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ninjagogo12

Packing Nightmare

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riggerrob

Slider is the first part to catch air, making it the most important. Keeping the slider hard up against the stops is very important!
Since the top skin is the last part to catch air, it is the least important.



Agreed! I said one of the most important because a line check is also very important.

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LeeroyJenkins

***"Yes, so when the canopy balloons up on the slider side all the flaking is negated and the slider probably moves around too. It makes even less sense when you realize you are shoving air further into the tail as opposed to away from the tail and towards the nose. "

Strange, it's never done that for me in hundreds of pack jobs, but if that's your experience then what can I say.




Thank you for verifying that nothing you say regarding packing should be taken seriously.

To OP: Do not push the air towards the bottom. Slider control is one of the most important aspects to packing. Get with you DZ packers and they will show you the way. Also don't stress too much about the top skin, it really doesn't matter.

At least you've done a good job of stressing the importance of getting local help.

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As always.... consult with your instructors and packers, and plenty of practice.

I learned to “psycho” pack as a way of avoiding the s-fold. The name gives it a bad rap, and I’ll probably catch a lot of flak for even mentioning it, but I’ve found it to give me better openings then I was getting from a “pro” pack. There are a few things to watch out for (remembering the half line twist, proper placement of the bridle to avoid friction with the canopy), but I like having the ability to change the speed of my opening by varying the way I roll the nose.

Having a few different experienced jumpers talk you through their pack jobs was extremely helpful for me as well.
Sun, Fun, and Blue Ones


Respect Existence, Or Expect Resistance!

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Highradwarrior

As always.... consult with your instructors and packers, and plenty of practice.

I learned to “psycho” pack as a way of avoiding the s-fold. The name gives it a bad rap, and I’ll probably catch a lot of flak for even mentioning it, but I’ve found it to give me better openings then I was getting from a “pro” pack. There are a few things to watch out for (remembering the half line twist, proper placement of the bridle to avoid friction with the canopy), but I like having the ability to change the speed of my opening by varying the way I roll the nose.

Having a few different experienced jumpers talk you through their pack jobs was extremely helpful for me as well.



I know several people that I really trust who like the psycho pack. Maybe it's time to take a lesson from pro packing. Back in the 90s a friend was showing me this new way to pack, a pro pack. But as I watched it became familiar "oh, you mean a trash pack." "uh, we don't call it that anymore."
Maybe it's time the psycho pack got a respectable name.

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Bob_Church

No. You flake out the canopy and lay it down. Then you tuck the sides in until it's the shape of a cigar. Then, as I was taught, you put your knees on the base of this tube and use your arms to squeegee the air to the top.
That's the normal way, or at least the way I was taught and how I see others packing.
But for ZP pushing the air up doesn't make sense. I kneel on the top of the canopy, and squeeze the air down towards the other end where it's open.

Makes sense to me, Bob. H8RS gonna H8 on ya. F-em. :D

One thing that helps me? S-fold the top 2/3rds of the canopy, put it in the bag, then S-fold the last 1/3rd of the canopy, the bottom part, into the bag, just like we used to do when we packed round canopies into bags.

To the OP, there a dozens of little technique things that make packing much easier. Watch, ask for help, copy, imitate, learn. You'll get it, brah. B|

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JohnMitchell

***No. You flake out the canopy and lay it down. Then you tuck the sides in until it's the shape of a cigar. Then, as I was taught, you put your knees on the base of this tube and use your arms to squeegee the air to the top.
That's the normal way, or at least the way I was taught and how I see others packing.
But for ZP pushing the air up doesn't make sense. I kneel on the top of the canopy, and squeeze the air down towards the other end where it's open.

Makes sense to me, Bob. H8RS gonna H8 on ya. F-em. :D

One thing that helps me? S-fold the top 2/3rds of the canopy, put it in the bag, then S-fold the last 1/3rd of the canopy, the bottom part, into the bag, just like we used to do when we packed round canopies into bags.

To the OP, there a dozens of little technique things that make packing much easier. Watch, ask for help, copy, imitate, learn. You'll get it, brah. B|

Someone mentioned practice and I saw a great example of that. Packing my first ZP was a serious pain. It would be all over the place and almost impossible to get into the bag.
Then one weekend at Xenia I paid one of their packers to do it. I saw this guy holding the S-folded canopy in one hand, the bag in the other and just sort of slip the canopy into it. It looked like the easiest thing in the world, but unfortunately when I tried packing it again it was another messy disaster. They have some great packers over there. Practice practice practice.

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Highradwarrior

As always.... consult with your instructors and packers, and plenty of practice.

I learned to “psycho” pack as a way of avoiding the s-fold. The name gives it a bad rap, and I’ll probably catch a lot of flak for even mentioning it, but I’ve found it to give me better openings then I was getting from a “pro” pack. There are a few things to watch out for (remembering the half line twist, proper placement of the bridle to avoid friction with the canopy), but I like having the ability to change the speed of my opening by varying the way I roll the nose.

Having a few different experienced jumpers talk you through their pack jobs was extremely helpful for me as well.




I actually psycho pack since I mostly wingsuit. I’m a bit confused though. I’m not sure how you avoid the S fold part of packing. The way i do it is after flipping it back over it looks like a pro pack and you S fold it into the bag.

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That is the one thing I find that helps someone I am teaching, the most. To the OP, this has been discussed at least 3 times before. So check some of the older threads. I made a video that I posted and sent to some one in a PM. I still have the video if you would like it showing the technique John is referring to.

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Thanks everyone for the tips / advice, some of them making real sense, as has been said its something what will come to me with practice, for the time being this weekend when i am back at the DZ i am going to spend the whole day just packing packing packing, one of the guys i did the course with spent the day there yesterday packing then the last few hours went through undoing twists with one of the packers and today he has his tangle test and if this goes ok he will get his packing cert, so this just proves to me that with practice it will come, just need more practice and a bit of patience while i am in the learning stage :)

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If you are S folding, then you are doing a "psycho" pack.

If you are truly psycho packing, you do a "pro pack" up to the point where you would roll the tall. Then instead of rolling it, you flip it over and lay it on the ground tail side up. Fold the tail/canopy into a triangle, then fold it again into the width of your bag. Once you have the upside down cigar shape, you ROLL the canopy from the bridle attachment point down towards the slider...... then bag it.

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LeeroyJenkins

I actually psycho pack since I mostly wingsuit. I’m a bit confused though. I’m not sure how you avoid the S fold part of packing. The way i do it is after flipping it back over it looks like a pro pack and you S fold it into the bag.

I'm not a rigger or a psycho packer, but a few of my friends pack that way. I've never seen them use an S-fold. They just flip the cocooned canopy over, top skin down, fold the upper corners inward, and then roll it up, from the bridle attachment down to the stabilizers, like rolling up a rug.

Any comments, anyone?

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The roll is the "traditional" psycho-pack. The psycho part, from what I understand, is the flipping it, so that S-folding it also makes it a psycho-pack if you want to pick nits. My first canopy when I got back into skydiving was a Safire 1, and I was told they recommended psycho-packing it. Since I'd only ever flat-packed at that time, I learned the "official" psycho-pack. From, of course, some dude :D

But the roll is part of controlling a slippery-as-whatever canopy. Pity my current one opens like crap when I psycho-pack it, and great when I don't. Such is life; I'll just keep paying for packers when I'm at events at dry places, and packing for myself otherwise. Another 20-30 jumps and I'll be good to go.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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The “roll” is the most important innovation introduced by the psycho-pack. Rolling from the top squeezes out air while helping control the packed canopy.
I never mastered S-folding ZP fabric. I learned rolling many years before hearing about psycho-packing.

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justme12001

If you are S folding, then you are doing a "psycho" pack.

If you are truly psycho packing, you do a "pro pack" up to the point where you would roll the tall. Then instead of rolling it, you flip it over and lay it on the ground tail side up. Fold the tail/canopy into a triangle, then fold it again into the width of your bag. Once you have the upside down cigar shape, you ROLL the canopy from the bridle attachment point down towards the slider...... then bag it.



This is a different psycho pack than the one I know.
Watch this video or read my explanation. Start watching at 2:00 and stop watching at 3:30 My technique is slightly different to flip it but the concept is the same.

https://youtu.be/hGyvLfdTH1k?t=1m59s

Trying to keep consistency in terms here. I do a "pro pack" up to the point where you would roll the tall. Then instead of rolling it, I flip it over and lay it on the ground tail side up. I then open the tail exposing the nose. I dress the nose symmetrically and make sure the slider is nice and neat. Then I close the tail and fold the tail/canopy into a triangle, then fold it again into the width of your bag. Once you have the upside down cigar shape, I flip it back over and S-fold it like normal into the bag.

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>I learned to “psycho” pack as a way of avoiding the s-fold. The name gives it a bad
>rap, and I’ll probably catch a lot of flak for even mentioning it, but I’ve found it to give
>me better openings then I was getting from a “pro” pack.

Nothing wrong with psycho packing; it's just a way to get a packed canopy into the bag.

When you start the pack you do a lot of very important things - ensuring line continuity and placement, flaking the canopy, treating the nose, quartering and bottoming the slider against the stops. (And ensuring it is un-killed and/or reconnected.) Then you finish that, wrap the tail and get that section under control with a knee or weights or something.

At that point you are effectively done. Nothing above the slider/A/B line attach points matters too much, because any care taken there will be instantly undone by hitting the wind.

So the only thing that matters at that point is getting all that fabric into the bag without messing with that critical 12 to 18 inches of canopy under your knee. S-folding works. So does rolling (i.e. psycho.) So does what I think of as the Winsor method, getting the top of the canopy in the bag first then working the rest in slowly. And really, there's not too much difference between any of them - _provided_ you can keep control of the lower part.

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I do a variation on a “Windsor” pack.
I lay the canopy on the floor and use my knees to secure the slider while gently squeezing air out .... with my belly.
Then I fold the canopy in half (top to bottom) and stuff the middle into the d-bag. I keep my knees on the bottom of the canopy, firmly clamping it to the d-bag and to the floor.
Once the top corners of the d-bag are full, I stuff the top quarter of the canopy into the bag.
Finally, I stand the d-bag on it’s top end. I slide my fingers up the lines to confirm that the slider is all the way up, then stuff the slider and bottom of the canopy into the middle of the d-bag.
I keep my weight on the d-bag until the first line-stow is fastened.

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JohnMitchell

***I actually psycho pack since I mostly wingsuit. I’m a bit confused though. I’m not sure how you avoid the S fold part of packing. The way i do it is after flipping it back over it looks like a pro pack and you S fold it into the bag.

I'm not a rigger or a psycho packer, but a few of my friends pack that way. I've never seen them use an S-fold. They just flip the cocooned canopy over, top skin down, fold the upper corners inward, and then roll it up, from the bridle attachment down to the stabilizers, like rolling up a rug.

Any comments, anyone?

Tried it once, gave the smoothest opening I've ever had... Downside is that compared to my usual style (wolmar-pack) it's much slower therefore I dont use it...

It's probaply the easiest way to control a very slippery canopy but all the flipping and stuff takes time compared to other methods...

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The important bit is to flake out the canopy, have nice line groups and have that slider all the way down. Roll it up, put it on the ground and make it into a cigar. The techniques are different and they don't make much of a difference. Essentially you must stuff a whole bunch of fabric and lines into a small bag making the least amount of disturbance possible. How to bag that slippery peace of nylon is a question for a million bucks for every newbie.

And as I'm writing this I'm mentally preparing myself for the packing carnage coming up next week, when I will get my brand new canopy installed.

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I typically pro pack up to the point of laying it down...from there, I open the rolled tail and requarter the slider, and make sure it firmly against the stops. Then depending on the jump I plan on doing, let’s say tracking, I roll the nose cells inward individualy towards the center cell on both sides. I also like to open the center cell and slightly tuck those rolls under the spread out center cell. The tighter you make those rolls, the slower the opening (to a degree).
From there, I pull the bottom corners across to make the triangle, fold the edges up, and roll it up.... making sure to keep the bridle off to one side (to avoid friction with the canopy). Bag it while holding the roll between my legs, and flip the d bag over to take out the line twist before you stow the lines.
There are a few more steps compared to a pro pack, but I find it easier to get the air out by putting a knee on each bottom corner of the triangle, and an arm up by the stops while using my free arm to push out the air. End result is a more even distribution of the fabric for a less lumpier rig when it’s all done.

I can’t even begin to tell you how many people stop and watch me pack, claiming it’s “Black Death”, lol.
Sun, Fun, and Blue Ones


Respect Existence, Or Expect Resistance!

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