2 2
baronn

BOD Meeting July 2018

Recommended Posts

From the beginning in 2002 the USPA BOD wanted to make sure that USPA would not bear any cost of building or operating or maintaining the Skydiving museum. I was at those meetings, I also have been an "unpaid volunteer" for decades. The USPA Treasure at the last meeting said we cannot afforded the Museum project.
Nine Elected BOD Members voted NO on donating $125,000.00
Just the facts please---just the facts.
I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, let's deal with just the facts. Who voted for funding this and who voted against it? Pretty ridiculous that we, as due paying members have to turn into detectives to even get this info. To any BOD, stand behind yer decision. Tell us how you voted.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most of the USPA BOD are on Facebook. When the Candidates Ballot is published on the USPA website their Email should be there. Email will take you to their page.

I suggest a New Subject and Thread get started on just this.
I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
OK, so now we have to find their email, send 1 and hope they return with an answer. What's wrong with them publishing their votes? I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be made more easily available. Don't come on here? No problem, put the results in the monthly rag they put out. Be 1 of the few times it actually published something worthwhile...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is a question about the USPA. Why doesent the USPA (and DZ.com for that matter), include skydivers killed in jump planes as part of the skydiving fatality statistics? Every year jumpers are killed in airplane crashes at the DZ, and I wouldent be surprised if it accounts for ~10-15% of the overall fatalities in skydiving. Yet, they are excluded.

Every dropzone in America, more or less, considers the airplane ride up as part of the skydive. How do I know this? Because it says it right in the waiver. Pretty much all waivers have language relating not only to injury/ death from the jump itself, but also the airplane ride up as well. So why are their deaths excluded from the fatality reports?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>Why doesent the USPA (and DZ.com for that matter), include skydivers killed in jump
>planes as part of the skydiving fatality statistics?

Because a plane ride is not a skydive.

>So why are their deaths excluded from the fatality reports?

They're not. They are included in fatality reports on general aviation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billvon


Because a plane ride is not a skydive.



Well duh.

But does the USPA do an annual report on skydiving-related deaths from aircraft?
Or just the odd article once or twice a decade? I'm not in the USPA so don't know.

Certainly the deaths in aircraft are from drop zone activities directly related to skydiving operations.

The ski industry might be concerned, for example, if ski lifts were constantly toppling over, even if some said, "But that's not skiing!". Yes, the info would be in a separate list to skiing accidents, but still relevant to getting up and down a hill alive.

I suppose it depends on who the USPA represents, DZO business owners, or individual skydivers. I'll let others debate that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>But does the USPA do an annual report on skydiving-related deaths from aircraft?

Nope. But the NTSB does a detailed annual report, and AOPA does regular analyses of GA crashes. Google the Joseph T. Nall report.

>The ski industry might be concerned, for example, if ski lifts were constantly toppling
> over, even if some said, "But that's not skiing!"

Absolutely. And if anything the skiiers were doing affected those failures, I'd expect to see the US Skiers Association (is there such a thing?) get out there and start educating people on how to not make the ski lifts fall over.

But if it's because a batch of Timken bearings is failing, there's not much the USSA can do about it. The right thing to do would be to get operators to replace the bearings, not to generate fatality reports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Nope. But the NTSB does a detailed annual report, and AOPA does regular analyses of GA crashes. Google the Joseph T. Nall report.



So I did. It's here:

https://www.aopa.org/-/media/files/aopa/home/training-and-safety/nall-report/27thnallreport2018.pdf?la=en&hash=C52F88B38FD95CB7C0A43F3B587A12E2692A8502


It does somewhat of a breakdown in non-commercial fixed wing accidents in general. But it provides no information on skydive operations.

The best source of information on skydive related accidents is here: http://diverdriver.com/accidents-by-year/

In my opinion there are far too many incidents considering the size of the industry. But that is just opinion, I have nothing to compare it to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
>The best source of information on skydive related accidents is here:
>http://diverdriver.com/accidents-by-year/

Yeah, that's a great site for skydiving pilots to go to.

Which brings up another reason to separate the two - the audience for the "lessons-learned" aspects of such incidents. It is rare for a skydiver to contribute to an aircraft problem; likewise, it is rare for a pilot to cause a problem in the middle of a skydive. If you have limited time/space/money to get such lessons to people, the Diverdriver site is going to be most beneficial to pilots, and USPA's incident reports are going to be most beneficial to skydivers. (And, of course, both can look at either if they want.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The NTSB has what I think eveyone needs, but it is not easy to find from their main page.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/index.aspx
Try the search. Enter Part 91 and Skydiving in that section.

Download All (XML) is useful if you like seaching in your browser, but it crashed my browser because it has a lot of data..

The "downloadable dataset" used to have pdf files, and there was one for skydiving specific accidents, but that doesn't look like it used to the last time I went there.

Edited to include another link:

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/Results.aspx?queryId=8a2d2f88-f34a-4927-9886-00b6a94fca6d

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bottom line is the FACT that the USPA has major issues and serous conflicts of interests.

The USPA no longer represents it's forced membership.

It is a monopoly, representing the interests of those with vested financial interests.

Every government organization, private equity, health organization, most every member supported organization, etc., has recognized the dangers and consequences of these conflicts of interest and has outlawed, banned, or dissuaded these conflicts in various forms.

But NOT the USPA, the Board actually encourages this line of thinking and many would be correct that the self serving interests of a few, for the sole reason of their personal gain,... well something needs to be done.

If you represent a organization in any way you need to disclose your financial relationships and monetary interests, if in fact your occupation or income is dependent in any way, or you benefit in any way, you should not be eligible to hold "office" in the USPA. It's very simple. And the consequences of this are very apparent for anyone to see. The fatality rate would also decrease. This is just one of the sad facts and consequences of "electing" those with conflicts and selfish motives.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ChrisD2.0

Bottom line is the FACT that the USPA has major issues and serous conflicts of interests.

The USPA no longer represents it's forced membership.

It is a monopoly, representing the interests of those with vested financial interests.

Every government organization, private equity, health organization, most every member supported organization, etc., has recognized the dangers and consequences of these conflicts of interest and has outlawed, banned, or dissuaded these conflicts in various forms.

But NOT the USPA, the Board actually encourages this line of thinking and many would be correct that the self serving interests of a few, for the sole reason of their personal gain,... well something needs to be done.

If you represent a organization in any way you need to disclose your financial relationships and monetary interests, if in fact your occupation or income is dependent in any way, or you benefit in any way, you should not be eligible to hold "office" in the USPA. It's very simple. And the consequences of this are very apparent for anyone to see. The fatality rate would also decrease. This is just one of the sad facts and consequences of "electing" those with conflicts and selfish motives.



1. What conflicts of interest?

2. What would cause the fatality rate to decrease?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

If you represent a organization in any way you need to disclose your financial relationships and monetary interests, if in fact your occupation or income is dependent in any way, or you benefit in any way, you should not be eligible to hold "office" in the USPA.


I think that AFF instructors, DZO's, gear manufacturers, pilots, videographers, demo jumpers, coaches etc make better USPA representatives, not worse representatives.
Quote

It's very simple. And the consequences of this are very apparent for anyone to see. The fatality rate would also decrease.


Why? How would getting rid of every single coach and instructor on the board decrease the fatality rate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

1. What conflicts of interest?




That depends on your viewpoint. Does USPA represent sport skydivers, or the skydiving industry? It can't really do both without conflicts. Since the membership provides it with most of it's revenue, and most of the members are recreational jumpers, there is a ton of conflict in the cozy relationship it has with manufacturers and DZOs.

But mostly the members don't mind. If they did they would do something about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gowlerk

Quote

1. What conflicts of interest?




That depends on your viewpoint. Does USPA represent sport skydivers, or the skydiving industry? It can't really do both without conflicts. Since the membership provides it with most of it's revenue, and most of the members are recreational jumpers, there is a ton of conflict in the cozy relationship it has with manufacturers and DZOs.

But mostly the members don't mind. If they did they would do something about it.



What is the conflict though?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wherever one group pays but another group reaps the rewards there is conflict of interest. It is inherent. There does not have to be examples of problems. But I'm pretty sure others will point some out.

I'll start with the USPA working hard to keep skydiving ops under part 91 of the regs. That is not in the best interests of the people riding the airplanes and paying the dues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gowlerk

Wherever one group pays but another group reaps the rewards there is conflict of interest. It is inherent. There does not have to be examples of problems. But I'm pretty sure others will point some out.

I'll start with the USPA working hard to keep skydiving ops under part 91 of the regs. That is not in the best interests of the people riding the airplanes and paying the dues.



You guys are using conflict of interest in a very weird way. I was looking for actual conflicts of interest with the BOD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

You guys are using conflict of interest in a very weird way. I was looking for actual conflicts of interest with the BOD.




I can't answer to that. I do not know the makeup and occupations of the USPA BoD. I'm making some assumptions about what groups within the skydiving community have influence by inference from the decisions they have made lately. I'm speaking about the organization as a whole.

And I'm not accusing anyone of nefarious behavior to be clear. I'm just saying that the people paying the bills do not hold the power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gowlerk

Quote

You guys are using conflict of interest in a very weird way. I was looking for actual conflicts of interest with the BOD.




I can't answer to that. I do not know the makeup and occupations of the USPA BoD. I'm making some assumptions about what groups within the skydiving community have influence by inference from the decisions they have made lately. I'm speaking about the organization as a whole.

And I'm not accusing anyone of nefarious behavior to be clear. I'm just saying that the people paying the bills do not hold the power.



Conflict of interest wasn't the right term but I understand what you are saying now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account. It's free!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
2 2