CURV vs Vector 3

[Jleon 0]

Trying to decide between the two. My understanding is that the Curv is substantially more comfortable. The Vector being a 20 year old design has a solid reputation. Can anyone that has had it for a while, tell me how it's doing longevity wise. I see super old vectors still being jumped.

[gowlerk 1,902]

I love the Curv, but still no MARD available. Only talk. Get a Vector with a Skyhook. My 2 cents. Comfort? Yes, the Curv is awesome. But really it only makes a difference while you are on the ground geared up.

You will have a very hard time wearing out any new container unless you abuse it or do several hundred jumps a year for many years.

[Jleon 0]

According to RI, the MARD should be out in the next couple of months.

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[TommyBotten 0]

They've been saying that for at least four years now.

My two cents are also on the Vector, albeit I'm a bit biased since my last three rigs have all been vectors. In addition to them being one of the more freefly friendly rigs, they also have some of the best customer service I've experienced for any skydiving related company.

[Monosa 0]

The RSL design of the Curv does not include a collins lanyard. That may be also relevant for the proposed MARD system.

[Maddingo 21]

My experience with buying a container is... everybody is cheering for their own team. Till this date I haven't seen a single evidence one is better over the other. All tso'd rigs are good. The only thing you should really care for are technical problems, such as the Wings reserve tray that in some cases did not extract properly.

The main crowd will cheer for the Vector because it's the "coolest" and oldest design. But it's price tag (like any other "top tier" brands) is trough the roof.

[9XOUTOF10 1]

My experience with buying a container is... everybody is cheering for their own team. Till this date I haven't seen a single evidence one is better over the other. All tso'd rigs are good.

I don’t get it isn’t that comment a contradiction if not who is the main crowd and where do I find them.
In my “ opinion “ they’re 3 top dogs in the industry and in my “opinion “
2 are only worth looking at and 1 has such a long wait time renting until I receive it is not cost effective.
Then again that is just me opinion.

[degeneration 5]

Maddingo

The main crowd will cheer for the Vector because it's the "coolest" and oldest design. But it's price tag (like any other "top tier" brands) is trough the roof.

Comparing prices on chutingstar, I always get the Vector coming out notably cheaper than most other brands once loaded with main options on all. Several hundred dollars cheaper than a Curv, adn that's with Skyhook in the Vector and no equivalent in the Curv...

Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

[Jleon 0]

So the Curv MARD will not be as safe as the Skyhook?

[shadeland 5]

Jleon

So the Curv MARD will not be as safe as the Skyhook?

None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards. The Lanyard disconnects the non-RSL side riser in event the RSL side gets prematurely released/breaks. That hasn't proven to be a problem in the field as far as I know (though that doesn't mean it won't be).

IIRC (and I could be wrong) UPT won't license it to non-SkyHook MARDs.

Curv is doing test jumps with their MARD currently. I saw them testing it last week at the SDAZ Christmas Boogie. It was, as MARDs are, effin' fast.

[mark 102]

Jleon

So the Curv MARD will not be as safe as the Skyhook?

Full disclosure: I've been working with RI on its MARD. (Thanks, Mr. Shadeland, for the mention! RI plans for its MARD to be fully and easily retrofitable to its entire current sport product line, and, we hope, also be retrofitable to some other recent RI models.)

Also, skydiving is not safe. Even with a MARD.

The Collins Lanyard helps in those rare situations where the RSL-side riser breaks below the RSL attachment. The lanyard is intended to cut away the opposite-side riser, so neither main riser is attached if the RSL pulls the reserve pin because of a broken main riser. But how many broken RSL-side risers have you seen in the last 20 years (not counting the mis-assembled ones, of course)?

In exchange for this feature, the Collins Lanyard introduces the possibility of a new malfunction mode: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=3331658.

The Collins Lanyard is a required, proprietary part of the Skyhook system. No other MARD incorporates a Collins Lanyard, including designs already on the market such as Wings Boost, Strong Sky Anchor, or Mirage Trap. Also, Collins Lanyards are not part of the Airborne Systems MARD design -- and Airborne Systems is the world's largest manufacturer of military freefall systems, a market that dwarfs the civilian market.

There are many reasons why you might choose one rig or another, but I don't think the availability of a Collins Lanyard -- or even a MARD in general -- should be high on the list. Your reserve is designed to open in 3 seconds or 300 feet, depending on certification standards. In exchange for added complexity and new malfunction modes, a properly functioning MARD speeds up the opening by at most 100 feet.

-Mark

[Deimian 43]

shadeland

None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards.

That's not true. There are at least 2 manufacturers that have a pin-based MARD with Collins lanyards. Sife and SWS.

In my opinion the Curv is a top tier rig. I like their harness design and the thought they put on it, the design of the main flaps closing system and the extra details like the "sure grip" tape on the handles. I dislike the design of the reserve flaps, the lack of lateral "deflectors", the fact that you can't order without chest rings and the lack of Collins lanyard. That's why I chose Vector for my current rig, but I still consider the Curv among the best rigs in the industry. I'd love it if UPT copied some of the Curv features and viceversa.

[Deyan 31]

Deimian

***None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards.

That's not true. There are at least 2 manufacturers that have a pin-based MARD with Collins lanyards. Sife and SWS.


Maybe what he meant to say is :" Non of the other MARDs on TSO certified rigs..."

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[Deimian 43]

Deyan

******None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards.

That's not true. There are at least 2 manufacturers that have a pin-based MARD with Collins lanyards. Sife and SWS.


Maybe what he meant to say is :" Non of the other MARDs on TSO certified rigs..."

Maybe. But I think he would be wrong anyway, Sife is TSO certified:

https://www.austrocontrol.at/jart/prj3/austro_control/data/dokumente/TD_AOT_ACE_300_2017-04-19_1304378.pdf

http://www.sife.at/tests

SWS has been tested according to TSO-C23d, but can't be certified due to the lack of a FAA partner in Ukraine.

[rjklein4470 23]

I was in this same situation, and I chose the Peregrine Manufacturing Glide with the Ace Mard system.

I got my custom rig in less than six weeks, quality is outstanding, and Dave was amazing to deal with.

I would take a look.

[busichio 0]

I had a Curv for 3 years, and now have a vector (since Oct 2017). If you're not maxing out the vector, both rigs are comfortable in my opinion. A loaded Curv is way cheaper than a loaded vector by hundreds of dollars. I think it was 2600 vs 3450 if I remember correctly.

The only reason I moved to a vector was that my Curv was too small, even though it was made for me. I did send it back to be resized and it still was small. I also made the mistake of getting a VC2 which is a very short container being 6'0. The reach for my PC was too high on my back.

The Curv VC2 is much smaller than my V320, even though the Curv holds bigger canopies. Shoot me a PM if you have any questions.

[Deyan 31]

Deimian

*********None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards.

That's not true. There are at least 2 manufacturers that have a pin-based MARD with Collins lanyards. Sife and SWS.


Maybe what he meant to say is :" Non of the other MARDs on TSO certified rigs..."

Maybe. But I think he would be wrong anyway, Sife is TSO certified:

https://www.austrocontrol.at/jart/prj3/austro_control/data/dokumente/TD_AOT_ACE_300_2017-04-19_1304378.pdf

http://www.sife.at/tests

SWS has been tested according to TSO-C23d, but can't be certified due to the lack of a FAA partner in Ukraine.

Non of them is TSO certified. The situation with SIFE is the same like with SWS. Tested according to TSO bla-bla is not certified or approved under TSO. Nice way to trick somebody to think a specific product is TSOd. So yes, his statement would've been correct!

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[Deimian 43]

I don't understand. The Sife website says explicitly that it is certified under TSO:

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SIFE harness and container systems have a type certification according to TSO-C23f

Isn't "have a type certification" the same as "certified"? Doesn't Austria have a "FAA partner" able to delegate certification on local authorities? Isn't "Austro Control" allowed to certify such thing? Honest questions, I don't know, but it looked obvious to me. Maybe it's all mambo-jambo?

[Deyan 31]

Not the same. All they have is a lockal approval from Austo Control. I will say that one more time.... SIFE does not have an FAA or EASA TSO

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[Deimian 43]

I stand corrected then. Thanks for the clarification, this one was really misleading.

[Unstable 8]

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There are many reasons why you might choose one rig or another, but I don't think the availability of a Collins Lanyard -- or even a MARD in general -- should be high on the list. Your reserve is designed to open in 3 seconds or 300 feet, depending on certification standards. In exchange for added complexity and new malfunction modes, a properly functioning MARD speeds up the opening by at most 100 feet.

I think this is a really good point. I see different levels of risk levels.

a. No RSL, No Mard
b. RSL, No Mard
c. RSL & MARD

Everybody talks about how much safer they are with a MARD, and I think they are comparing condition 'a' to condition 'c', which I think we can agree that data shows a major improvement. However, what is the difference between 'b' and 'c'? 100 feet?

On another point, we have seen evidence in the industry of excessive bag extraction forces with containers with closed corners. Also, 'snively' reserves seem to be coming into popularity. Are MARDS then being sold as a fix for poor design in some cases?

=========Shaun ==========

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi Unstable,

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Are MARDS then being sold as a fix for poor design in some cases?

One would hope not.

However, there are two 'standards' to consider. The TSO req'ments and what the marketplace expects.

The TSO req'ments are well known for anyone willing to do some reading/research. The marketplace standards are all very subjective.

I would hope that no one relies upon any MARD to save them at a low altitude; some have been known to disconnect during activation.

IMO one advantage of a MARD is that it greatly reduces the potential of becoming entangled with the reserve p/c and/or reserve bridle line.

Jerry Baumchen

[shadeland 5]

Deyan

******None of the other MARDs (RAX/ACE/Boost) have Collins Lanyards.

That's not true. There are at least 2 manufacturers that have a pin-based MARD with Collins lanyards. Sife and SWS.


Maybe what he meant to say is :" Non of the other MARDs on TSO certified rigs..."

Actually, I was unaware that they had colins lanyards. My understanding is it was a patented thing (I could easily be wrong there), and UPT wouldn't license it without the SkyHook. That understanding is either incorrect, or the non-US location makes the patent invalid or unlikely/difficult to enforce.

[Deyan 31]

shadeland

or the non-US location makes the patent invalid or unlikely/difficult to enforce.

^^ This ^^

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[shadeland 5]

Deyan

*** or the non-US location makes the patent invalid or unlikely/difficult to enforce.

^^ This ^^

Speaking of non-US manufacturers, there's a company (Avalon) out of Bulgaria that does license the SkyHook (no TSO I believe). That's the 5th SkyHook equipped manufacturer that I know about in the sport market.

* UPT (designer)
* Aerodyne
* Sunpath Javelin
* Vortex
* Avalon