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Hunterbeav

Sabre 2

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Hi everyone...looking for some input..I've been out of the sport for over 10 years and will be buying some gear in the spring. I did my recertification training and did a few jumps a few weeks ago.
Just a little history....I started jumping in 92 and my last chute was a sabre 190..my exit weight back then was 250 or so. I've been researching the sabre 2 210 my exit weight will be around 235 to 240.
I liked the flare and the flying characteristics on my old sabre. I'm wondering if the sabre 2 is about the same as the original sabre. From what I'm reading the openings can be long snivels with end cell closure and some line twist from time to time. Would appreciate any input from some seasoned sabre 2 pilots. Thanks Jim

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Sabre 1 on heading occasionally hard. Sabre 2 much softer but never the fuck on heading just my opinion and you can tame the openings on a saber one with the correct slider and pack job
i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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Hunterbeav

Hi everyone...looking for some input..I've been out of the sport for over 10 years and will be buying some gear in the spring. I did my recertification training and did a few jumps a few weeks ago.
Just a little history....I started jumping in 92 and my last chute was a sabre 190..my exit weight back then was 250 or so. I've been researching the sabre 2 210 my exit weight will be around 235 to 240.
I liked the flare and the flying characteristics on my old sabre. I'm wondering if the sabre 2 is about the same as the original sabre. From what I'm reading the openings can be long snivels with end cell closure and some line twist from time to time. Would appreciate any input from some seasoned sabre 2 pilots. Thanks Jim



Sabre 1s are interesting canopies. They're truly rectangular (no tapering of the leading or trailing edge, like Sabre 2s, Safire 2/3s, Pilots, etc.). They have a bad (probably well deserved) reputation for opening hard, sometimes catastrophically so.

Sabre 2s don't have a lot in common with original sabres from what I recall. I think John Leblanc (IIRC) said Sabre 2s might as well have been Stiletto 2s.

So to answer your question: What are you looking for? Softer openings (many necks, shoulders, and bones appreciate that), good flare, fast turns, etc. Or are you looking for consistent openings, a canopy that you don't have to think about, etc.

There's a lot of options now from PD and others depending on what you're looking for in a canopy.

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If this helps, here's a video of my Sabre2 170 loaded around 1.3 opening up. Normally it don't open with this much of a twist, but it usually doesn't open on heading. I always have to pump the risers to bring the slider down as well. Love everything else about the canopy though. As other have said the flare is very strong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jht065RBA8M&t=25s
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it

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Hi Shadeland....thanks for taking the time to respond....I'm looking for all of it, Softer openings ( my old bones would definitely like that), good flare, fast turns and consistent openings.
You'r right about the sabre 1 having hard openings....I used to roll the nose to get softer openings....and even then a little head down open were tuff....I've had a shoe come off in opening.

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Sabre2 is a fine canopy. As a broad generalization; it sacrifices heading performance for flight performance. Openings are soft, but rarely on heading (with "normal" packing and reasonably controlled body position on opening) On the other hand you will get very good flare characteristics and top of class canopy flight performance at the wing loadings you are describing.

Other options you might consider: Pulse, Storm, Silhouette, Pilot, Safire2, etc.
Jump some canopies in the size range you are looking for, demo what you can't borrow. The gear has changed quite a bit since the early 90's. Most of the canopy design improvements have been geared towards the high performance wings, but a lot of the design changes applied to those wings are being incorporated into the more docile 9 and 7 cell sport non x-braced wings coming to market.
You might even find that canopy flight is so much more fun than it used to be that you enjoy it more than as a means to recover from the skydive ;)

Check out a canopy control course from Flight 1 or Windmiller or one of the many options out there. Like many disciplines in the sport now, you're expected to pay for good training as opposed to picking up tips around the bonfire and canopy control is no different.
Most of the information wont be earth shattering, but it gives you a focused time to apply new principles to a new wing and get videoed feedback from a canopy coach.

Welcome back,

-Harry
"Sometimes you eat the bar,
and well-sometimes the bar eats you..."

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I've had 5 Sabre2s...currently have (2) 190s in my rigs. They do open off heading sometimes but the flight characteristics and powerful flare more than make up for it. Never line twists for me. The end cells sometimes inflate slow but ALWAYS inflate. I never give them a second thought. Love my Sabre2...
P.S. I have jumped lots of other canopies to see whats out there...won't trade for any of them. Blue skies!!!
Chad B Hall
Woo hoo!
My goal is to make every jump a fun and safe one. Blue skies!
Some of my videos...

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Normally it's not that bad, but it usually moves around a little. That landing was a 3 mph crosswind, but there was plenty of flare to make it a soft landing.

The performance of the canopy is amazing, which still being a sane choice for someone who doesn't want an elliptical high performance canopy.

There's a reason PD has sold 20,000 of them
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it

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I still jump Sabre 1's and Triathlons I don't like 800' openings. If you want a parachute to open now then you'll need to stay with one of the older designs. All the newer ones take too long to open for me. But I want to be able to get out at 2000'. Everyone is opening higher and have higher minimum exit altitudes than when you stopped. My DZ does hop and pop runs at 5000'.:S

But I'm an old fart.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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Hunterbeav

Hi Shadeland....thanks for taking the time to respond....I'm looking for all of it, Softer openings ( my old bones would definitely like that), good flare, fast turns and consistent openings.
You'r right about the sabre 1 having hard openings....I used to roll the nose to get softer openings....and even then a little head down open were tuff....I've had a shoe come off in opening.



I think one of the problems with the original sabre was the slider: If it didn't do its job no rolling of the nose would fix the hard opening.

I've seen Sabre 2s wack people pretty hard every now and then (of course any canopy can wack you, but Sabre 2s did it more frequently than Safires or Pilots). For you I might recommend a Safire 2. They have really soft openings that are well staged and usually on-heading. I haven't had much problems with end-cells on them, either. Safire 2s and Crossfire 2s, they're like the Bob Ross of openings. Slow, gentle, and very comfortable.

The flare on the Safire 2 though you'll want to do some up-high flares with a wrap to make sure you get the best flare out of them. Like pilots, they seem to be susceptible to brake lines that are too long. The power-spot on the flare is deeper than a Sabre 2, so if your brakes are too long you might miss some flare. The best way I know of to find it is to pull high and flare and I see what it takes to stall (for the last Safire 2 I flew it was two wraps), and I'll use one less wrap to flare.

They're not as aggressive, turn-wise, as a Sabre 2, but at 1.1 wing loading the difference I think is minor.

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Quote

Sabre 1 on heading occasionally hard. Sabre 2 much softer but never the fuck on heading just my opinion and you can tame the openings on a saber one with the correct slider and pack job




I kept my Sabre2 for about 1100 jumps (loaded at 1.4) and really enjoyed it. I only had 2 hard openings (when I was inexperienced at packing a new ZP canopy and was experimenting with psycho/roll packing.). Always, I mean ALWAYS gave me on-heading openings. However, pumping the end cells open was standard procedure for every jump. :)
=========Shaun ==========


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I have a Sabre2 170, loaded about 1.15:1.

It opens nicely, as long as I pull the sides of the slider out. I had some issues with hard openings, and had it suggested to do that. It helped a lot.

Opening headings are something of a crapshoot. Sometimes it's on heading, more often it's a 45-90 degree turn. Sometimes its more, but hardly ever more than 135 or so. Line twists are rare. I used to get brake fires every so often, but I have switched stowing my brakes to have the line going down go inward rather than outward and that has eliminated it (so far anyway).

It's fun and "sporty" to fly. Toggle and riser input are all pretty responsive. Flaring and landing is pretty nice. Flare is powerful enough to "pop up" a few feet if I overdo it. Flat enough glide that I can get back from a 'longish' spot when needed.

As noted, the Sabre (original) and Sabre2 are competely different canopies.

If you really liked your old Sabre (original), keep in mind that they are still out there. Wingsuit guys like them. Things can be done to tame the opening if needed. Slider mods are typical. Pocket sliders, domed sliders and bigger ones are things that I have heard of being done.
"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

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Thanks Joe....I thought about finding a sabre 1, but I'm gonna go with the new....right now I'm gonna look for a use container and reserve and put a new main in it....really leaning towards the sabre 2....I'm gonna try to demo a few different mains and make my final decision that way.

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Good plan demo demo demo everything try pd. Try aerodyne. Try fluid wings. Try Icarus. Worth the money then you can make an informed decision B|

i have on occasion been accused of pulling low . My response. Naw I wasn't low I'm just such a big guy I look closer than I really am .


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I had Sabre 2 in 230, 190, 170 and 150. At exit weight of 230 - 270
The openings depend somewhat on the pack job.

The 170, loaded at 1.6 will turn closed end cells in a very fast spiral. I usually can't wait for them to open by themselves.

The 190 at 1.3 had the best openings, no end cell closures and on heading (it was in a rig for 190-230; loose but safe fit).

I also had a 170 Sabre, VERY DIFFERENT than a Sabre 2.

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timrf79

I had Sabre 2 in 230, 190, 170 and 150. At exit weight of 230 - 270
The openings depend somewhat on the pack job.

The 170, loaded at 1.6 will turn closed end cells in a very fast spiral. I usually can't wait for them to open by themselves.

The 190 at 1.3 had the best openings, no end cell closures and on heading (it was in a rig for 190-230; loose but safe fit).

I also had a 170 Sabre, VERY DIFFERENT than a Sabre 2.



At what wingloading do you think it had the best flare?

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