Stuffing into centre cells... wtf?

[thetreehugger 0]

I just watched a video of a guy who offered a suggested "fix" of hard openings on sabre 1s by stuffing the 4 outer cells on each side of the canopy into the centre cell. It looks like it could create all kinds of trouble...? Is this some kind of "trick" that actually works? I'm never going to do this...just curious if anyone actually does this.

This is the video: https://youtu.be/-KpUJK_YtL8

[BurbleBoi 11]

Yes. It works.

Source: I jump a sabre1 120 in my WS rig. No slider pocket mod needed, smooth but positive and on heading openings.

Just ignore me.

[ninjagogo12 0]

Has anyone noticed the video says its a saber 1 yet the logo on the canopy is an icarus safire

[Westerly 61]

The most effective way to solve hard openings on a Saber 1 is to throw it in the trash.

[RMURRAY 1]

sabre1 can open great with a new dome slider. i have bought 3 from skyworks rigging,,,masterrigger1 here. then no need to roll or stuff anything. just pack it normally.

[peek 20]

Westerly

The most effective way to solve hard openings on a Saber 1 is to throw it in the trash.

You know that the original Sabre can be made to open quite nicely with a larger slider or pocket slider?

One source of information: http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm

[Westerly 61]

peek

***The most effective way to solve hard openings on a Saber 1 is to throw it in the trash.

You know that the original Sabre can be made to open quite nicely with a larger slider or pocket slider?

One source of information: http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm

Which is the whole point. Self-engineering your parachute because the OEM design doesn't work well is absurd. Would you find it acceptable to jerry rig the braking system on your truck if the OEM brakes dident work well?

[peek 20]

Westerly

Which is the whole point. Self-engineering your parachute because the OEM design doesn't work is absurd. Would you find it acceptable to jerry rig the braking system on your truck because the OEM brakes dont work? F*** no you wouldn't. You would send that scrap of iron right back to the dealer for a prompt refund. I am not sure why this would be any different.

Absurd? Well, I'm sure there are many of us that think that making a slider is not that big of a deal. And you know, some time after my study, many parachute designs other than PD had rather large sliders. So maybe there is something to that. (A pocket slider is another good option, and easier.)

I understand your point that manufacturers should design their parachutes to work well without modification, but abandoning a parachute and purchasing another is expensive.

[Westerly 61]

peek

***Which is the whole point. Self-engineering your parachute because the OEM design doesn't work is absurd. Would you find it acceptable to jerry rig the braking system on your truck because the OEM brakes dont work? F*** no you wouldn't. You would send that scrap of iron right back to the dealer for a prompt refund. I am not sure why this would be any different.

I understand your point that manufacturers should design their parachutes to work well without modification, but abandoning a parachute and purchasing another is expensive.

I wonder how much an ICU visit from a broken neck costs.

[peek 20]

Westerly

And the alternative of an early death because your home remedy dident work is a better option?

A large slider or a pocket slider solves the problem, period. There is no need to worry about death!

I suggest doing some more reading up on the subject. There is a lot of history to enlighten you.

[WV177RG 19]

That technique worked great packing my PD 230 (F-111 fabric) in the early 90's. Dealer advised against it for my Sabre 210 during the purchase process. My new canopy's PD manual confirmed that recommendation:

"Sabre Note
Sabres are designed for a slow-to-medium speed opening when packed as described in the P.D. manual - with each side of the nose rolled four complete turns towards the center. Do not tuck the nose into the center cells. The new airfoil design causes the center cells to form a pocket that can hold the rolls there during opening. Additionally, tucking the end cells into the center cells will result in unreliable opening times, with some very long snivels. Repeat: Do not do this."
(Twenty years later, some jumpers report it works for them.)

Having my rigger add a pocket to my slider resulted in smooth, staged openings during which I would swing upright and watch the rest of the deployment sequence. Appeared to eliminate the occasional hard opening on subsequent jumps. Opening distance increased to an average of 800' on my test jumps, so I revised my deployment altitude upward accordingly. (Just an average fun jumper. YMMV.)

[gowlerk 2,072]

peek

***The most effective way to solve hard openings on a Saber 1 is to throw it in the trash.

You know that the original Sabre can be made to open quite nicely with a larger slider or pocket slider?

One source of information: http://www.pcprg.com/hardop.htm


Westerly, you have very strong opinions for someone who actually has very little experience. Do some more research and talk to more people. Sabres were of a successful but somewhat pioneering design. They moved the ball forward quite a bit, but PD and everyone else learned some lessons with this generation of canopies. One of them was that larger sliders and slower openings were needed. Skydivers have been modifying parachutes for as long as there have been canopies to modify.

Quote

Westerly wrote:
Which is the whole point. Self-engineering your parachute because the OEM design doesn't work is absurd. Would you find it acceptable to jerry rig the braking system on your truck because the OEM brakes dont work? F*** no you wouldn't. You would send that scrap of iron right back to the dealer for a prompt refund. I am not sure why this would be any different.

Stuffing into the centre cell is old news. Just because you've never seen it before does not mean it is wrong. PD did not offer refunds on Sabers, nor should they. People loved them and coped with the opening. They still do. Your comparison to modifying truck brakes is so far out there that I have little to say other than if you expect that kind of guarantee find a different sport. Or better yet, do some reading about where skydiving came from.

[wolfriverjoe 1,449]

Back on topic...

Not me personally, but there was a guy at my old DZ who jumped a Sabre 150 that did this every time. He claimed the openings were significantly better when he did it.

No cutaways that I am aware of.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[rjklein4470 23]

I jumped a Johnathan before the stiletto's came out, and I would roll the cells and place them in the center cell. Later Tony sent me a pocket slider that worked really well.

I really liked that canopy.

[piisfish 136]

wolfriverjoe

Back on topic...

Not me personally, but there was a guy at my old DZ who jumped a Sabre 150 that did this every time. He claimed the openings were significantly better when he did it.

No cutaways that I am aware of.

i did exactly that on my Sabre 150

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[pms07 3]

Yeah, the notion that the original Sabre "didn't work" is absurd; It was one of the besting selling and longest on the market main canopy designs ever. Certainly it set the standard in its day. Personally, I have around 2000 jumps on Sabres, all with no modifications.

[keithbar 1]

Westerly

The most effective way to solve hard openings on a Saber 1 is to throw it in the trash.

. Rather than that you could give it to someone. Someone who realizes you don’t know what the hell your talking about

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .

[gowlerk 2,072]

pms07

Yeah, the notion that the original Sabre "didn't work" is absurd; It was one of the besting selling and longest on the market main canopy designs ever. Certainly it set the standard in its day. Personally, I have around 2000 jumps on Sabres, all with no modifications.

Yes the Sabre was the canopy all others were compared to. And now that role goes to the Sabre 2.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[tsalnukt 1]

.........yeah dude.....totally works.......

just curious, what kinds of trouble do you think it could cause?

[chuckakers 406]

thetreehugger

I just watched a video of a guy who offered a suggested "fix" of hard openings on sabre 1s by stuffing the 4 outer cells on each side of the canopy into the centre cell. It looks like it could create all kinds of trouble...? Is this some kind of "trick" that actually works? I'm never going to do this...just curious if anyone actually does this.

This is the video: https://youtu.be/-KpUJK_YtL8

I stuffed center cells with a Monarch, Excalibur, and other canopies. Never had a problem and it fixed the slam-bang openings. That said, I would never recommend it to others.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Rover 9]

ninjagogo12

Has anyone noticed the video says its a saber 1 yet the logo on the canopy is an icarus safire

If you listen the packer states quite clearly 7 sec into the video that the canopy is a Safire

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[councilman24 36]

[edit; Whoops, didn't see post above quoting PD.]Stuffing cells in the center cell predates the Sabre. We were doing it routinely in the 80's to slow down Strato Clouds and other early ram airs. Long before the guy in the video was born.In fact when the Sabre came out we were cautioned by PD NOT to do stuff the center cells even though other posters have said they do. PD was worried the wrap around the nose top skin (new design) would trap the center cells and delay opening. Of course the definition of an acceptable opening has changed since the Sabre came out. What is now considered a desirable opening was considered a malfunction (streamer) in the early 90's. Original Sabres opened how they were designed, in 200-400 feet. EXACTLY what I want when I get out at 2000'. I still jump an original Sabre, a couple in fact. I demoed a Spectre and should have cut it away it took so long to open. Getting out at 2000' as normal below the clouds was NOT a good idea on a one of the first Spectres out for demo in 1997. When it took 800' to open at terminal also I said no thanks.

Domed or pocket sliders, stuffing cells and other tricks to slow down an original Sabre only make it open more like later designs. There is nothing broke about the original Sabre design or slider. These techniques don't 'fix' it, they change it. For the worse in my opinion. It's the same reason my other main is a Triathlon.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[ninjagogo12 0]

That'll teach me to watch it at work with the sound down in stealth mode while i should be working lol

[Maddingo 21]

Canopies are compared to a Sabre 2... but not because Sabre 2 is the best design, far from that.

[Deimian 43]

Maddingo

Canopies are compared to a Sabre 2... but not because Sabre 2 is the best design, far from that.

"Best" is very subjective and very dependent on your needs. But it is certainly the best for a lot of people out there. Canopies are compared to Sabre 2 because it is probably the most common canopy out there, and its design is right in the middle point of a lot of compromises. You can use Sabre 2s for anything you want. But if your needs are specific then you need a specific canopy. Not necessarily better, but more specific, with a design less balanced and prioritizing those needs, sacrificing other areas.

PS: The original Sabre is a great canopy. Does it open harder than modern designs is is somewhat less efficient? Yes. Is it perfectly usable and safe nowadays? Yes. Does it improve with a larger slider? In my opinion yes. That's why I bought a new slider for mine when I had it.