Am I being selfish

[JohnMitchell 14]

Placcypaddy

Found the tunnel really hard at first I think rigamortis set in and my muscles are screaming today, got to try and relax a little more I think

I'm guessing you may be using muscles that don't get used much, and in new ways. Also, it takes some work to fly on those cushions of air. It's not a passive experience.

Is the tunnel harder than skydiving. Well, like someone else said, you have to learn to hover in one spot right away, while in the sky you can drift around a bit and not even notice. I love it when my AFF students have tunnel time. I think it's a huge advantage, like learning to ride a bicycle before you hop on a motorcycle.

[Pit76 5]

Here you go

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4857713;page=unread#unread

Not the most elegant man in the air :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXAkuQEWAGs&t=66s

[GoGoGadget 0]

Pit76

Here you go

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4857713;page=unread#unread

Not the most elegant man in the air :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXAkuQEWAGs&t=66s

I laughed out loud when your instructors pinched your nose. Haha

[JohnMitchell 14]

Pit76

Here you go

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4857713;page=unread#unread

Not the most elegant man in the air :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXAkuQEWAGs&t=66s

Clicky

Thanks for those. I've seen worse. You looked like you were having a good time.

[AtrusBatleth 0]

Tunnel can definitely be harder due to how long you go. Skydiving freefall is only 1 minute at a time, with a long break between jumps. I used a tunnel to help me through AFF when I was getting stuck with being stable and not spinning. It helped a lot because I could take the time to really get used to the feel and how body movements made me move without being interrupted by that pesky parachute business. But after 15 minutes (in 2.5 minute rotations) I was EXHAUSTED. You definitely work your muscles in freefall, and any kind of strength training or exercise in general will help you do better in the tunnel.

As for balancing the risk with family, I'm there with you. I've got young kids but thankfully my wonderful wife understood what a passion this activity was for me and has been very supportive. The risk is definitely real. If you take the USPA statistics per year and carry it through assuming a 30 year duration in the sport (which was a reasonable guess in my case), it works out to a 2% risk of fatality sometime in your skydiving career. That made me seriously pause and reconsider, because it's very important to me that my kids have their father and my wife has her husband. I decided to go ahead and do AFF (1 year in the sport is much less risk than 30) and reevaluate as I go. I've read hundreds of incident reports, studied the statistics, etc. Ultimately I concluded what has already been mentioned: there are a lot of choices under my control that can substantially reduce that risk. I'm not interested in swooping or high performance landings, not interested in wingsuits or CReW, jump a large canopy, AAD, RSL, etc. I take it very conservatively. For some that just wouldn't be as much fun, but personally I am completely content "merely" jumping out of a plane on a regular basis.

Max Peck
What's the point of having top secret code names, fellas, if we ain't gonna use 'em?

[FlyLikeARaven 0]

People have already cleared up the safety questions, but I have a couple of suggestions.

If you bring your kiddies to the DZ, please make sure they have enough toys or whatever to stay entertained, and have someone there to watch them while you're jumping or training. Few things are less fun than trying to pack while a toddler is running across your lines and trying to figure out who it belongs to. There are many people who don't like kids, and dropzones aren't always kid-friendly. Your kid will hear questionable language and it'll be up to you to teach them the difference between adult words and kid words. An excited kid running on to a runway or into the landing area or hangar can quickly ruin a good time. That said, the few parents who bring their kids to the DZ I go to are fantastic about keeping them happy and the kids are well-behaved, although we have seen a few nightmare brats.

If your spouse is picking up the slack while you're out jumping, be sure to pay it back. Don't make them be a single parent while you're out having fun. For every full day you're jumping, give them a full day of childcare so they can do whatever they want.

I'm not a lady, I'm a skydiver.

[obelixtim 100]

Wise words.

My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

[Placcypaddy 0]

FlyLikeARaven

People have already cleared up the safety questions, but I have a couple of suggestions.

If you bring your kiddies to the DZ, please make sure they have enough toys or whatever to stay entertained, and have someone there to watch them while you're jumping or training. Few things are less fun than trying to pack while a toddler is running across your lines and trying to figure out who it belongs to. There are many people who don't like kids, and dropzones aren't always kid-friendly. Your kid will hear questionable language and it'll be up to you to teach them the difference between adult words and kid words. An excited kid running on to a runway or into the landing area or hangar can quickly ruin a good time. That said, the few parents who bring their kids to the DZ I go to are fantastic about keeping them happy and the kids are well-behaved, although we have seen a few nightmare brats.

If your spouse is picking up the slack while you're out jumping, be sure to pay it back. Don't make them be a single parent while you're out having fun. For every full day you're jumping, give them a full day of childcare so they can do whatever they want.

No worries there youngest is 12 now plus me & him go snowboarding/skateboarding & fishing all the time so I do my fair share of childminding

As I said it’s more of it being such a high risk sport and feeling guilty for participating in it but hey I can’t keep paying for tandems forever so will have to give it a go

[flyhi 24]

Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

[chuckakers 369]

flyhi

Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

I think it's different for every kid. My two children spent a lot of time on the drop zone, but we always made sure they could pursue whatever they wanted to. They did the sports thing, scouts, etc., but they also lived a great deal of their childhood hanging out with other kids at the DZ. And one of them did realize he could be a world-class athlete. He spent 4 years on Arizona Airspeed and now flies for the PD Factory Team and the US Parachute Team of Canopy Piloting. Apparently he didn't miss much hanging out at the DZ while Dad (and Mom) jumped. His older sister is equally talented, enjoying her passion for teaching and distance running.

As far as I'm concerned, growing up on the DZ was very good for my kids, and all the other kids they hung out with are now in their 30's and all very successful and happy. When I ask them about growing up as a DZ kid, they all say they are glad they did. The skydiving culture was instrumental in shaping them and a big part of what they eventually came to be.

Might not work for everyone, but it worked for my kids.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Placcypaddy 0]

flyhi

Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

So young & single or old and divorced to take up skydiving ?

And as for college fees yes my kids will be paying for them as they need to learn to have responsibilities in life and not keep running to daddy to pay for everything

[gowlerk 1,903]

flyhi

Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

You owe your children responsible parenting. You are not required to organize your entire life around meeting their wants and amusing them. Many recreational skydivers are parents. Lighten up a little.

[Placcypaddy 0]

gowlerk

***Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

You owe your children responsible parenting. You are not required to organize your entire life around meeting their wants and amusing them. Many recreational skydivers are parents. Lighten up a little.

Well I thought the odds of all skydivers having no children or families would be a little crap

And I understand that bettering yourself within the sport requires dedication and time but it all depends on what you want out of it

[Pit76 5]

Quote

Yes you are.

This is your children's childhood, not yours. This is the only one they get. They should be free to explore whatever interests they want that you can afford. They may find that they are world class at soccer, skiing, choir, acting, piano, violin, hockey, horseback riding, swimming, you pick it. Or they might just be good, but not great students. Do you have their college expenses covered? Or are you going to get a couple of thousand jumps in before they go to college and then saddle them with a six-figure debt coming out?

If you opt to jump a couple of times a month, and let them explore the other weekends, realize, you will not be current. This isn't golf. You can't lay off for a few weeks and comeback and figure you will be in the same place you were on the last jump. Without a large experience base, you will not have the skills to pick it right up. You will not be safe to jump with others. In skydiving, if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind.

Harsh. You asked.

Oh well, shall I lock myself up in the basement then and just play with my modeltrains till I'm old and worn out?

Is not that a bit exaggerated? My kids can do whatever they want and can go to college later if they want to. I would even prefer they do Does that mean that I can't jump or that I'm not good enough because I simply can't go every weekend?

To be excellent in something you have to train and practice hard and a lot, or you must be loaded with talent.
I can't do both and I'm not loaded with skydive talent but I have fun up there.
It clears my mind from a hard, stressful week in front of a computer and our 2 kids. There is no peace and quit in the house before 20:30h
I'm just looking forward to jump with a friend or two and I'm happy if I would be able to do that safely. Will I ever participate in an 8 way, bigger or something else? I don't think so because I know I'm not experienced enough, maybe in 10 years if I still jump which I guess I will still do

My first concern is my family and it will always be, but I have a life too. Life doesn't stop when you have kids nor should anyone spend money you don't have.

[SethInMI 145]

Placcypaddy

And I understand that bettering yourself within the sport requires dedication and time but it all depends on what you want out of it

Yes. Many jumpers are like me and take a casual approach. I am proud of the fact that I have been jumping for 16 years, at least 10 jumps a year but never more than about 50 a year, so it has taken me this long to close in on 500 jumps. Many jumpers who have started after me long since quit the sport. As long as you stay within your skill limits, I don't think that this is a problem.

Seth

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[Pit76 5]

SethInMI

***
And I understand that bettering yourself within the sport requires dedication and time but it all depends on what you want out of it

Yes. Many jumpers are like me and take a casual approach. I am proud of the fact that I have been jumping for 16 years, at least 10 jumps a year but never more than about 50 a year, so it has taken me this long to close in on 500 jumps. Many jumpers who have started after me long since quit the sport. As long as you stay within your skill limits, I don't think that this is a problem.

Seth

+1

[massis 2]

New guy pitching in. (@Pit76: fellow Belgian :-) did my first & only Tandem @PCV Schaffen last November!)

I've got a wife, 2 kids, and too many hobbies already. Yet I'm starting AFF this spring. My wife & kids support me (oldest one loves the idea of his dad jumping out of a plane and can't wait to try it, but he's only 6).

I'll be a casual jumper as well, 1 or max 2 days a week, slowly progressing and reserving plenty of time to hang out with the wife & kids. That's just the way life is with a family. I'll probably never get over 50 jumps a year, but that's fine for me.
I spend the other weekends playing with the kids, teaching my oldest some bushcraft (he loves going hammock camping with me) and taking them to sports etc.

Every hobby you have as a parent is somewhat selfish, but also required for your own mental health. Based on my super limited (aka 1 tandem) experience so far, skydiving will be by far the best way to improve my mental health.
Is it dangerous? Sure. So is driving your car to work each morning.

[crapflinger2000 1]

Placcypaddy

Hi I have done a couple of tandems so far but can’t get it out of my head & am seriously considering doing aff course this spring/summer so here’s the question, am I being selfish to take up a high risk sport like skydiving with a young Family ?

That question is one only YOU can answer for yourself.

Plenty of posts already made about other potential downsides beside death. I would not agree that this sport is "intrinsically safe" (you are jumping out of a bloody airplane and depending on a multitude of fallible humans at all times; the people who made your gear, assembled it, packed it, the pilots & the mechanics of the jumpship and all the planes around you at the GA airport you will likely be operating at [you are going to be taking off / flying in planes a lot more than the average Joe], other skydivers, and above all yourself).

You can mitigate all these risks to a certain extent (find a rigger you trust, understand your gear, picks DZs without a rep for shady maintenance, pick who you jump with, etc) but again, you are jumping out of a bloody plane.

If I had the $ I guess I might still be skydiving except for one thing; if all goes to sh*t and I know I am gonna go in, I don't want my last few seconds on earth to be filled with thoughts of "well, I am leaving my son fatherless because I wanted to participate in this sport".

So clearly in my mind I think I would be selfish. Someone could probably psychoanalyze that fear of mine and pick it apart and find some "other real issues" at play there, more than not wanting my son to be sad. Then again I've been to a few memorial services and seen the affect on family members left behind.

Its basically up to you. When I was single I was into it full force. Now my own personal math tells me NO. Plenty of parents still into it and they are fine with it all and that's great. Just not my personal cup of tea anymore.

__________________________________________________
What would Vic Mackey do?

[Mark.Carroll 0]

Paddy, several commenters have already spoken eloquently about the need to be responsible and balanced in all aspects with regard to skydiving (money, time with family, risk, insurance, etc.) and the other pursuits in your life, so I won't comment further on that.

What I can offer is that skydiving and a family don't have to be exclusive. I've enjoyed the sport since college and then got my girlfriend (now wife) into it not long after that. We both have demanding full-time jobs and we have a (now) 17-year old son that we've spent a great deal of time raising, yet we still jump as often as we can (sometimes we have a blast just fooling around with each other in freefall). Of course you'll notice by my jump numbers that indeed we haven't been able to spend a ton of time at the DZ, but we still enjoy it.

And now our son is ready to start AFF in July. He has 6 tandems (minors can do tandems at Mullins' DZ in TN) and right now we're spending some money to get him prepped in the tunnel so he'll get the most out of his AFF.

My point is simply this: skydiving can be a fun part of a parent or spouse's life as long you treat the risk with respect and make sure the hobby fits with all your other responsibilities and obligations.

Hope you're able to fit skydiving into your life.

--Mark

[Placcypaddy 0]

Mark.Carroll

Paddy, several commenters have already spoken eloquently about the need to be responsible and balanced in all aspects with regard to skydiving (money, time with family, risk, insurance, etc.) and the other pursuits in your life, so I won't comment further on that.

What I can offer is that skydiving and a family don't have to be exclusive. I've enjoyed the sport since college and then got my girlfriend (now wife) into it not long after that. We both have demanding full-time jobs and we have a (now) 17-year old son that we've spent a great deal of time raising, yet we still jump as often as we can (sometimes we have a blast just fooling around with each other in freefall). Of course you'll notice by my jump numbers that indeed we haven't been able to spend a ton of time at the DZ, but we still enjoy it.

And now our son is ready to start AFF in July. He has 6 tandems (minors can do tandems at Mullins' DZ in TN) and right now we're spending some money to get him prepped in the tunnel so he'll get the most out of his AFF.

My point is simply this: skydiving can be a fun part of a parent or spouse's life as long you treat the risk with respect and make sure the hobby fits with all your other responsibilities and obligations.

Hope you're able to fit skydiving into your life.

Thank you Mark I have already booked my AFF for the 1st weekend in June