Wrist mount cam for tandem PASSENGER?? +funny cutaway tandem video

[skytribe 16]

baronn

Shuda had his hand on it but, I can say from personal experience (and this video proves it) that the skyhook is much faster at getting the reserve out than using the reserve handle. Not making any excuses here, just stating a fact.

An RSL will activate the reserve after you have fallen the length of the RSL from the departing riser. So the RSL will always beat you to the activation.

However, the RSL/Skyhook is a backup device to correct emergency procedures of pulling the reserve handle after cutting away. That's the way it is taught and that's the way it should be carried out.

Incorrect emergency procedures I believe last year were a big percentage of the US fatality statistics. Two tandems failed to execute the proper procedures.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

skytribe

Incorrect emergency procedures I believe last year were a big percentage of the US fatality statistics. Two tandems failed to execute the proper procedures.

Just had Safety Day on Saturday.

7 fatalities, 29% of the total.

Big topic of discussion.

We even had an "Simulated EP race" where two jumpers were shown a pic of a situation and whoever reacted correctly first won the point. Winner at the end won a case of beer (well, Hamm's).

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[chuckakers 370]

skytribe

***However, the RSL/Skyhook is a backup device to correct emergency procedures of pulling the reserve handle after cutting away. That's the way it is taught and that's the way it should be carried out.

Incorrect emergency procedures I believe last year were a big percentage of the US fatality statistics. Two tandems failed to execute the proper procedures.

Correct and correct.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[tred 0]

Read the comments section on the YouTube video. The tandem instructor from the jump comments when asked about not having his hand on reserve handle. Something along the lines of " One word: skyhook"

[skytribe 16]

So he’s arrogant and complacent enough to disregard his training because of a skyhook which have been known to disconnect (nothing is perfect).

Or do UPT now advocate not pulling the reserve because of SKYHOOK. Not pulling the reserve handle is incorrect emergency procedures, saying anything else is just trying to justify not doing the correct thing.

[DJL 232]

skytribe

So he’s arrogant and complacent enough to disregard his training because of a skyhook which have been known to disconnect (nothing is perfect).

Or do UPT now advocate not pulling the reserve because of SKYHOOK. Not pulling the reserve handle is incorrect emergency procedures, saying anything else is just trying to justify not doing the correct thing.

Look where his hand is when he pulls the handle. I know it's remote but I wouldn't want to risk having my fingers ripped off because I was holding on to the risers when I cut away.

I wonder who/where/how he was trained.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[pchapman 261]

DJL

Look where his hand is when he pulls the handle. I know it's remote but I wouldn't want to risk having my fingers ripped off because I was holding on to the risers when I cut away.

His grabbing the risers was almost like an instinctive 'hang onto something' for leverage or stability.

I knew a TI who did a similar thing but actually grabbed the 3 ring with his left hand when cutting away, leading to a 2-out as the riser didn't release from that side! Luckily no entanglement as the reserve PC went up into the main. The reserve was inflated when he suddenly realized what he was holding and let go. (It was all on video...)

No point in pulling the reserve handle if the Skyhook has already hauled the reserve out before you can react... but one's hand should be on the handle just in case.

[skytribe 16]

Quote

No point in pulling the reserve handle if the Skyhook has already hauled the reserve out before you can react... but one's hand should be on the handle just in case.

So is that what they are teaching tandem instructors now - don't bother pulling the reserve handle because the SkyHook/RSL will beat you to pulling it ?

Please find me one reference to not pulling the reserve handle after a cutaway in any of the manufacturers manuals.

And perhaps lets throw in the lack of a full handles check once out the plane. Perhaps we can take that as optional as well (Sarcasm).

[pchapman 261]

skytribe

Please find me one reference to not pulling the reserve handle after a cutaway in any of the manufacturers manuals.

I assume they don't mention that.

But there's no real reason to pull a handle that's not connected to anything if you feel the reserve is already coming out behind you.

You plan for a "one - two" peel and punch of the cutaway followed by the reserve. You pull one handle, you feel that you've cutaway successfully and are not hung up in any way, but in the second before you can pull the reserve handle, the reserve is whipping out past the back of your head....

Do you have to do something useless because there's no exception listed in the manual? Do you have to do it because there's some magical training value in sitting there under a reserve, hand on the reserve handle, and now peeling it? Well maybe, if you are incompetent at peeling velcro.

By the way, the Sigma manual says this, useful to both our arguments:

Quote

Partial malfunctions:
• Locate and grab both emergency handles
• Pull the cutaway handle with right hand to full extension.
• Ensure a full & clean breakaway.
• Pull the reserve ripcord with the left hand to full extension.
• Assess reserve canopy condition
NOTE: The reserve static line (RSL) is a backup system that should not be relied upon. Always perform
full emergency procedures.

Note the "ensure a full & clean breakaway".

If you want to get hung up on "always perform full emergency procedures", be my guest.

If you say that the manual 'is God', then I can come up with a list of stupid stuff (out of date in the industry) or omitted stuff or incorrectly edited stuff from the UPT Sigma manual for extended periods over the years. Despite the great detail in their manuals, UPT, like everyone else, hasn't always been perfect.

I think this argument can continue all day. I've stated my case.

[DJL 232]

pchapman

***
Look where his hand is when he pulls the handle. I know it's remote but I wouldn't want to risk having my fingers ripped off because I was holding on to the risers when I cut away.

His grabbing the risers was almost like an instinctive 'hang onto something' for leverage or stability.

I knew a TI who did a similar thing but actually grabbed the 3 ring with his left hand when cutting away, leading to a 2-out as the riser didn't release from that side! Luckily no entanglement as the reserve PC went up into the main. The reserve was inflated when he suddenly realized what he was holding and let go. (It was all on video...)

No point in pulling the reserve handle if the Skyhook has already hauled the reserve out before you can react... but one's hand should be on the handle just in case.

I got nipped by catching my finger inside the three ring during opening once. Got me to thinking that I never want to have to decide between a broken passenger on a no flare landing vs ripping my finger off if it really got stuck inside of there and I needed to chop. Huge hypothetical but I decided to change my habits.

As for pulling the reserve, yeah, for the basic practice of it. Never had a Tandem cutaway but I'm due. Knock, knock.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[dudeman17 267]

Interesting discussion of EPs.

The guy definitely should have had his hand on the reserve handle, not the riser. As others have stated, having his hand on the riser could result in an hesitation and entanglement, or an injury that could prevent a reserve pull or correct control of the reserve. I can kind of see some peoples' point that with a skyhook, in the moment it takes to confirm a successful cutaway you're already at line stretch, but as has been said sometimes they disconnect. I have had that happen, and you can feel the difference. Personally, I advocate pulling the handles. Anyone else here old enough to have gone through a static line student program, remember DRCP's? *Shrug*


But what got me to write was this:

wolfriverjoe

[We even had an "Simulated EP race" where two jumpers were shown a pic of a situation and whoever reacted correctly first won the point. Winner at the end won a case of beer (well, Hamm's).

I don't think we should be promoting races to see who's quickest. Yes, we teach students a two hands each handle sequenced EP, but most people at some point will transition to a one hand per handle EP. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen someone on their first cutaway immediately grab both handles and jam them simultaneously and nearly have an entanglement.

Smooth, deliberate and accurate is better than fastfastfast.

[faulknerwn 36]

This reminds me of a story told to me probably 15 years ago by a friend. He was at a big dropzone doing big-way RW. A guy there rushed to do a tandem on a load. He jumped and opened at a normal altitude. He went and loosened up the students harness before doing a canopy check. When he looked up there was something wrong with it (broken lines, big tear? I forget but something that was not spinning but was not something you would want to land.)

He was getting lower by this point and cutaway without his hand on the reserve handle thinking that the RSL would deploy the reserve. It either was never connected on the jump or had become disconnected and he ended up back in freefall with a loose student and fumbling for the reserve handle. Ended up having the AAD fire on him.

Certainly you should always have your hand on your reserve handle because its possible your RSL/skyhook has gotten disconnected and you don't realize it.

[dudeman17 267]

Scary story.

Just to clarify, the skyhook disconnect that I, and I believe skytribe, refer to is NOT the RSL/skyhook shackle disconnecting from the riser ring. That should be part of not only a gear check, but also the final check before getting into exit position, as well as the handles check after setting the drogue. The skyhook disconnection referred to is that the hook connecting the main canopy to the reserve bag can come off, rendering the system a standard RSL.

[skytribe 16]

This is definitely one possibility but also the RSL being disconnected at the riser end - although less of a possibility can happen. Another non-tandem manufacturer recently had a recall on an RSL shackle because of this occurring.

And then depending upon where you are in the world, it appears that some tandem instructors intentionally disconnect the Skyhook/RSL's.

So the thought that its always connected and always will work are really the case. Hence executing the correct procedures and not some deviation from them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

dudeman17

But what got me to write was this:

***[We even had an "Simulated EP race" where two jumpers were shown a pic of a situation and whoever reacted correctly first won the point. Winner at the end won a case of beer (well, Hamm's).

I don't think we should be promoting races to see who's quickest. Yes, we teach students a two hands each handle sequenced EP, but most people at some point will transition to a one hand per handle EP. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's seen someone on their first cutaway immediately grab both handles and jam them simultaneously and nearly have an entanglement.

Smooth, deliberate and accurate is better than fastfastfast.

To clarify a bit:

It was not the fastest to pull the handles. It was first to recognize the mal, choose a course of action and execute that action.

It had to be the correct decision, not just cut it away.

There were two good canopies in the mix. One was 'plain old good', the other had end cell closures. Cutting away either of those would not have been the correct decision.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo