AFF Level 4, failed twice

[ninjagogo12 0]

Hi all, So last week i did my ground school training and started my AFF, weather wasnt the best, couple of days was halted due to high winds and low clouds but still managed to get 5 jumps in, level 1, 2 & 3 went smooth as, level 4 however things just went to s#*t!, started my turn and just couldnt stop it so my instructor had to stop the spin, same thing on the next retake.
Off to the tunnel again tomorrow for another 15 minutes to hopefully sort any issues. It seems like my body is twisting to the side, then my right arm dropped down and no matter how hard i tried i just couldnt correct the spin.
If anyone has any advice i'm all ears.
Cheers

[Westerly 61]

It's not uncommon. There are plenty of videos on YouTube of students spinning all over the place. You'll get it. It's not that hard to stop a spin, it just takes a bit of practice. If you let up the arm that is causing the spin and return to a neutral arched position, the spin will stop. If you want it to stop faster, you return to a neutral belly position and use some input on the opposite arm until the spin stops.

Also keep in mind that it is possible (very effective actually) to spin using your legs. In fact, your legs can spin you harder than your hands can, so if you're bringing your knees down toward the earth, or out to the side that could easily cause a spin even if your arms are neutral. Later once you have your A license if you get into formation flying you'll actually learn to use your legs to turn as they are more effective.

[davenuk 7]

a problem shared....

i did -
aff level 4 twice
aff level 5 thrice
aff level 6 twice

all the same, all unintended turns.

first console jump - couldnt stop turning
second console jump - span so fast i dumped at 7k (if in doubt - whip it out).

fifth console jump - still turning, balled up, reset, just held it....

and that was it... my fifth console was the first jump where i actually relaxed, felt it, and was stable for the rest of the ride down...

i'm on 253 now. :)

the tunnel is great, maybe try a session where the instructor doesnt get you to do anything, you just spend a minute or two flying yourself, your own thoughts, doing whatever you want, that really helped me.

hang in there kitty!

[Maddingo 21]

We naturally tend to twist in the direction we want to turn then don't know how to go neutral again. You probably twisted to the direction you wanted to turn then became anxious, got tight in that position and only tried to stop the turn with legs or arms. It does not work. Always look straight ahead into the horizon. Airstream is very sensitive to body input.

[Slimrn 6]

I failed AFF6 twice. Pulled high one time. Unintended spinning. It was all due to unawareness of leg position. Legs have to be stronger than you think in the wind, while still being relaxed. It’s like a golf swing- it all comes together at some point. I was spaghetti legs. Seeing it on video helped me. Good luck!

[ninjagogo12 0]

Thanks for the replies, it was getting quite frustrating tbh, here is a link to the 2nd failed attempt, looking at the clip my arm seems to be all over the place, frustration setting in then at pull time humbling for the handle.

https://youtu.be/RViQdGDrQVI

[chuckakers 417]

Don't get discouraged. If skydiving was easy the boring people would do it and we'd go do something else.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[timski 80]

ninjagogo12

Hi all, So last week i did my ground school training and started my AFF, weather wasnt the best, couple of days was halted due to high winds and low clouds but still managed to get 5 jumps in, level 1, 2 & 3 went smooth as, level 4 however things just went to s#*t!, started my turn and just couldnt stop it so my instructor had to stop the spin, same thing on the next retake.
Off to the tunnel again tomorrow for another 15 minutes to hopefully sort any issues. It seems like my body is twisting to the side, then my right arm dropped down and no matter how hard i tried i just couldnt correct the spin.
If anyone has any advice i'm all ears.
Cheers

I too was not a "perfect" student and repeated a level for the exact same reason. This was before the day of GOPRO and when my instructor showed me what i had done and more importantly how to corrected it, I was more than a little pissed. How could I have screwed up something so simple was my thought...

So for me it really was simple and from that day forward stopping turns was in the past. What worked for me: EVERYTHING revolves around a strong arch, from there and a good neutral body position is going to help immensely. Be aware of what the legs are doing, done by toe taps or touching feet to butt and the opposite, extending them... again, think neutral. What is neutral? The only way to be sure is to have someone else right next to you! Don't make the rookie mistake of jumping alone. Just don't.

So about turns. Super easy, dip an elbow in the direction you wish to turn, looking prior to starting naturally. Come back neutral and dip that opposite elbow to stop said turn... return to neutral. Does this make sense? I use rather aggressive stabbing movements for quick turns and stops. Hope this helps.

[Maddingo 21]

Pause the video at 0:26 and look at your form, look at your spine. You are creating a sideways u shape. That what kept u spinning. It started tiping you over, you were loosing air on one side while pressing on the other. If he would let you eventually you would spin on your back.

[dthames 0]

Maddingo

We naturally tend to twist in the direction we want to turn then don't know how to go neutral again. You probably twisted to the direction you wanted to turn then became anxious, got tight in that position and only tried to stop the turn with legs or arms. It does not work. Always look straight ahead into the horizon. Airstream is very sensitive to body input.

Sort of a funny story that I can share (I was a bit of a slow learner so stopped AFF and went to SL). Learning static line I was told to do a 10 second delay and if I was on heading at 10 seconds, then I could go to 15 seconds.

On exit I started a slow turn. I felt like I was in control but if I tried to reverse the turn and get back on heading, I figured I would screw it up. So I allow the turn to continue and got the feel of the steering a bit. I had picked out a lake on the horizon before exit as my heading marker. I just watched for it and when I was pointed to it, I stopped the turn. I was on count 9 or 10 by then, and took my delay on to 15 seconds. That was one of the jumps that I really felt like I was starting to “get it” on.

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[timski 80]

Maddingo

Pause the video at 0:26 and look at your form, look at your spine. You are creating a sideways u shape. That what kept u spinning. It started tiping you over, you were loosing air on one side while pressing on the other. If he would let you eventually you would spin on your back.

Soooo, after watching the video I'd say it's obvious what the problem is, but I get that it's YOUR fourth jump! Stay current my friend, BEST advice I can give anyone. Oh and relax and arch hard.

[johnmatrix 21]

Same thing happened to me. A lot of people fail that one.
Apparently my DZ's record holder for failed AFF 4s failed it 34 times. But he eventually did it.

My instructor told me I needed to relax and let my arms and legs sort of trail upwards while I was arching, like a shuttlecock, and that advice worked. Now here I am.

Stick with it.

[ajay 1]

Slimrn

It’s like a golf swing- it all comes together at some point. I was spaghetti legs. Seeing it on video helped me. Good luck!

Except theres only about 5 people on the planet who can seing a golf club properly!

blank

[Bob_Church 7]

ninjagogo12

Hi all, So last week i did my ground school training and started my AFF, weather wasnt the best, couple of days was halted due to high winds and low clouds but still managed to get 5 jumps in, level 1, 2 & 3 went smooth as, level 4 however things just went to s#*t!, started my turn and just couldnt stop it so my instructor had to stop the spin, same thing on the next retake.
Off to the tunnel again tomorrow for another 15 minutes to hopefully sort any issues. It seems like my body is twisting to the side, then my right arm dropped down and no matter how hard i tried i just couldnt correct the spin.
If anyone has any advice i'm all ears.
Cheers

My oldest and best friend in skydiving is known as Flatspin. Guess why? He even got it on an award at the 1977 Xenia Christmas Party. And he's still a skydiver.

[dacordive 0]

First at all don´t overthink this issue and then some small things may help...

-breath and smile
-relax (smiling helps to relax)
-don´t fight against the air.

The air is your friend not your enemy ;-)
Mostly when i see someone with that issue and asked some questions i find out that they are not relaxed and try to fight against the air which has effects on the hole body-Position. it is not difficult to fall stable on the belly.

[shorehambeach 9]

Chill ninja

I couldn't get stable and failed levels - its ok.

Although you didn't go on to the next jump these are the things you got right:

Gear check prior to putting on rig
Put rig on and carried out checks.
Had rig checked by an instructor.
Went through dive plan with instructor
Boarded plane
Seat belt on.
Took off belt at 1000ft
Went through dive pland and kept altitude aware in the plane.
Checked gear and had gear checked.
Went through dive plan.
Went too door.
Exited.
Got stable.
Stayed altitude aware.

(ok a bit of a turn but nothin that a few more jumps wont solve)

Locked on to alti.
Pulled.
Canopy check.

Went to holding area.
Carried out a landing pattern.
Flared (i hope.
Landed.

So dont' break your balls over a little turn.

Incidentally - I am not an instructor - but wave off before you pull

[BIGUN 1,230]

So you have maybe what... 3-5 minutes of experience in skydiving? How many performance-oriented sports do you think one can master in that period of time. Trivia: You know how many people flunked more than one dive in their AFF and went on to become champions in many types of disciplines? Bunches.

Don't overthink it. Relax. Have fun. Do as your Instructor recommends. That is all.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[kat00 11]

AFF is frustrating. Don't get down on failing it twice. The tunnel will help out but make sure you tell them you want to work on turns and basic skydiving skills.

Every jump counts and if you land safely, then it was a good jump. Little mistakes can always be corrected.

[ninjagogo12 0]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, really appreciated.
So on Thursday night i had another trip to the tunnel for some coaching, what can i say, i feel so much more confident now, she gave me a few tips and a couple of positional tweaks and results i think speak for themselves.
Just need some decent weather now to re-do the Level 4 but i feel ready for it now.

Link below for one of the tunnel flights.
Happy days.

https://youtu.be/3pkUyiME2to

[ninjagogo12 0]

shorehambeach

Chill ninja

I couldn't get stable and failed levels - its ok.

Although you didn't go on to the next jump these are the things you got right:

Gear check prior to putting on rig
Put rig on and carried out checks.
Had rig checked by an instructor.
Went through dive plan with instructor
Boarded plane
Seat belt on.
Took off belt at 1000ft
Went through dive pland and kept altitude aware in the plane.
Checked gear and had gear checked.
Went through dive plan.
Went too door.
Exited.
Got stable.
Stayed altitude aware.

(ok a bit of a turn but nothin that a few more jumps wont solve)

Locked on to alti.
Pulled.
Canopy check.

Went to holding area.
Carried out a landing pattern.
Flared (i hope.
Landed.

So dont' break your balls over a little turn.

Incidentally - I am not an instructor - but wave off before you pull

Thanks for the comments, i can be my own worst enemy sometimes over analysing things and beating myself up about things but i feel much better prepared for my next jump now Its not until lvl 5 before we are introduced to wave off at pull time, which i am hoping might be tomorrow if the weather is nice.......for once lol.

Cheers

[wolfriverjoe 1,464]

Well, it's good to hear that you seem to have a handle on it (or at least think you do).

Good luck.

Have you read the Skydiving Duck cartoons yet?

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[jbelanger86 0]

RELAX....
Easier said than done I know. Once u relax you will do better. :) And that just comes with time. Hang in there!

I might be a little obsessed....

[andym148 2]

Hey Ninja,

Don't sweat the little things. That was not bad at all...trust me i've had worse students! (And i failed level 4 twice and lets not get started on lvl 5!)

Apart from your crazy arms... try and look in the direction you want to go in. Unless your a barn owl the body has to stop or else your head will unscrew (hence pick your heading). You look like your looking under your (left?) arm try looking over it and keeping your head up will help your arch as well.

Have fun in the frosty UK.

Andy

At long last the light at the end of the tunell isnt an on coming train!!!

[betzilla 56]

I know a guy who, as a static line student, failed his PRCP (practice ripcord pull) jumps like 30 times. He kept flipping through the risers while he was pulling the dummy handle. He persevered and became an exceptionally fine AFF/I and Tandem I/E.

Lots and lots of people have trouble. Don't give up. And if you become an instructor one day, you'll be better at it for having struggled as a student.

[Dutton 0]

I have a buddy that failed Level 4 9 times. He finally got himself unfucked after his instructor told him to take up bowling.

Understand that on the ground body position doesn't really matter. If you want to turn around you can just twist your body and face the other way. Freefall is exactly opposite, you use small changes in a fixed body position to move. You just have to be able to be relaxed enough to be able to feel your body position and be able control freefall.

That's the hurdle.

Good Luck.