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baronn

BOD Meeting July 2018

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Soooooo, The BOD meeting in Wisconsin is now over. As per usual, they decided to pass out awards and the usual blah, blah, blah. An interesting note is the decision to donate 25K per yr for the next 5 yrs to the NSM. Seems every month in Parachutist we hear all about how tight money is and the USPA can't afford this or that. National teams need public support to compete at World meets. And these are the type of decisions they come up with. Does anyone else think this is NOT the best the USPA can do?

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I'm really disillusioned that they back door'd the BSR AFF change. Decreasing safety under the guise of increased learning and promoting wind tunnels with out any evidence other than select BOD members opinions was a real shitty thing to do. In fact the multiple senior members with the most experience on the planet disagreed with the sub-committees opinions, they presented real fact and concerns learned over decades and were ignored. The fact that the BOD is influenced more by cash than safety and has been swayed by this assumption / opinion of a financially vested few speaks volumes about the Current state of the USPA and their motives.
Brett Bickford Did Not Commit Suicide.

He is the victim of ignorance and faulty gear. AND as in the movie: "12 Angry Men," of an ignorant and callous jury.

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Disappointed? Shouldn't even be surprised at this point. Spaceland and Skydive Chicago have been doing Single instructor training ever since Roger Nelson pioneered in the 90's. Do these BOD members even have a clue of what's happening in the Real world? How about doing something about keeping costs down? Less Government restriction (ADSB) and how about recognizing those that try to make a career outta this? Plenty of more important stuff than what is being addressed beside these BS stuff. Jeesh!

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Seems everyone took away something different from this. LOL. I saw the summary and I thought USPA hates small dropzones. The new requirements for B and C license could be tough if you are at c182 DZ. 50 formation jumps with 10 being 4 way or larger when that is the total capacity of the jump ship. Can be hard to schedule all that at a small dropzone. Honestly, even at a larger Cessna dropzone it could be hard to get all these jumps in in only 200 jumps.

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Saw that too. Guess the USPA BOD has decided that small DZ's are only gonna be good for doing tandems. And if yer not near a tunnel, well, yer screwed even more. Remember, these are the same folks that say they "Promote our Sport"
Sure like to know how any of these actions are "Promoting" anything. I'd like to say I'm surprised but, it's just another disappointing action in a long list of disappointing actions. Targeting Dz's, certain DZ owner's, using USPA members against them for revenge. Fuck! They make the Clinton's look like Angels in comparison....

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faulknerwn

I'm glad you said that - I had not seen that. I am going to have to give the jumpers at my Cessna dz a heads up. I wish they would publish these potential changes so that people could chime in with thoughts beforehand. If they do I have not seen it.



Would be great if they did that. Even the FAA puts things out for comment.

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After some digging...for anyone looking for this summer's board meeting summary:

https://uspa.org/Information/News/uspa-summer-board-meeting-concludes-1

Gotta agree with you folks. I wonder if any of the BOD members are carrying water for any of the larger DZs. The B and C license formation requirements will be tough to fulfill at smaller locations. I also feel that the BOD didn't think through the 2nd and 3rd order effects through on this one. The law of unintended consequences suggests that this is a tough financial line for small DZ owners to toe. These requirements could mean lost business and revenues. As if starting and operating a small business in this country wasn't difficult enough already.

The USPA also sold out its US members by choosing to conform to the standards of an international body with no legal right to exercise its influence in the US. I don't like the idea of an organization based in Paris calling the shots across the planet - they're not obliged to represent jumpers in the US or anywhere else and possess little to no incentive to field our concerns.

-JD-

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As a retired jumper that did a lot of solo jumps and most at Cessna dz's, I was concerned about the formation requirements for licenses. Just plain doesn't seem right. What if you just don't do that stuff. Maybe even want to do solo demos someday. I did quite a few back in the day. Maybe not all legal but maybe someone wants to do legal ones. You're screwed if relative work isn't your thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Lord, let me be the person my dog thinks I am.

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skyfox2007

After some digging...for anyone looking for this summer's board meeting summary:

https://uspa.org/Information/News/uspa-summer-board-meeting-concludes-1

Gotta agree with you folks. I wonder if any of the BOD members are carrying water for any of the larger DZs. The B and C license formation requirements will be tough to fulfill at smaller locations. I also feel that the BOD didn't think through the 2nd and 3rd order effects through on this one. The law of unintended consequences suggests that this is a tough financial line for small DZ owners to toe. These requirements could mean lost business and revenues. As if starting and operating a small business in this country wasn't difficult enough already.

The USPA also sold out its US members by choosing to conform to the standards of an international body with no legal right to exercise its influence in the US. I don't like the idea of an organization based in Paris calling the shots across the planet - they're not obliged to represent jumpers in the US or anywhere else and possess little to no incentive to field our concerns.

-JD-



It is ironic that the number of jumps for getting a tandem instructor rating are fairly low in my opinion, but the stated reason by members of the BOD that defend it is that smaller dropzones have trouble getting jumpers to a thousand jumps.

I would have been much happier with more canopy course requirements at each license level, not freefall formation requirements. You know, what is killing and maiming our members still. After over 25 years. The more experienced ones. All the time.

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Dutchboy

Seems everyone took away something different from this. LOL. I saw the summary and I thought USPA hates small dropzones. The new requirements for B and C license could be tough if you are at c182 DZ. 50 formation jumps with 10 being 4 way or larger when that is the total capacity of the jump ship. Can be hard to schedule all that at a small dropzone. Honestly, even at a larger Cessna dropzone it could be hard to get all these jumps in in only 200 jumps.



USPA does not hate small dropzones and everyone on the Safety and Training Committee that is responsible for this sort of action is well aware of the value of our Cessna DZs.

This action was taken solely to bring our license requirements in line with the IPC/FAI "Certificate of Proficiency" which is the world recognized standard for skydiving licenses. Had we not taken that action, it is possible that USPA licenses may not be recognized internationally, especially in international competitions.

For the C License, I personally do not think that having to do 10 4 ways in 200 jumps or having for the B License to do 10 formation jumps with, 5 of them being 3 ways, is particularly burdensome. BTW, AFF jumps count as formation jumps, so anyone doing AFF probably has 3, 3 ways, and 4, 2 ways after completing the AFF program.

Here is the complete list of the Certificate of Competency (world license requirements):

‘A’ Certificate: ‘Parachutist’
1. 25 freefall jumps.
2. 5 minutes of freefall time.
3. 5 formation skydives involving at least two participants OR 5 freefly jumps under the
supervision of an instructor.
4. Demonstrate control of the body in all axes (backloops, turns, barrel rolls etc.)
5. Ability to pack a main parachute.
6. Demonstrate ability to land a parachute within 50 meters of a target, on at least 10
jumps.

‘B’ Certificate: ‘Freefall Parachutist’
1. 50 freefall jumps.
2. 30 minutes of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of ten formation skydives, OR ten formation freefly jumps, at
least five of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 3 participants.

‘C’ Certificate: ‘Experienced Parachutist’
1. 200 freefall jumps.
2. 1 hour of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of fifty formation skydives, OR fifty formation freefly jumps, at
least ten of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 4 participants.

‘D’ Certificate: ‘Senior Parachutist’
1. 500 freefall jumps.
2. 3 hours of freefall time.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

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michaelmullins

***Seems everyone took away something different from this. LOL. I saw the summary and I thought USPA hates small dropzones. The new requirements for B and C license could be tough if you are at c182 DZ. 50 formation jumps with 10 being 4 way or larger when that is the total capacity of the jump ship. Can be hard to schedule all that at a small dropzone. Honestly, even at a larger Cessna dropzone it could be hard to get all these jumps in in only 200 jumps.



USPA does not hate small dropzones and everyone on the Safety and Training Committee that is responsible for this sort of action is well aware of the value of our Cessna DZs.

This action was taken solely to bring our license requirements in line with the IPC/FAI "Certificate of Proficiency" which is the world recognized standard for skydiving licenses. Had we not taken that action, it is possible that USPA licenses may not be recognized internationally, especially in international competitions.

For the C License, I personally do not think that having to do 10 4 ways in 200 jumps or having for the B License to do 10 formation jumps with, 5 of them being 3 ways, is particularly burdensome. BTW, AFF jumps count as formation jumps, so anyone doing AFF probably has 3, 3 ways, and 4, 2 ways after completing the AFF program.

Here is the complete list of the Certificate of Competency (world license requirements):

‘A’ Certificate: ‘Parachutist’
1. 25 freefall jumps.
2. 5 minutes of freefall time.
3. 5 formation skydives involving at least two participants OR 5 freefly jumps under the
supervision of an instructor.
4. Demonstrate control of the body in all axes (backloops, turns, barrel rolls etc.)
5. Ability to pack a main parachute.
6. Demonstrate ability to land a parachute within 50 meters of a target, on at least 10
jumps.

‘B’ Certificate: ‘Freefall Parachutist’
1. 50 freefall jumps.
2. 30 minutes of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of ten formation skydives, OR ten formation freefly jumps, at
least five of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 3 participants.

‘C’ Certificate: ‘Experienced Parachutist’
1. 200 freefall jumps.
2. 1 hour of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of fifty formation skydives, OR fifty formation freefly jumps, at
least ten of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 4 participants.

‘D’ Certificate: ‘Senior Parachutist’
1. 500 freefall jumps.
2. 3 hours of freefall time.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

So do CRW jumps count? as you appear to specifically call out freefly jumps.

Define "successfully complete"? Survived, achieved a physical number of points.

And really if you counting AFF jumps then you are stretching things a bit to count these as formation jumps towards a license ?

IT is also possible that the earth will crash into the sun - however that is not that likely. So the threat the license would not be recognized at international competitions is pretty hollow.

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skytribe

******Seems everyone took away something different from this. LOL. I saw the summary and I thought USPA hates small dropzones. The new requirements for B and C license could be tough if you are at c182 DZ. 50 formation jumps with 10 being 4 way or larger when that is the total capacity of the jump ship. Can be hard to schedule all that at a small dropzone. Honestly, even at a larger Cessna dropzone it could be hard to get all these jumps in in only 200 jumps.



USPA does not hate small dropzones and everyone on the Safety and Training Committee that is responsible for this sort of action is well aware of the value of our Cessna DZs.

This action was taken solely to bring our license requirements in line with the IPC/FAI "Certificate of Proficiency" which is the world recognized standard for skydiving licenses. Had we not taken that action, it is possible that USPA licenses may not be recognized internationally, especially in international competitions.

For the C License, I personally do not think that having to do 10 4 ways in 200 jumps or having for the B License to do 10 formation jumps with, 5 of them being 3 ways, is particularly burdensome. BTW, AFF jumps count as formation jumps, so anyone doing AFF probably has 3, 3 ways, and 4, 2 ways after completing the AFF program.

Here is the complete list of the Certificate of Competency (world license requirements):

‘A’ Certificate: ‘Parachutist’
1. 25 freefall jumps.
2. 5 minutes of freefall time.
3. 5 formation skydives involving at least two participants OR 5 freefly jumps under the
supervision of an instructor.
4. Demonstrate control of the body in all axes (backloops, turns, barrel rolls etc.)
5. Ability to pack a main parachute.
6. Demonstrate ability to land a parachute within 50 meters of a target, on at least 10
jumps.

‘B’ Certificate: ‘Freefall Parachutist’
1. 50 freefall jumps.
2. 30 minutes of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of ten formation skydives, OR ten formation freefly jumps, at
least five of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 3 participants.

‘C’ Certificate: ‘Experienced Parachutist’
1. 200 freefall jumps.
2. 1 hour of freefall time.
3. Successful completion of fifty formation skydives, OR fifty formation freefly jumps, at
least ten of which, in either discipline, must involve at least 4 participants.

‘D’ Certificate: ‘Senior Parachutist’
1. 500 freefall jumps.
2. 3 hours of freefall time.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

So do CRW jumps count? as you appear to specifically call out freefly jumps.

Define "successfully complete"? Survived, achieved a physical number of points.

And really if you counting AFF jumps then you are stretching things a bit to count these as formation jumps towards a license ?

IT is also possible that the earth will crash into the sun - however that is not that likely. So the threat the license would not be recognized at international competitions is pretty hollow.

I am not "specifically calling out anything", the requirements come from IPC/FAI, not me, not USPA.

As for your question about defining "successfully complete", here is the definition of formation skydiving from the USPA SIM Glossary:

"FORMATION SKYDIVING (RELATIVE WORK): 1.
Aerial maneuvers by two or more freefalling skydivers with each other, usually to form geometric formations. 2. Competition discipline of flat-flying."

A successful completion would be to complete at least one formation, you pick the formation. And, yes, AFF student jumps are indeed formation skydiving and they would count.

CRW jumps do not count by the definition of "formation skydiving" as mentioned above.

As far as the likelihood of a competitor being prevented from competing, that is actually a real possibility. Also, our new membership cards have the following statement:

"International Parachutist Certificate
All USPA Licenses meet or exceed the requirements for International Parachute Certificates of the same letter (A,B,C or D)."

The above statement would not be true without the changes.

And, as far as the likelihood of the "earth crashing into the sun", yes, indeed, the earth will actually crash into the sun in 7.6 billion years when the sun becomes a red giant and absorbs the earth.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

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Mike, thank you for letting us know the reason for the change.

It doesn't seem very much of a burden, when we realize what qualifies.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Dutchboy

Seems everyone took away something different from this. LOL. I saw the summary and I thought USPA hates small dropzones. The new requirements for B and C license could be tough if you are at c182 DZ. 50 formation jumps with 10 being 4 way or larger when that is the total capacity of the jump ship. Can be hard to schedule all that at a small dropzone. Honestly, even at a larger Cessna dropzone it could be hard to get all these jumps in in only 200 jumps.



Well, you know, you could just jump at a real DZ with real aircraft. Living out in the boonies comes with some disadvantages... I agree with USPA's changes. The license requirements for C and D are too easy as it is, less the 50 9' accuracy jumps for the C license. Even with the changes as is, it's still not that hard to get the requirements done. Regardless of whether your local aircraft can support the requirements or not, there needs to be a requirement to prove some level of group skydiving competency. As it was, in theory you could have someone with a D license who has only a few group jumps outside of AFF and 490 some solos.

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A successful completion would be to complete at least one formation, you pick the formation. And, yes, AFF student jumps are indeed formation skydiving and they would count.
...

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director


I admittedly don’t know much, but if the goal of each license is to show some higher level of proficiency than the last, counting AFF jumps as FS jumps is a farce. You have two people holding on to a jumper, then in later levels you have one instructor most likely chasing someone around the sky while they perform flips and turns. That isn’t in the spirit of why the BSR was changed. What’s wrong with actually requiring people to get better before awarding them higher licenses? The verbiage is vague and I’m guessing that was done intentionally.

Zach Breaux

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Slimrn



A successful completion would be to complete at least one formation, you pick the formation. And, yes, AFF student jumps are indeed formation skydiving and they would count.
...

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

-------------------------------------
I admittedly don’t know much, but if the goal of each license is to show some higher level of proficiency than the last, counting AFF jumps as FS jumps is a farce. You have two people holding on to a jumper, then in later levels you have one instructor most likely chasing someone around the sky while they perform flips and turns. That isn’t in the spirit of why the BSR was changed. What’s wrong with actually requiring people to get better before awarding them higher licenses? The verbiage is vague and I’m guessing that was done intentionally.

Zach Breaux

----------------------------------------

There has been no BSR change. License requirements are in Section 3 of the SIM.

As far as AFF jumps counting as formation skydiving jumps, they technically do and certainly the release jumps where the student is required to hook back up with the instructor would fulfill both the spirit and the letter of the definition. I doubt that most skydivers actually count their AFF jumps towards the license requirements, but they can.

As stated previously, these changes were made to bring our licenses in line with the IPC/FAI standards. Our licenses exceed the requirements in other areas but were deficient in the areas changed.

Mike Mullins
USPA National Director

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"Well, you know, you could just jump at a real DZ with real aircraft."

Westerly,
I agree, larger aircraft are awesome. ;) Though, not everyone has the time to drive to that larger DZ and the money to do it with or the willingness to quit their jobs and move so that they can be right down the street from it. I love it, but this sport can be hard on our wallets and watches.

-JD-

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skyfox2007


"Well, you know, you could just jump at a real DZ with real aircraft."

Westerly,
I agree, larger aircraft are awesome. ;) Though, not everyone has the time to drive to that larger DZ and the money to do it with or the willingness to quit their jobs and move so that they can be right down the street from it. I love it, but this sport can be hard on our wallets and watches.

-JD-




Yup, it's an eight hour drive from where I live to the nearest Caravan DZ. 10 hours to an Otter. 14 hours to a tunnel. You don't know how lucky you are.

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And this is the farce, AFF jumps count but you can have a national champion who has done CRW and chooses that as a discipline doing some complex multi-point jumps that don't count.

You don't require a D license to compete.

The ease at which licenses are gained is in some part due to the ease at which some instructors/coaches sign off on items.

I'm all for increasing quality of jumps but lets not just bias it to FS/FF disciplines. People do other things now and set a standard.

An AFF jump is a training jump - the person in the middle does next to nothing apart from arch, remain altitude aware and pull. Perhaps a tandem will also count if they hold hands ?

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