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20_kN

Semi-Stowless Bags? Mirage?

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I bought my first rig, a Mirage G4 M6 (yea, big I know). Anyway, I was thinking of going with their semi-stowless bag. I think the M6 still has four locking stows, but the rest of the line is figure-8ed into the pouch.

Is it worth it to get the Mirage semi-stowless or go with one of the fully stowless magnetic bags? Or just stick with a standard D bag? I am pretty novice to packing at this point, but overall find that having to double-stow a crap load of stows takes me all day and I find it hard to keep all the lines of equal lengths when I have to double stow a ton of stows (single stowing is much easier for me). As such, I figure a semi stowless will make things a lot easier as I'll have four stows instead of eight or nine.

Ideas?

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DO NOT get a fully magnetic stowless bag. They cause out of sequence be deployments. Semi stowless is definitely the way to go.

Also not all semi stowless bags are equal. The rigging innovations, chutingstar and aerodyne varieties have a built in failure mode because they use magnets.

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Mirage main containers have a somewhat unique shape. Their bags are sewn to fit that space correctly. Third party bags are not. This goes for all containers. If you want a bag that fits get it from the maker who has the pattern. Generic bags will often work fine but they are "one shape fits all."

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Would a UPT U-Stow bag be ok?

I ask because I have a Mirage, I'm thinking of going semi-stowless as well and deciding which bag to purchase. UPT bags obviously have slightly different shapes, but should fit well enough. Have heard great things about the UPT bags in all sorts of containers, but never really heard anything about the Mirage ones. Mirage's higher price and sub-par customer service play a role as well.

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Would a UPT U-Stow bag be ok?




Probably. But what size would you order? If you want to do that you should find someone with a similar canopy to yours in a Vector and see how it fits. You can do this without disconnecting anything. But the Mirage definitely has a different shape from a Vector.

You should also be aware that UPT changed the design of their stowless back recently. If you order one you might not get what you think you will get.

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Fair enough. For me specifically it would be a Sabre 2 135, in a container made for a 150. With the original bag it fits well, with the UPT one not sure.

Having spoken to UPT they would like to know the internal measurements of the Mirage bag, so they can determine which U-Stow would be the most appropriate. They also have all of them in stock, while Mirage would have to make it specifically.

Anyone has any experience with the Mirage semi-stowless? I'm sure it's great, but never really heard any comment, good or bad, about it while everyone seems to rave about the UPT one.

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gowlerk



You should also be aware that UPT changed the design of their stowless back recently. If you order one you might not get what you think you will get.



That is a good point actually, made also by UPT themselves over the phone. Not sure about the new design as I haven't really seen one yet. Thoughts? (use it a lot for wingsuiting)

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gowlerk

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Would a UPT U-Stow bag be ok?




Probably. But what size would you order? If you want to do that you should find someone with a similar canopy to yours in a Vector and see how it fits. You can do this without disconnecting anything. But the Mirage definitely has a different shape from a Vector.

You should also be aware that UPT changed the design of their stowless back recently. If you order one you might not get what you think you will get.



I have a question for your Rigger's hat... Can anyone put a different bag in a manufacturer's container without violating some manufacturer or master rigger type rule?
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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I have a question for your Rigger's hat... Can anyone put a different bag in a manufacturer's container without violating some manufacturer or master rigger type rule?



Ha! I don't know and I don't care. Probably some rigger will jump in and say it's against some rule unless a Master Rigger does it. But is is a very common practice. Use common sense and if you are not sure it's compatible ask someone who knows.

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gowlerk

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I have a question for your Rigger's hat... Can anyone put a different bag in a manufacturer's container without violating some manufacturer or master rigger type rule?



Ha! I don't know and I don't care. Probably some rigger will jump in and say it's against some rule unless a Master Rigger does it. But is is a very common practice. Use common sense and if you are not sure it's compatible ask someone who knows.



Sorry, your profile says you have a Rigger's ticket, so I "assumed." Anyway, I did get a PM saying that its not against the rules.
Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

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BIGUN

***

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I have a question for your Rigger's hat... Can anyone put a different bag in a manufacturer's container without violating some manufacturer or master rigger type rule?



Ha! I don't know and I don't care. Probably some rigger will jump in and say it's against some rule unless a Master Rigger does it. But is is a very common practice. Use common sense and if you are not sure it's compatible ask someone who knows.



Sorry, your profile says you have a Rigger's ticket, so I "assumed." Anyway, I did get a PM saying that its not against the rules.

Oh, I am an active rigger. That does not mean I know the implications of all the rules. I'm not a lawyer!

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lyosha

DO NOT get a fully magnetic stowless bag. They cause out of sequence be deployments. Semi stowless is definitely the way to go.

Also not all semi stowless bags are equal. The rigging innovations, chutingstar and aerodyne varieties have a built in failure mode because they use magnets.



Cause out of sequence deployments or are susceptible to them? I get what you are saying though. That was a question I had actually. It seems like a hard yank via the PC with a large canopy in a magnetic bag could cause bag strip. :S

How do the magnets on the semi-stowless bags reduce their safety? They still have standard locking stows. If the flap were to come open in deployment, the bag would still be secured closed by the locking stows until line tension, correct?

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DO NOT get a fully magnetic stowless bag.



+1

We see a fair number of fully magnetic bags around here, many of which are taken out of service. Suffice it to say there is a reason manufacturers still keep at least 2 locking stows on their designs.
=========Shaun ==========


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lyosha

"Reduce safety" is not necessarily the proper wording to use, since we're being picky of exact wording.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDpCSxErk_E

That did not look like a semi-stowless bag. It looked like a full mag bag completely stowless. My question was about magnets on the semi-stowless bags since Lyosha said that the semi-stowless bags with magnetic cover flaps have built in failure modes. I am wondering how magnets vs tuck tabs on the stow cover/ flap has a built-in failure mode.

I ended up ordering the Mirage since it's made for my rig, it's just more curiosity at this point. There are some people at my DZ that have semi-stowless bags with the magnetic flaps.

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That was the rigging innovations semi stowless bag...



Shooting from memory here, but doesn't he Rigging Innovations Semi-stowless bag have the line stow pocket sewn closed on the bottom and both side, similar to a reserve freebag? A gentleman with a Curve had a bag with that configuration. Basically took the same amount of time to stow the remaining lines as packing a reserve. :S
=========Shaun ==========


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The design of this fully magnetic deployment bag nearly eliminates any potential for an out-of-sequence deployment. Has been jumped in nearly every discipline including wingsuiting and subterminal with no issues. Packs fast.....packs simple....works simple. Unmatched quality.

fully magnetic, stowless deployment bag.jpg

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20_kN

I bought my first rig, a Mirage G4 M6 (yea, big I know). Anyway, I was thinking of going with their semi-stowless bag. I think the M6 still has four locking stows, but the rest of the line is figure-8ed into the pouch.

Is it worth it to get the Mirage semi-stowless or go with one of the fully stowless magnetic bags? Or just stick with a standard D bag? I am pretty novice to packing at this point, but overall find that having to double-stow a crap load of stows takes me all day and I find it hard to keep all the lines of equal lengths when I have to double stow a ton of stows (single stowing is much easier for me). As such, I figure a semi stowless will make things a lot easier as I'll have four stows instead of eight or nine.

Ideas?



My .02 for what is it worth. Someone with your experience or lack there of should be focusing on getting better packing with ALL the stows, and yes, DOUBLE stow them all. once you've got a firm grasp of packing consistently then maybe perhaps take the game to the next level...

And by no means am I any type of packing wizard or sky god. I only have 475 jumps with almost half of them with a WS. Flying the dress kind of makes you refine your packing game! Among other aspects of flight. Happy Packing and remember, it's not a race ;)

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