Proper way to seal reserve

[gb1 3]

I was asked by a junior rigger if I had any documentation on how to seal a reserve other than the new rigger manuals. I thought that many years ago I saw a military description of how to route the thread as well as the "legal" knot to tie under the crimped seal. There are many methods in use and most work fine. Does anyone out there know of any military reference or FAA service letter etc. that describes the proper way to seal a reserve? Not just your method or opinion. Thank's GB1

[IanHarrop 41]

The FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook has a description of the process with pictures starting on page 5-30

Edit: I think the copy of the manual I looked at is 2005 so the page is may be wrong

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[pchapman 278]

A fairly standard method is shown in the FAA Parachute Rigger Handbook (faa-h-8083-17) that's out on the web. Either the 2005 or 2015 versions. Any difference of opinion are welcome.

(I personally don't bother to knot the thread at the end, after all the threading is done through the lead seal -- a well pressed seal seems to hold the thread in place fine, with never any evidence of a thread pulling out.)

I see that Poynters II, p297 doesn't specify an exact method, just showing a small picture of a typical result and saying "in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendation for that type of parachute".

[BIGUN 1,230]

https://parachutistonline.com/safety_training/keep_an_eye_out/reserve-seal

ETA: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/.../prh_change1.pdf

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gb1 3]

2005 is a "recent" manual. Where did they get it from? Sealing parachutes has been in use by the military for at least 65 years that I know about. They have a document and procedure for everything they do. In the 1970's, I remember a seeing a document showing the knot and procedure. Since then it has been a free for all, including myself. It is a minor issue, but I wanted to show the junior rigger the proper document at safety day when I see her. Once again, does anyone have access to a document showing this procedure, not from recent manuals or opinions. I do thank you all for your replies. FB #143

[gb1 3]

Thank's BIGUN. Good article you dug up. The FAA link says "page cannot be found". Appreciate your reply. SCR-1581

[pchapman 278]

Ok, you want further back.

I can do Poynter's I, section 7.92.2. Attached.
And that shows pin and cone.

If you want some original military manual... I'll let someone else step up.

I guess we riggers could get into some discussions about seals.
I don't recall the details, but I don't think the FAA specifies much, leaving it to the manufacturer -- but I haven't checked the FAR's. Then if the manufacturer doesn't specify much, it leaves it vague. But if one tries to not use a lead seal, the FAA objects even if the manufacturer's instructions allow it. "We won't tell you what to do... unless we don't like it."

(UPT for example in a current Vector III manual just says "seal", with a fuzzy picture of a typical seal on a rig. No instructions. Hmm, the ends of the thread aren't knotted, unlike in that Parachute Rigger's Handbook version.)

[BIGUN 1,230]

My apologies, I was trying to copy the link from Google that led directly to the manual, but I gues you have to go to the FAA page to download the 30MB manual.

https://www.faa.gov/search/?omni=MainSearch&q=reserve+parachute+seal

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[pchapman 278]

And for reference here's what it says in the Parachute Rigger's Handbook from 2015 -- see attached scans.

[gb1 3]

Although a minor issue, still seems to be a grey area. Thank's guys. NSCR-310

[gb1 3]

When I received my senior riggers certificate in about 1973, I had to tie a surgeons knot completely crushed by the lead seal as taught by Dan Latchford at Midwest Parachute Sales and Service in Novi, Mi. He had showed me a pamphlet with the specs. Our study guide was Air Force and Navy manuals. Survival Equipmentation I and II. If the new accepted method is to leave the knot outside the seal as it appears in the new manual, do we buy that? Who wrote that manual? Did not mean for this thread to go this far. If there is no reply from Terry, the document I remember must not exist. Thank's for your time. GB

[gowlerk 2,103]

Quote

If the new accepted method is to leave the knot outside the seal as it appears in the new manual, do we buy that?

The text says to position the knot within the seal. Same as you, and I were taught.

[Jordan82 0]

make like pick cha!!?
https://www.flyaerodyne.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IconManual052017_online.pdf
page 32 and 36.
opinions?
...

[gowlerk 2,103]

Opinion? Too much work. I'll keep doing what the text says:

Quote

Seal with rigger’s thread
and lead seal per applicable
regulations.

Someone may have developed this method to ensure that the lead seal can not get caught in the grommet.

[linestretch 0]

Wow....I've been rigging for a bit and never knew about a knot being part of the seal procedure. I've never tied one (and it seems like a complete pain in the ass...but of course I've never done it so how would I know). Like Peter said above, a good pressed seal will hold the thread and I've never seen any get pulled out (none of mine anyway).

my pics & stuff!

[Justincblount 4]

According to the written test, the correct answer is "according to the manufacturer's instructions", of which there are none. My DPRE showed me a couple of methods. I'm happy to conform with the method in the handbook, though I seldom consult the handbook, as it's not peer reviewed.

[mark 107]

4 hours ago, Justincblount said:

I seldom consult the handbook, as it's not peer reviewed.

If "peer review" is your standard, your rigger library must be small indeed.  Poynter's was not peer-reviewed, nor are manufacturer instructions.

--Mark

[Justincblount 4]

What? I heard Poynter's manual was peer reviewed. That was sort of my basis for considering it "the bible" of rigging.

[ChrisHoward 8]

21 hours ago, Justincblount said:

What? I heard Poynter's manual was peer reviewed. That was sort of my basis for considering it "the bible" of rigging.

I don't know about "peer reviewed" but there is a long list of credits in the manual the Poynter gives recognition to.

[gb1 3]

1 hour ago, ChrisHoward said:

I don't know about "peer reviewed" but there is a long list of credits in the manual the Poynter gives recognition to.

The last time I spoke to Dan was at the Midwest Skydivers Reunion in 2014 in Michigan. He mentioned that he did not write that manual, he just compiled information that was already out there.

[koppel 4]

The BPA method has been my preferred method of sealing for many years now.

It causes no extra pull force when pulling the ripcord unlike the common method found in Poynters etc

BPA Reserve Sealing Method.pdf

[riggerrob 602]

On 1/25/2019 at 3:03 AM, ChrisHoward said:

I don't know about "peer reviewed" but there is a long list of credits in the manual the Poynter gives recognition to.

Sandy Reid invited me to “peer-review” the first version of the FAA manual.

I “peer-reviewed” Eric Fradet’s manual ..... all 600 pages, in French ..... and found only one minor variation from Poynter, military manuals, etc. The French tend to use the term “pod” for all types of deployment bags.