in return for ..... well what ever. Be yourself.

Not sure where your DZ is, but when you say you were left off the organized stuff. How big was it, and at what skill level were the other jumpers? Don't take this the wrong way, but if the dive was to be quite complex or hard? Then maybe it was for your own good? Its dangerous to put someone on a dive that is above there skill level, yes it just might be an FS dive. Whats your tracking like at break off? If its not up to much, then that might be the reason?
When i got into jumping in a big way, i got a few friends who were at the same level, and started to jump and progress together. We then become the people having fun, and then people wanted to start jumping with us. One thing lead to another and before we knew it we were doing ok for ourselves :ph34r:

Just to make you feel better, when i moved to a new DZ where nobody knew me i had to start over again. I went from being a big fish in a little pond, to being a little fish in a big pond and I had to sit on the side lines for weeks before i was asked to go on organized FF jumps. I feel your pain...it sucked ass. But with perseverance it all worked out in the end, and yes i messed up on my first jump. I made a joke out of it and apologized and it broke the ice at the de brief (as well as turning up with a load of cookies as well...that never hurts).

Good luck and have fun.

Andy
At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
See if any of the DZ's near you have coaching camps for new jumpers. I jump at Skydive Elsinore and they have monthly Excel camps where they put 2 or 3 newer jumpers with a coach and jump all day. It is free coaching and working with someone that is trying to teach and make you better.

Yes, a lot of DZ's have small groups of jumpers that hang out together and jump together. They may all be at a very high skill level of free flying or whatever and jump with others that can keep up on those types of jumps. Most larger DZ's have LO's that there purpose is to put you on jumps, jumps that you can be successful and hopefully get better as jump more. Then you can start getting invited to some of the other groups jumps. Just stick it out, it sometimes takes a while to get the skills needed to jump with some groups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And sometimes a group of jumpers specifically plans to jump together for the day; it's not about you in that case, it's about them.

Things were also the same in the 1970's, I wasn't Y, and I, too, am still around.

Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's certainly not universal.

I'm relatively new, like you, and have gotten out to a number of different DZs - I'm fortunate to have a bit of opportunity to travel a bit, and I've made a point of trying to find new places to jump and I've found pretty much everywhere has a bit different character to it - I'd hypothesize that every DZ has a different sort of culture.

That said, there's constants. "Y" exists, to some degree, almost everywhere. At bigger DZs, you may not notice her so much but she's there. The thing is, there's no real need for you to concern yourself about her too much. If you're female, don't be her, and if you're male, keep your distance. That doesn't mean don't be polite or friendly or whatever, just don't get into the weeds there. Nothing good can come of it. Yep, "Y" gets more attention, but who cares?

Everyone can get their moment to be "X" - but not if you're just a fun jumper who shows up and jumps once in a while and doesn't really get involved. Ask questions, take an interest in people there, stay for the bonfire or dinner or whatever else. Hang out on the rainy days and listen to the Skygods talk. You want to know how to get through the forcefield? Just keep being there. Bring out coffee once in a while. Or beer. Or other goodies. Those get conversations going, that's what builds rapport.

I remember when I first returned to jumping (after a really shitty injury while I was a student), after the day was ending, the regulars were planning to go for dinner in town, and I asked rather meekly if I could come along. One of the more outrageous characters (I can't think of a better way to describe him, he's a legend of sorts...) hollers back, "WHY DO YOU KEEP ASKING? OF COURSE." That's really it - become part of that pack of cool kids the way they did - show up.

In my (again, not massive) experience, I've found that asking some of the Skygods questions has led to them offering me all sorts of coaching and advice. I got invited onto a bigway that I totally blew the exit on. I was pretty dejected afterward, but then a couple of them showed me video they had, which showed some of what I did wrong, offered some advice, and then, instead of just never including me again said "we need to get you on some four ways to work on some of this stuff", and now they'll come to me to offer to jump with me. It's pretty awesome.

There's lots of really good advice in the comments - when you go to the Boogie and when you travel to other DZs, meet everyone you can - and make sure you keep in touch. I did Flight-101 at Skydive Elsinore, and most of the people on the course had travelled for it - I keep in touch with most of them now, and whenever any of us travel, we tell each other so that we might cross paths. From that, you'll realize it's a fairly close community and there's a lot less than six degrees of separation amongst skydivers - that helps to get people to bring you along. The turnover rate is pretty high, so it pays to help keep people in the sport. If the Skygods don't help rookies get better and feel part of it all, they eventually will run out of people to jump with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FFS. So "Y" wears low cut tops and immediately is a whore, gold digger, and who knows what else. That kind of attitude pisses me off. I'm not a "Y", but having larger boobs, they tend to stick out sometimes (no pun intended). And I am certainly no whore OR gold digger. And besides, boobs are nice, so why should women have to hide them all the time without being called names?

And you just sound jealous.

Be more proactive - like someone said - ask manifest who will jump with newbies, approach the LO's and ask to be on their jumps, find another newbie who'll jump with you and you guys can get better together.

DZ's can be cliquey, but I think that's just the nature of it. Our DZ is very welcoming to newbies, but I have been to some that can be overwhelming for new people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rover

Harden up cupcake - it was the same shit when I started 36 years ago. I was never the most popular kid in the class, but I'm the last one standing.

Get over yourself and get on with it.



I agree with Rover ^. Harden up a bit snowflake.

skyfox2007

Mile-Hi



I started jumping at Mile-Hi a year ago when I moved to Denver and I call BS on your claim. It's one of the more welcoming dropzones I've jumped at. They do "no-pro sessions" once a month where jumpers under 200 jumps get free coaching and organizing to work on whatever they want. In fact, they had the last one of the year yesterday (10-29-17 - https://www.facebook.com/events/1301948916583757/). So ya... I call bs on your claims. Dramatic and sensationalized IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some DZ's have certain niches for their attitudes. Some are fun jumper focused where they do a lot of low skill level organizing, camps and other activities that are focused on keeping their fun jumpers coming back all the time. Other DZ's do a lot to promote a social scene where they try to throw big parties all the time. Some DZ's have a large focus pumping out as many tandems as possible. There is another DZ that is demo jumping focused where the majority of their experienced jumpers want to get on a high profile demo team.

The issue is the social scene in a lot of these is driven by the manager/DZO. If they are wanting to bring in a lot of cash they focus on Tandems/AFF, if they are in it for fun they end up having a lot of parties, if they are just doing it to get their own fun jumps then the DZ tends to get focused on the fun jumping aspects.

I can advise to get out and see lots of other DZ's - just since a DZ has the largest planes in the area does not mean its the best fit for you.
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
i'm still waiting to drop 30lbs before I go crazy and jump twice a week, so take this with a grain of salt.

I see this all time. In every sport or activity I've done, including work. Some people are just more social or "cool". In BJJ there was always one guy or two that was far more advanced than anyone else in class, in Muay Thai there is always one guy that kicks harder and faster. At work there is always one person that will sell way better and smoother than I could dream. But I don't crave to be that person or expect people to accommodate me just because I am there and participating

Sometimes you have to get choked out, do some choking, throw some kicks take some kicks, display your ability to hang with the big boys. Or don't, not everything is a competition. Most things I do just for my self and no one else's validation

As far as the packing, I would be pissed at that and bring it up immediately especially since I was paying for it. If you feel that you aren't receiving the services that you paid for, take your money else where

Pro tip: The cool kids are usually cool at what they do because they only care about their progress and love what they do, most of the time

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I understand your frustration with not being invited to jump with the LO. We all want to be included and have the opportunity to learn and improve our abilities. But at a certain point you need to take matters into your own hands.

I don't know how busy your dz is but I know that LO's are often quite busy running around doing a job more difficult than herding cats. The best way to get on a jump with an organizer is to go up to him/her and ask when you can get on a load with them. Depending on the skill level and size of the group, the LO might tell you that you don't yet have the skills to safely be part of the group at the moment. If that happens, gather up the other new, male fun jumpers you mentioned and jump with them. If you're not sure what to do, go up to the LO and ask him/her to organize something for you guys. They should be able to give you a dive plan for your group.

This is a great sport with a lot of amazing people and it would be a shame for you to give up something you love because of something like this. Remember that you are the one in charge of all aspects of your skydiving, including your safety, your attitude, and your participation.
"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jump at Xenia. A word of caution, however--they'll ban you forever if they find out you're keeping a journal. WTF man, get over yourself!
"Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so."

Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyfox2007

I – along with the other new, male fun jumpers – feel like I’m still sitting on the sidelines waiting for a chance to play in the game.



Well, there's at least part of your answer.

You've got 120 and a B. There are "other new fun jumpers" sitting on 'the sidelines.'

So grab a couple and go jump. Put together something simple, dirt dive it, figure out an exit and go do it.
Then go do it again. Do it enough and you will find people coming up to you and asking to get on your loads.

Why are you taking a packing class at your level? Admittedly, we can all learn something about just about everything, but you shouldn't need a class at your experience level. Hang out and talk with the packers after jumpings done and talk with them. Or just listen.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To go along with what wolfriverjoe said--take control of your own progression in the sport. There are so many cool resources out there! Grab a couple of the other up-and-coming jumpers who are in the same boat with you, download an app like this: http://www.rhythmskydiving.com/resources/rhythm-101-app, and start building your skills. (note: I have no affiliation with Rhythm, I just think this a totally cool app.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good, funny replies folks. I'm still chuckling at some of them. Frankness and humor sometimes go hand-in-hand. Thank you to the majority of you who gave me something constructive to chew on.

As far as "getting over myself" or "toughening up goes," well, you're entitled to your own opinion. But the truth is we ALL could use a little humility or grow thicker skin couldn't we? Everyone has an ego and no one is the exception.

Take care folks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only "sound" we're all making is that of fingers hitting keys on our keyboards. ;)

Jealousy? Perhaps. But then again, who wouldn't be in that situation? Would you be jealous if some brand-new dude showed at the DZ with half your numbers and got the LO's attention because he put his "mack" on her and he got to fly in a group and learn something new while you got to do another solo?

I agree with you suggestion in taking the initiative - and agree with the many others who have suggested the same. And I've tried that.

But how long - do you think - is too long to wait for the regulars to lower their guard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, just ridicules man. B| OK, allow me to regain my composure here.

Good bit of advice on the packing. This place is insisting I pay.

The LO's can seem a bit standoffish, but you're suggesting I charge right in like a "fresh piece of meat" huh? Well, my hinges don't point in any direction, but at my Mrs., but I suppose I can muster the courage to give Y a run for her money w/o the innuendo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0