clear cable

[jerolim 7]

This is c/p from fb group (as nobody answered there): Is it allowed to replace clear cable on Atom Legend Tandem or Vortex2 Student static line (with direct bag), with yellow cutaway cable? Also what are benefits of clear cables over yellow and black teflnon cables? And where to get this clear cable? It is clear cable without metal core.

[chuckakers 370]

jerolim

This is c/p from fb group (as nobody answered there): Is it allowed to replace clear cable on Atom Legend Tandem or Vortex2 Student static line (with direct bag), with yellow cutaway cable? Also what are benefits of clear cables over yellow and black teflnon cables? And where to get this clear cable? It is clear cable without metal core.

Personally, I would never replace a component on a rig with something different without consulting the manufacturer. There are too many (potentially deadly) possibilities that folks in the field simply don't know about. It would be easy to get well-meaning, seemingly educated advice that could kill you.

When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[skytribe 16]

I may be off a little but just from recollection the clear and yellow stuff are different materials.

Yellow (used in cutaway cables) is Lolon coated cable if i remember correctly.

The clear cable is definately a different material and I think is PVC coated galvanized aircraft cable.

I would be cautious about changing them out as the yellow cable is a lot softer and easier to get nicks and bur's in. Hence flexpins on tandems take some abuse over time. I would generally say stick with original materials or at least discuss alternative with them before changing anything.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Quote

It is clear cable without metal core.

I've never seen any material like this without cable inside of it. Pictures?

[jerolim 7]

Quote

Personally, I would never replace a component on a rig with something different without consulting the manufacturer. The are too many (potentially deadly) possibilities that folks in the field simply don't know about. It would be easy to get well-meaning, seemingly educated advice that could kill you.

When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it.

It is problematic to get in touch with someone from PdF rigging department about this. They are hard to reach,..

[jerolim 7]

Quote

The clear cable is definately a different material and I think is PVC coated galvanized aircraft cable.

No this is cable withut metalic core. It looks like grass trimmer plastic cable. Check attachment.

[jerolim 7]

Quote

I've never seen any material like this without cable inside of it. Pictures?

It is in attachment.

[pchapman 261]

Well that's new to me -and likely quite a few others in North America.
Although I once saw a late 1970s rig, long out of service, with a white cutaway cable like that -- no metal core. That was scary.
(Since it came from back in the days of more experimentation with cutaway cables, and poorer plastics technology.)

[gowlerk 1,903]

Obviously no one here can give you permission or take responsibility for what you decide. What I can do is tell you what I've seen other flex pins made of. Which is either clear coated steel cable, or alternately a piece of yellow lolon coated cutaway type cable folded in half so that two pieces go through the closing loop. (one alone would not be stiff enough) In both cases the cables had a loop in the end formed using a Nicopress swage with a lanyard larksheaded onto the loop.

[piisfish 135]

Try asking on Facebook, GeMaPar is the French rigging group

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[chuckakers 370]

jerolim

Quote

Personally, I would never replace a component on a rig with something different without consulting the manufacturer. The are too many (potentially deadly) possibilities that folks in the field simply don't know about. It would be easy to get well-meaning, seemingly educated advice that could kill you.

When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it.

It is problematic to get in touch with someone from PdF rigging department about this. They are hard to reach,..

I wouldn't conduct business with a parachute manufacturer that is difficult to contact for assistance. Maybe that's why I've been a loyal Rigging Innovations customer exclusively for 32 years.

Given that we're talking about expensive life-saving equipment there is no excuse for anything less than exemplary customer service.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[jerolim 7]

piisfish

Try asking on Facebook, GeMaPar is the French rigging group

Thank you - I did that (via google translate ).

[pchapman 261]

chuckakers

I wouldn't conduct business with a parachute manufacturer that is difficult to contact for assistance.

Indeed, but what else can one do, if one one has previously bought or has to maintain gear from a company that is no longer responsive...

PdF were once innovators in the sport, and pretty big in Europe. Not being in Europe I don't remember the story, but they now no longer really seem to use their original name, and are a tiny part of a large conglomerate with parachutes (civilian & military) as just one small portion. If I drill down deep in Zodiac's website I can find Atom rigs etc only within "Zodiac Aerosafety Systems (Parachutes & Protection), Personal Parachute Systems".

[Deyan 31]

chuckakers

I wouldn't conduct business with a parachute manufacturer that is difficult to contact for assistance. Maybe that's why I've been a loyal Rigging Innovations customer exclusively for 32 years.

Given that we're talking about expensive life-saving equipment there is no excuse for anything less than exemplary customer service.

PdF gear was extremely well build and it was relatively cheap when it was sold for French Franks. That's why there are so many of them around. I don't remember their customer support ever being good, but now since they no longer manufacture sport gear, is between exceptionally bad to non existent. A year ago I sent them an e-mail requesting a lineset. Got my answer 8 months later. It's so bad that if any of my Atom jumping customers looses his/her freebag and RPC, will just tell them to buy another rig.

To the OP, those clear cables were chipping very badly if my memory is correct. I'd stay away from them.

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[rmarshall234 13]

Your Profile doesn't list that you are a rigger so given that, I'd say the answer is "no". If you are asking for a certificated person however, I would suggest going with chuckakers' recommendation...."When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it." That is great advice and I practice it all the time. If you can't get ahold of the manufacturer then once again, the answer is no.

[jerolim 7]

rmarshall234

Your Profile doesn't list that you are a rigger so given that, I'd say the answer is "no". If you are asking for a [I]certificated person [/I]however, I would suggest going with chuckakers' recommendation...."When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it." That is great advice and I practice it all the time.

I have updated my profile - I am master rigger in Croatia, and in Germany (Fallschirm Techniker). I am well aware of "call manufacturer for all concerns" principle. But what I am asking is :
- does anybody got some info from manufacturer if it is allowed to replace with other type of material ? I guess not.
- What is this material and where one could get it?
- When it must be replaced ?
- Why it is used ?

I noticed there is no general rule for different manufacturers. I can see all types of cables on different rigs. I know that clear ones with metal core (aviation PVC coated) is most problematic, as coating can be broken and it can stay in closing loop. There were at leas 4 fatalities (2 incidents) with tandems with this cables. Also we had fatality on student rig there in Croatia (on static line jump) because of this issue.
Problem with yellow cutaway cable is it can be suched into size 0 grommet, so if there are 2 cables of same length problem is solved.
I kinda, prefered black teflon cable, but if there is a superior material for high angle bends I want to learn all about it.

[mark 102]

jerolim

- does anybody got some info from manufacturer if it is allowed to replace with other type of material?

In the US, this is allowed since it is not forbidden by regulation. It would be an alteration of the main canopy/container, which can be done by a master rigger without needing approval from the manufacturer or the FAA.

-Mark

[piisfish 135]

Jerolim, on the Facebook thread there is the contact of a French shop who stocks PdF parts.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[c_dog 1]

chuckakers

***

Quote

Personally, I would never replace a component on a rig with something different without consulting the manufacturer. The are too many (potentially deadly) possibilities that folks in the field simply don't know about. It would be easy to get well-meaning, seemingly educated advice that could kill you.

When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it.

It is problematic to get in touch with someone from PdF rigging department about this. They are hard to reach,..

I wouldn't conduct business with a parachute manufacturer that is difficult to contact for assistance. Maybe that's why I've been a loyal Rigging Innovations customer exclusively for 32 years.

Given that we're talking about expensive life-saving equipment there is no excuse for anything less than exemplary customer service.

Classic DZ.com non-answering waste of time answer! Thanks man!!

[jerolim 7]

piisfish

Jerolim, on the Facebook thread there is the contact of a French shop who stocks PdF parts.

I will try contacting them - thanks.

[chuckakers 370]

c_dog

******

Quote

Personally, I would never replace a component on a rig with something different without consulting the manufacturer. The are too many (potentially deadly) possibilities that folks in the field simply don't know about. It would be easy to get well-meaning, seemingly educated advice that could kill you.

When in doubt about anything concerning gear, ask the guy who built it.

It is problematic to get in touch with someone from PdF rigging department about this. They are hard to reach,..

I wouldn't conduct business with a parachute manufacturer that is difficult to contact for assistance. Maybe that's why I've been a loyal Rigging Innovations customer exclusively for 32 years.

Given that we're talking about expensive life-saving equipment there is no excuse for anything less than exemplary customer service.

Classic DZ.com non-answering waste of time answer! Thanks man!!

Says the guy who just posted a non-answer.

In case you didn't notice, my first post on this thread was a direct "answer" to the OP's specific subject.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX