Choosing a New Rig - What's Most Important?

[HPC 7]

When deciding on a new rig, what are the most important things that influence your final decision? You may select more than one but please keep it to just the most important. Please post in the thread to include anything that I might have missed.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[chuckakers 370]

1. function
2. comfort
3. nothing else

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[piisfish 135]

chuckakers

1. function
2. comfort
3. nothing else

you forgot matchy matchy colours with the rest of the gear

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[IJskonijn 38]

As already said, it needs to work and it needs to fit you properly. All the features, colours, trim and other crap on a rig won't help you one bit if the rig lands in a different place than you do.

Also, if the corners are so sewn in ("dynamic" corners) that the reserve freebag is having a tea party on your back after you punched it, that's no good either. There's no colour scheme in the world that looks good with lots of blood on it.

Only once those are all taken care of, then you can go to town with all the nice little features and gimmicks and colours that they offer.

[HPC 7]

As far as fit goes, that depends on the jumper getting the right measurements. Often they don't. If the factory screws up (and nobody's perfect) even with correct measurements then correcting the problem to the customer's satisfaction falls under "Customer Service" which is one of the choices in the survey. Customer service is not just answering dozens of questions before the sale, more importantly it's how they handle screwups after the sale.

Regarding the "tea party" comment you made (I'm sure I know what rig you're talking about) please read choice #14 which covers that. If a rig that has an issue is still doing decent business then that probably means one of two things - either customers don't do enough research to familiarize themselves with the problem or they're aware of the problem but have their priorities out of whack. That's one of the reasons I put that option in the survey, and the last time I checked that was, surprisingly, not high in the voting.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[IJskonijn 38]

I agree, the jumper him/herself need to be on top in terms of sizing and measurements, or find a capable rigger to help with that.

I'm not specifically referring to a certain type of rig (although I am aware of some problems with some rigs in that respect), but I'm also referring to getting the correct size. Overstuffing the reserve tray and/or the main tray is very unlikely to improve the openings. This is both on the jumper (to know what canopy type and size they want to jump) and on the manufacturer, to know what size rig conforms to what types and sizes of canopies. Pack volume might be good to know, but unless we can get a globally uniform and reproducible way to define and measure pack volumes, it isn't going to be useful.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

HPC

When deciding on a new rig, what are the most important things that influence your final decision? You may select more than one but please keep it to just the most important. Please post in the thread to include anything that I might have missed.

You forgot an important one. Website design. If I can't design my rig online I'm not going to buy one from them.

[skydude2000 3]

Absolutely. I just got my new rig a couple months ago, and I chose one manufacturer over another, because their online rig design tool was down for several months. The one I ordered from, their tool was redesigned and back up in a few weeks.

If I'm buying a brand new rig and spending thousands of dollars, I want to see EXACTLY what I'm getting before it shows up at my door.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[HPC 7]

I had thought about web design as a choice in the survey but I was already up to 15 choices in the poll and was hesitant to add more. However, I've visited every major rig manufacturer's website and agree that some websites (and more specifically, rig design programs) are excellent while others are mediocre at best. Some websites are laid out poorly and it's difficult to find specific information. Some rig design programs are very intuitive and easy to use while others are difficult to figure out and clunky.
However, since different monitors and screens will show colors differently and since actual fabric colors can be significantly different from what you see on the rig design program, I highly recommend getting color samples of Cordura, trim tape, and webbing from the manufacturer and lay them out on a table and experiment. Two colors that may look good on the monitor of your desktop, laptop or iPad may look much different when actual fabric samples are placed side-by-side.
You can see clearly which rig manufacturers have gone the extra mile in the design of their websites and rig design programs and which ones have put little thought and investment into theirs.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[rjklein4470 23]

Be careful with the marketing. Boutique small companies have to be very careful with the dollars. Would you rather have a pretty web page/social media, or better r&d/product.

I really liked Peregrine Manufacturing, but I did my own research. Also I tend not to follow the masses.

One of the reasons I found Fluidwings. Both companies are outstanding.

[HPC 7]

Personally, I've never followed the masses. I've always done my own thorough research, taken everything I could think of into account, and made my own decision. I'm the jumper you might see at a DZ who's the only one jumping a particular rig or canopy, but that's because I did my research and bought what I felt was the best item for me. I'll also defend my choice no end and back my choice with information and data. I never buy strictly on heresay.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[mathrick 2]

It's a complex topic with too many factors going into the "which ones would I even consider?" part I feel, but for me the questions of comfort, safety, and customer service (fun fact: I chose my container because there was a high-profile massive recall and their response was exemplary) happened to converge with the questions of looks, price and web presence. Ultimately I chose what I chose out of my final two choices because of my preference for semi-exposed over enclosed design, MARD availability, better price and a nicer colour scheme, but I'd be totally comfortable jumping and recommending the other one as well. In fact, if I were to get an enclosed design, that's what I'd get, Sandy really knows his stuff. And I don't say that just because the rigger I trained under happens to be a fanboy of his :)

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[HPC 7]

Sounds like you chose a Vortex over the Curv and RPC location was the deciding factor. Both are excellent rigs and are, in fact, at the top of my list in their respective RPC location categories.

What's right isn't always popular and what's popular isn't always right.

[Westerly 61]

rjklein4470

Be careful with the marketing. Boutique small companies have to be very careful with the dollars. Would you rather have a pretty web page/social media, or better r&d/product.

For a company who almost exclusively sells product through online sales, an obsolete website would be a horrible choice. In this day, a professional looking online presence is an absolute must, and for a company who's front-line presence is their website (such as all rig manufacturers), it's absolutely critical. Companies who do not embrace and utilize tech die. Any first year freshmen of any business school can tell you this.

Building a solid website is not half as expensive as you think it is and the profit made on a few dozen rigs would be more than sufficient to cover the costs. I agree with the other guy, if I cant build my rig online and see how well it looks, I am out. For someone as expensive as a container, I want to know what it's going to look like and with modern tech in 2018 there is absolutely no reason to expect anything less. I chose my last rig manufacture in part because of how professional looking their website, user manual and everything else was and because their customer service seemed a bit better than the other guys. It was not the main factor, but it added influence. It shows attention to detail and a higher level of professionalism than the other guys which is something I expect from a product that saves my life.

[DBCOOPER 1]

I can make a web site for selling rigs and never made or sold a rig before.Cyber bullshit. How about going to a gear store and talking to someone about the product that your about to bet your life on and spend a couple of grand on. Would you buy a car based on advertising and a web site. No you would go look at it and test drive it. How about going to a boogie and talking to the manufacturers and looking at the options and quality of their product, even demo it. And if you can't do either of those things, talk to the people where you jump and look at their gear and talk to them about their opinion of their gear. Then go online and fine tune what you think you want. Buying a rig based on the quality of a web site makes absolutely no sense. I can just picture you guys walking around the DZ head down staring at your phone.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Deimian 43]

I think you are ignoring the fact that most people don't live anywhere close to a gear store that has rigs from every manufacturer out there in stock, just to show them to potential customers. Even if you go to a boogie, you would have just a few rig manufacturers there. And what if the boogie is in 5 months, but you want to buy it in 2 weeks? Talking to people of your area is obviously a good thing, but that means that you are limited to a small fraction of choices and to the local bias.

Seeing it in person is obviously the best, but not always possible. In this time and age having a decent website is a must, whether you like it or not. Comparing it with cars is non-sense. In a small town you can have tens of car dealers from tens of manufacturers. That doesn't happen in skydiving, sorry.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

DBCOOPER

I can make a web site for selling rigs and never made or sold a rig before.Cyber bullshit. How about going to a gear store and talking to someone about the product that your about to bet your life on and spend a couple of grand on. Would you buy a car based on advertising and a web site. No you would go look at it and test drive it. How about going to a boogie and talking to the manufacturers and looking at the options and quality of their product, even demo it. And if you can't do either of those things, talk to the people where you jump and look at their gear and talk to them about their opinion of their gear. Then go online and fine tune what you think you want. Buying a rig based on the quality of a web site makes absolutely no sense. I can just picture you guys walking around the DZ head down staring at your phone.

You are missing something important. You can look at a manufactures gear if someone at your DZ has it. Maybe even try it if the sizing is right. If all of that is great you still need to go online to order it.

[Bluhdow 31]

As someone who works for a manufacturer I think this is critical. Always get your hands on the gear you're looking at investing in and trusting your life to.

Good websites do not equate to good product, in skydiving or in any other business for that matter. We are not buying medical services, or financial services, or products that come from a highly regulated and scrutinized industry (comparatively). Any manufacturer can say whatever they want in their marketing materials to compel you to buy.

Talk to customers...not sponsored athletes...and get unbiased opinions from people who have paid for their gear. And even then take it with a grain of salt. Everyone likes to feel like they bought the best gear possible, and a good way to reassure themselves that they made a good decision is to get others to follow in their footsteps.

Apex BASE
#1816

[Westerly 61]

DBCOOPER

I can make a web site for selling rigs and never made or sold a rig before.Cyber bullshit. How about going to a gear store and talking to someone about the product that your about to bet your life on and spend a couple of grand on. Would you buy a car based on advertising and a web site. No you would go look at it and test drive it. How about going to a boogie and talking to the manufacturers and looking at the options and quality of their product, even demo it. And if you can't do either of those things, talk to the people where you jump and look at their gear and talk to them about their opinion of their gear. Then go online and fine tune what you think you want. Buying a rig based on the quality of a web site makes absolutely no sense. I can just picture you guys walking around the DZ head down staring at your phone.

Some of the resources you list are not available to many skydivers. There are no gear shops anywhere close to where I live. The best I can do is see what other people at the DZ have, and that is exactly what I do. I bought my first rig based in part on what I saw at my DZ. However, even if I am jumping at the largest DZ in the world during the largest event in the world, I will never find the exact color/ fit combination I want in person which is why it's important to have a website that allows you to build and view what your completed rig will look like.

[LeeroyJenkins 2]

DBCOOPER

I can make a web site for selling rigs and never made or sold a rig before.Cyber bullshit. How about going to a gear store and talking to someone about the product that your about to bet your life on and spend a couple of grand on. Would you buy a car based on advertising and a web site. No you would go look at it and test drive it. How about going to a boogie and talking to the manufacturers and looking at the options and quality of their product, even demo it. And if you can't do either of those things, talk to the people where you jump and look at their gear and talk to them about their opinion of their gear. Then go online and fine tune what you think you want. Buying a rig based on the quality of a web site makes absolutely no sense. I can just picture you guys walking around the DZ head down staring at your phone.

Oh and I would buy a car from a website. It is called Tesla.

[mathrick 2]

DBCOOPER

I can make a web site for selling rigs and never made or sold a rig before.Cyber bullshit. How about going to a gear store and talking to someone about the product that your about to bet your life on and spend a couple of grand on. Would you buy a car based on advertising and a web site. No you would go look at it and test drive it.

Here's the thing: we live at a time where most rigs are roughly comparable and there aren't really any death rigs being sold out there (save for one or two exceptions, but even those have people swearing by them). By and large, whatever you get is going to be a fine product. Your choice is really going to be based on multiple small nudges rather than one huge deal breaker. And if I can't see what I'll be getting and can't have a decent, easy to use and find explanation of all the features and options of the product on their website, then who's to say the manufacturer has stayed up to date on all the other important pieces of tech that have advanced massively since the 1990s?

It's still important to get with a good dealer, especially since many manufacturers will more or less refuse to sell directly, and it's fine to do it that way, but the only reason to be buying something that's got a shit web presence is because either it's a local one-person enterprise and you know the manufacturer personally, or know a dealer who can make up for the manufacturer's online deficiencies. For people who don't have the access to either, not having a sensible website in 2018 is kind of a really fucking huge deal, and rightly so. Why should I be dropping 3 grand on something where the order form is a badly scanned photocopy of a form printed out once in the 1995, and fret over whether I got any of the 23 colour boxes wrong, if I can go elsewhere and have a nice mockup that shows me exactly what it's gonna look like and ensure every single one of these 23 boxes is what I intended it to be?

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[DBCOOPER 1]

I guess if you have a monitor that exactly matches the color swatches available from a dealer or manufacturer you'll get exactly what you think you will get. At best you'll get a general idea what it will look like... and if you that concerned about what color it will be you should probably get you hands on the samples.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Westerly 61]

DBCOOPER

I guess if you have a monitor that exactly matches the color swatches available from a dealer or manufacturer you'll get exactly what you think you will get. At best you'll get a general idea what it will look like... and if you that concerned about what color it will be you should probably get you hands on the samples.

I dont think anyone goes online to build a rig and expects what they get in the mail is going to be absolutely identical in every measurable metric to what they saw online. However, being able to view the rig in a general sense online is huge. Otherwise I am trying to theorize what something might look like in my head and that's not going to be even close to accurate.

Like you said, anyone with no skill can build a website. So if a manufacturer can’t even build a reasonable website, how the hell can I trust them to build a parachute system intended to save my life? It's a matter of simple professionalism here. These guys are not selling smoothies. They are selling gear that saves lives and when you operate at that level the expectations are very high and the customers are going to expect that their gear manufacturers are professional in every way.

[DBCOOPER 1]

It seems you can't even figure out what size canopy's fit in containers from information from web sites, and fashion seems to be more important to you than function. Best of luck with your web browsing.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[Bob_Church 7]

Ongoing support. Strong Enterprise has very good support, but the other factor in going with my Quasar 2, which I love is that the dzo/rigger where I jumped had one for himself AND his girlfriend jumped one. If anyone is going to know about any issues that comes up he would. This doesn't happen everywhere but a lot of times most of the people at a DZ jump a certain brand and being around people who are knowledgeable about the rig you jump seems like a good idea to me.