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chasitie

Questions - just did AFF Level 1

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Hey everyone!
Just did my Aff level 1 yesterday - it was so awesome.
I do have a couple of questions.. I need a better way to understand downwind, upwind .. any advice?!
My instructor also said that I could’ve landed on my feet but I kinda just crumbled to the ground lol. Any advice on how to start landing on my feet??
And then one more thing.. how to know when I should start heading to my holding area?

I know that first question should be simple but I just can’t get it.
I’ll be talking to my instructor next time but please feel free to give any advice. Thanks!

1F6D4E52-42A9-4242-8052-6DED6B2FDD22.jpeg

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Spend time working with your instructors until you have the landing pattern down. It is absolutely a safety issue to fly a proper pattern, if you don't, you dramatically increase the possibility of a canopy collision.

In the meantime check out skydiveschool.org USPA's online ground school. The section on patterns has good descriptions and graphics to help you understand the concept. It has a lot of other good information as well. It is good you are reaching out to get a handle on this important part of the skydive. Have your instructors go over the pattern before every jump you make with an aerial view of the airport.


Blue Skies

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Downwind means that you are traveling with the wind. As in the wind is at your back pushing you along and so you go faster. Upwind means you're traveling against the wind, as in the wind is in your face pushing against you so you go slower.

Unless your instructor advises you otherwise, you should head to the holding area immediately after opening, performing a controllability check and checking the status of the traffic in the air. You dont want to mess around wasting altitude practicing turns and whatever else, head to the holding area late and then find that you cant make it there because you wasted too much altitude messing around.

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Westerly

Downwind means that you are traveling with the wind. As in the wind is at your back pushing you along and so you go faster. Upwind means you're traveling against the wind, as in the wind is in your face pushing against you so you go slower.



By faster, that means your ground speed increases. Similar concept with slower.

Ground speed is a combination of wind speed and airspeed.

Wind speed is what the weather gives you. Without input from you, your airspeed is constant and equals what John LeBlanc and his elves give you.;) Ask your instructor. He/She will explain.
Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics.

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Westerly

Downwind means that you are traveling with the wind. As in the wind is at your back pushing you along and so you go faster. Upwind means you're traveling against the wind, as in the wind is in your face pushing against you so you go slower.



True in one general way of understanding things, and I know what you mean, but I'd reword it. For jumpers who don't already understand winds it can contribute to a massively wrong understanding of flight.

The wind isn't pushing against you in the sense of a force on your back or in your face.

Instead you always feel the wind in your face as the speed you are travelling through the air. Just that the block of air you are in is moving, as "there is wind". If going downwind you are moving in the same direction as the wind - so the wind speed and forward speed of the canopy add up for more speed over the ground. If going upwind, one speed is subtracted from the other -- you are heading towards the direction the wind is coming from.

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One way to better understand "upwind" and "downwind" is to replace the "wind" with "stream".

If you are in a river, going with the current takes you downstream. Going against the current takes you upstream.

For the pattern, we typically do a standard, rectangular landing pattern. Downwind leg, going with the wind, opposite the landing direction, past the intended landing point. 90 degree turn to the base leg, which takes us across until we are in line with our landing point (where the landing point is directly upwind). 90 degree turn to the final approach leg, where we fly straight into the wind to the landing point.

The actual layout of the pattern, particularly the points where you make your turns, can vary due to the wind.

It's a bit easier to understand with airplanes because the the pattern is lined up with the runway being used for landing. Landing a parachute can be a bit different because, if the landing area allows, we can land in just about any direction we choose - it doesn't take a long runway to land.

As noted, this is important. Make sure you understand the landing direction, proper pattern, holding area and the altitudes you should be making transitions and decisions at.
Most DZs have an aerial photo for this. Many have them laminated and use dry erase markers to lay out the appropriate pattern for the conditions at that particular time.

Last - Don't worry a whole lot about standing up the landing. Doing a proper PLF can save your butt. It's really easy to focus so hard on a stand up landing, and not PLF when you should, and end up with a sprained ankle, knee or worse.

If everything goes right, you may find yourself just above the ground, moving quite slow as you finish your flare. If that happens, then you just put your feet down and walk or run out the landing.
Otherwise, just roll with it. (Sorry, couldn't resist :P)

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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It’s my crazy way......
Think of being in a car and the window is down. You’re going 70 down the highway.
Stick your hand out. (If u do this in real life plz drive safe, this is just what I think about)
You feel the wind push your hand back. Now push forward. That’s going “into” the wind, when you relax, the force of the wind wil pop your hand back pretty quick.

Basically, upwind, is pushing into the wind. It slows u down. If your going downwind, it speeds u up, all the force is pushing on your back. It’s just what came to mind when I was learning that a few months ago.

It all gets better from here! Blue skies!
I might be a little obsessed....

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Think of it this way... go for a run on a really windy day.

Run with the wind behind you (DOWN WIND), you'll find it easy and cover a load of ground (if you look between your feet 'quickly' under canopy you'll see the ground going under you faster). Hence why the holding area is always up wind.

Now run with the wind in your face (IN TO WIND), you'll find it harder and won't you won't cover as much ground (again look down at the ground below, it should be moving slower).

Disclaimer.... Don't spend too much time looking down and forget about clearing your airspace.
At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

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I have to say that neither the andym or jbelanger answers are that helpful. While there is some truth to the analogies made, and "as an experienced jumper, I personally know what you mean", they are fundamentally bad because they will deceive a novice. The problem is that the examples involve being anchored relative to the ground in some way.

When driving with a hand out the car, or jogging on the ground, you feel the difference when going upwind or downwind. Which you don't when under parachute!!!!!!!!!!

Those sorts of comparisons is why jumpers get incorrect ideas about the wind, like "If you are going downwind, spread yourself out to catch the wind, to allow you to travel further."

The comparison one needs to make has to be something like sitting in a boat in a current, or in a blimp in the sky.

There you simply float with the current or air mass, feeling zero water flow or zero wind, until you start motoring up or downstream or up or downwind. In which case, you feel only that current or airflow equal to how fast one is travelling through the current or air --- If you close your eyes, you have no idea which direction you are going or how fast relative to the ground.

Using the right analogies is vital if one wants to avoid new jumpers from getting an incorrect understanding of how flight and wind works.

Thanks.

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gowlerk

I've never understood why some people have so much difficulty with this simple concept. The air mass is moving, you are in the air mass and are part of it. You and your parachute are one with the air. Period.

Probably because air is invisible but the ground is not. As such, people will correlate their movement with the ground as that's the only reference to determine how fast they are going and in what direction.

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I did my AFF LVL 1 & 2 this weekend. Managed to land on my feet for lvl 1 in no wind at all, but my body position (extend legs!) and altitude awareness (let myself get distracted by the camera guy :( ) needed some improving.
While the concepts of downwind, upwind and groundspeed were already clear to me, they got a WHOLE lot more obvious when I pulled during my lvl 2.

Before takeoff my JM told me there was quite a bit of wind at 2000-5000ft, and that I had to make sure I didn't overshoot the landing zone on my basewind leg and then fail to make it back.

So I pulled, did my canopy checks, flew downwind to the holding area and then turned into the wind to check how bad the wind was. (last one out of the plane, verified there was no traffic around so I had all the time & space to maneuvre) Looked down, and realised my groundspeed was actually 0. I was hovering... Quite a surreal experience.

I then proceeded in the holding pattern down to 1000ft and started my circuit. The downwind leg was actually across the wind, so I had to crab the entire leg (which was pretty awesome honestly), turned into my base leg, then into my final approach and came down softly for an uneventful landing. Wore pretty darn slick shoes so I ended on my butt, but who cares?

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massis

Wore pretty darn slick shoes so I ended on my butt, but who cares?

Generally you want slick shoes in skydiving. Later on when you get better you will be able to slide in on your feet, but you cannot easily do that with shoes that have a lot of tread/ grip. Most skydivers around my parts wear skater shoes. I use cheap running shoes as they tend to be pretty flat on the bottom with minimal grip.

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Westerly

***Wore pretty darn slick shoes so I ended on my butt, but who cares?

Generally you want slick shoes in skydiving. Later on when you get better you will be able to slide in on your feet, but you cannot easily do that with shoes that have a lot of tread/ grip. Most skydivers around my parts wear skater shoes. I use cheap running shoes as they tend to be pretty flat on the bottom with minimal grip.

I've been thinking about this and see lots of both at the DZ, slick sole skateshoes and running shoes with threads. Most landings I've seen involve people walking/running instead of sliding (we'll be quite a few years in the future before I even consider swooping, so let's leave those out for now).

However, my shoes are SO slippery I've done 3 faceplants with them over the last few months just walking around on normal surfaces, so for now I'll opt for a bit more grip. I've bought cheap running shoes (€20) with slight threads all pointed backwards. Seemed to work just fine for my first jump. (the fact that I was coming down on a solo 250 @0.92 WL in a slight headwind breeze probably helped :-) )

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