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maxhogg

Dekunu One vs AON2 X2+

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***Apologies if info is already out there - I searched but couldn't find anything***

So there is now concrete info out there about these two digital altis, and one is available for pre-order, so I am interested in people's views as comparisons. My thoughts below - as you'll see as a UK jumper I'm leaning towards the X2+, but keen to hear from others as to the pros and cons of each. (Full disclosure: I know and have jumped with Arthur who runs AON2 so am influenced by that a little).

Dekunu One
Pros
- available for pre-order now, due for delivery February
- features, tech specs etc confirmed in detail

Cons
- for a UK jumper, delivery, import taxes and charges etc will make it £400 plus
- the big one for me: Dekunu are clearly using the units for data harvesting, which they will sell on. I'm not sure I want that.
- a bit of a brick in size terms

X2+
Pros
- slimmer form factor
- projected to be cheaper (£300)
- some additional features eg letting you know if your current flight path will allow you to get back to the dz
- for a UK jumper, delivery, imports etc much cheaper
- company already has a product on the market, which works brilliantly (and with great customer service - Arthur swapped my audible for a louder unit no questions asked)

Cons
- much less concrete info at present
- projected for delivery in March, but these timings have slipped a little in recent months
- could have the same drawback in terms of data harvesting (Arthur if you read this and know what your plans are it'd be great to know)

Hmmm as I read this back my choice is clearly for the X2+, the post reads like an advert for it! (I promise it's not). Anything I've missed?

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Hi Max!

What skytribe said makes sense. It's too early to tell how either will perform. I do have some idea about the X2 since I'm involved in the development but I'm biased of course :)
I do have to say though, AON2 will never sell users' data to a third party, nor restrict a device to a particular user, and we'll give users as much control over their device and their data as much as possible. We definitely have to comply with UK and EU rules about data protection (not sure if there's an equivalent in Australia), but the basic premise is your device, your data.

We make our revenue on hardware sales, so it would be rather silly to alienate our customers with draconian data policies. Our business model does not involve selling or monetising data whatsoever.

Other companies, such as Facebook do, whether it's right or wrong is probably off-topic for this discussion. Simply, it just isn't our business model. Hope this clarifies things. :)

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For me a critical issue is how reliable and robust these 2 altis are going to be. There are a lot of new features on them but if they break easily (and that kind of screen can break easily) or fail to work properly (more complexity can potentially make them more error prone at basic tasks) then all the new stuff is secondary.

Also: Dekunu One, cons: they want to build games for the climb up. I really think that is a very bad idea. Just another way to get complacent skydivers distracted. We don't need that.

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Quote

What skytribe said makes sense. It's too early to tell how either will perform. I do have some idea about the X2 since I'm involved in the development but I'm biased of course Smile



And my comment was not a slam on either manufacturer - just saying wait and see how the released products end up before asking for an opinion on them.

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skytribe

Let me just say this is a stupid question - you are asking for speculation on two units which are not even available.

If you want opinion on units - try asking about units which are available and hence people will have used and had opinions on based upon actually using.



Maybe I'm going to get some speculation skytribe, but I'm also asking about whether people have more info than I've picked up. The Dekunu is available for pre order and factors such as their use of my data is a consideration for whether or not I pre order it. Arthur's info about AON2's use of data reassures me and has convinced me to wait and order one of the X2+ units when they become available (if I can get one, I know he won't have many to start with).

So maybe you don't like the question, but maybe also check yourself a little - to call it stupid was blinkered at best.

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Asking for opinion on two devices which are not available is still mere speculation.

I still think your better to ask for opinion on devices which exist and are in use. Wait a few months and then you can ask the question on these two devices.

How about giving me opinions on the Iphone 12 or Galaxy s12 phones ? They will be released in 3 years time. I'm sure you can actually pre-order one now if your really want.

Or perhaps lets ask skydivers about there opinions on the Sky Systems C6 helmet..... Really ask opinions on products that are real and available - stuff that is in development is really simply speculating as features get cut or change or sometimes products simply dont appear in the end ( ala C6 helmet).

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As some one who was planning on ordering the Dekunu One, I've changed my mind after reading through their terms and conditions. The following are red flags to me (personally):

*"Please refer to Dekunu Support at info@dekunu.tech to learn more about any support offered by Dekunu in connection with your Device."
- They don't give any details about the support they plan to offer.

*"Dekunu may only provide warranty support for Devices manufactured by Dekunu that are located in a supported country."
-And those countrys are???

*"We warrant the Device against defects in materials and workmanship under ordinary consumer use for 12 months from the date of original retail purchase."
-They only stand by their very expensive product for 1 year??? Alti-2 and L&B are both 2 year warranties.

*"Dekunu collects, stores, uses and discloses large volumes of data, gathered by the Device, software or individual user profiles and linked applications"
- Why do they need to sell my data? If I'm paying almost $500 for a new altimeter I'd like to be able to have control over my data.

*"The Device will be activated with limited functionality as described at point of sale and additional features will be activated with future software updates."
- To me, this means the product isn't actually ready and it's been rushed to release. It's not going to be able to do everything they're saying it will when it's released.

*"Some features and functions will only work while the device has internet connectivity."
- They make no mention of which features and functions require internet connectivity

*"The Device must be used exclusively by the individual whose Dekunu profile is activated on the Device, use by other individuals including but not limited to non conforming individuals is a breach of contract and voids any support or warranty."
- Are you fucking kidding me? If I let my friend borrow my altimeter it voids the warranty and you'll no longer support the product???

*"Please carefully read any instructions that come with the Device, including instructions that may be available online."
- There are no available instructions online to read before ordering

*"Battery life for your Device, as described in any Device description page, will depend on device settings, usage, and many other factors."
-So not even a ballpark of how long I can expect a charge to last???

*"You are responsible for connecting the Device to the internet to ensure data stored on your Device is uploaded"
-Why do I need to upload my data at all? Which brings me to my main concerns:

-What happens to my data and what functionality will be lost if they go out of business and can't keep their servers running?

All in all, thanks but no thanks.

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What's wrong with you guys?
Both products haven't been released and you are staking up to prepay for something no one has seen. And we are not talking about 100 bucks.
Don't you remember what happened to "the best fullface helmet ever"?
So many people got ripped off! That's what happened! I'm not saying that this is the case here. All Im saying is that you should keep your hard earned money in the bank, until the products are out on the field for at least a year. And then if you are still feeling happy to pay 500 bucks for an altimeter, go ahead and get yourself one.
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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When it first came out their T&C's had something about "You cannot resell this altimeter without approval of Dekunu" and "Transfer of ownership...may incur an administration fee" however in the current terms it's now gone. They can change the terms and conditions without notice, so maybe keep checking as they might become more favourable if you want to buy it. However, it could go the other way without notice too...

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Deyan

What's wrong with you guys?
Both products haven't been released and you are staking up to prepay for something no one has seen. And we are not talking about 100 bucks.
Don't you remember what happened to "the best fullface helmet ever"?
So many people got ripped off! That's what happened! I'm not saying that this is the case here. All Im saying is that you should keep your hard earned money in the bank, until the products are out on the field for at least a year. And then if you are still feeling happy to pay 500 bucks for an altimeter, go ahead and get yourself one.



Exactly !!!!

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Deyan

What's wrong with you guys?
Both products haven't been released and you are staking up to prepay for something no one has seen. And we are not talking about 100 bucks.
Don't you remember what happened to "the best fullface helmet ever"?
So many people got ripped off! That's what happened! I'm not saying that this is the case here. All Im saying is that you should keep your hard earned money in the bank, until the products are out on the field for at least a year. And then if you are still feeling happy to pay 500 bucks for an altimeter, go ahead and get yourself one.



If there are no early adopters there will be no innovation. Don't discourage early adoption.

I will strongly consider forking over some cash for one of the devices come start of skydiving season. Because innovation is good and not evil, and new products need financial incentives to survive "the first year".

If the company goes bankrupt and doesn't deliver - that's what credit card protection is for.

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I guess you didnt order a C6 then....

When a product is out and tangible and able to order and get hold of one, then you can give a true opinion on the device.

No problem with innovation and new companies creating new products but talk to me when you have a product I can buy and not an idea. Ever invested in a kickstarter which didnt deliver ?

I dont have a problem with either company or either product that is going to be delivered but merely saying wait until the products materialize before giving opinion on a product. That way it is based upon reality.

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To each their own!

I really have problem with paying for an idea! The fact that the companies need cash to get started is not my problem. Shouldn't be yours either.
Innovation? Dude, this is an altimeter! No matter how many video games they put in it, no matter what kind of useless info you get after every jump, it's an altimeter. It shows the altitude you are currently on, so you know when to separate, deploy and set up your landing pattern. Just for comparison the smart phone on which I'm writing this post cost 200 €!!!
I fully understand that there are people who want to have the newest and coolest before anybody else and that's fine. Let them test it for you. Meanwhile buy the cheapest altimeter you find and a tablet. You will appreciate the second one during weather holds.

500 bucks for an altimeter phhhh! Better makes coffee too and predict the numbers from the lottery !
"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

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Reading the last post

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4781573;page=unread#unread


Pre-order, massive ( 2 year) delay and didnt meet the requirements. That is why waiting for actually tangible products is definately the way to go. Although this is a different product - it simply outlines the risks of pre-ordering.

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I don't blame you for feeling alienated by the C6 mess. I didn't order one and am better for it. I have ordered other things that haven't materialized in Skydiving though (for a price for which I could buy several C6 helmets).

You should take reasonable precautions. However, my words stand. It's one thing to advocate reasonable precautions and not invest in new products yourself, it's another to advocate blind abstinence and encourage others from doing so.

Advocate responsibility, accountability and preparedness not abstinence please. :)

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lyosha

I don't blame you for feeling alienated by the C6 mess. (for a price for which I could buy several C6 helmets).

:)

. Really and where would you buy them ? :P
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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Deyan

To each their own!

I really have problem with paying for an idea! The fact that the companies need cash to get started is not my problem. Shouldn't be yours either.
Innovation? Dude, this is an altimeter! No matter how many video games they put in it, no matter what kind of useless info you get after every jump, it's an altimeter. It shows the altitude you are currently on, so you know when to separate, deploy and set up your landing pattern. Just for comparison the smart phone on which I'm writing this post cost 200 €!!!
I fully understand that there are people who want to have the newest and coolest before anybody else and that's fine. Let them test it for you. Meanwhile buy the cheapest altimeter you find and a tablet. You will appreciate the second one during weather holds.

500 bucks for an altimeter phhhh! Better makes coffee too and predict the numbers from the lottery !



^^^ This!

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i think i saw nice feature of Dekunu that it shows how far you swoop.. i guess not too hard to calculate with pecise altimeter anf gps. would that be a similar feature in AON2? i find only 2 features of those altimeters really interesting. That one that i mentioned and the othar is showing ground speed in aircraft. Would be even better to show separation in seconds. if design smart devices like this would be nice to combine this with info on direction and wind speed at different altitudes - that is the other feature i would find interesting.

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